Vinicius Jr

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Post by titosantill on Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:34 am

what should he improve? he's 18, the aim should be to work on everything, there's a lot to improve on. i don't want to use the word "improve", as we haven't even found out what he's great at, at the top level yet. the plan should be to work on everything, and all these guys are young so they have time. at 18, he has 5 years to shed the diamond in the rough tag. same with odegaard. if by 23 there's no indication of growth or ability to command a starting spot, then they're out completely. they're still young and still learning, one just hopes for their sake they'll be placed in the right environment to learn

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:37 am

i really liked his speech in castillan, it was good. he is already practicing his spanish, huge portuguese accent but that's expected. I bet in 3 months he is fluent unlike bale lol

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Post by Freeza on Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:02 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:i really liked his speech in castillan, it was good. he is already practicing his spanish, huge portuguese accent but that's expected. I bet in 3 months he is fluent unlike bale lol


Bale still asking where the library is.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:11 am

Tito, you’re ignoring the fact that a lot of the mega stars eg Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Raul, etc etc were “developed” much younger than 23. Who knows for sure but either Vinicius or the Brazilian kid coming next year, just maybe will be ready to go before 20.

That essentially is the bet that Flo has made. I say we give Flo and team some space to assess this talent and formulate the best plan for his aclimatization / development!

Perhaps it is just what we have heard, staying at Madrid, playing some with big team and some with Castilla. If he hasn’t shown enough by end of year, then you loan him out and start the same process with the other Brazilian kid!
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Post by titosantill on Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:27 pm

not everybody is ronaldo messi neymar and not every kid has the same mentality raul had at 17. they're young, they need time to grow physically and mentally, not every teenager that can dribble the ball is a prodigy. he needs time patience and most importantly the right environment to grow, and where he can learn the right habits and develop a winning mindset

the transition to learning spanish from portuguese (taking into account brazilian portuguese is a litte different) is relatively easier from english to spanish...that's still no excuse for bale considering steve mcmanaman was already quite fluent in his second year with us. i'm not deep into the linguistic thing. if bale can stay fit and give us great results i could care less if all he can say is 'si'
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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:34 pm

It seems like he is committed to staying at RM this season, whether in Castilla, or getting bit part games for the first team. At first I was against this (thinking it best to send him on loan immediately), but the more I think about it the more I am okay with it, especially since Vinicius himself wants this.

This will give the coaches a better chance to evaluate his ability in house, and if they want him to prove himself in a first team (outside of RM) before making an impact then he can go on loan next season.

He is still very young, and one season of Castilla/minimal first team is not going to destroy his development.
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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:37 pm

Tito, they difn’t sign these kids for peanuts. They paid a large fee because they believe they are the next Neymar. It’s up to them to show they are (or not)
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Post by Thimmy on Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:48 pm

Don't underestimate Bale. I'm sure he's learnt how to say 'hospital' and 'it hurts" in Spanish, by now.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:54 pm

It’s pretty incredible how little spanish he knows after all the time he has been in Spain. Makes one wonder how he survives on pitch, his teammates nor coach don’t speak to him in english?
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Post by Thimmy on Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:58 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:It’s pretty incredible how little spanish he knows after all the time he has been in Spain. Makes one wonder how he survives on pitch, his teammates nor coach don’t speak to him in english?


I once watched an interview with him, where he says that he understands Spanish very well, he just doesn't speak it for whatever reason. A team mate chimed in and confirmed that he understands everything they say to him. Seems a bit odd, but I assume he's not confident in his ability to speak Spanish. I would post the link to the video here if I could remember where I found it, but I can't remember where I watched it.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:22 pm

Understanding a language (written and verbal) is typically a lot easier than speaking it yourself. I can understand Spanish very well, but speaking I’m quite slow. Besides that point, language on the pitch is pretty easy/universal. I grew up playing with Spanish speaking players, though I wasn’t in a Spanish speaking country. Mostly all I needed was “cambio,” “toca,” and “rapido.”
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Post by titosantill on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:02 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Tito, they difn’t sign these kids for peanuts. They paid a large fee because they believe they are the next Neymar. It’s up to them to show they are (or not)


that's on the club for taking a risk on spending based on potential, those name you mentioned ronaldo messi neymar raul etc... only neymar was signed (by barcelona) for a huge fee (which in turn messed up rossell), and santos didn't sign him for anything at the beginning. vinicius is a kid, its ridiculous to laud the same expectations on him as one would an established player.....same with odegaard
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:16 pm

He's neither Ronaldo nor Messi. You can quote me later on this.

Just another unproven Brazilian teenager who has no business being in Madrid for the time being.

This club has built a reputation of going only after established world beaters. It's an approach that makes your rivals fear and envy you, the neutrals respect you, and the trophies rain down on you like missiles. This policy of betting solely on potential is doomed to fail because it rarely ever bears fruit, and only unambitious clubs follow it.

Florentino has made the biggest U-turn in history. He used to be a ruthless businessman with extremely, inhuman high standards. Now, he's buying Rodrigo and Vinicius and sticking to Benzema up top.

He hasn't made any major signings since 2014 and he has been relatively dead in the transfer market for three years in a row. No one questioned him because he kept on winning major trophies. But now his squad is ageing and he has just let his best player go. If he doesn't get off his lazy, cheap ass now and get the necessary signings pronto, he should get vetoed out and banished to the ninth layer of hell.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:42 pm

what are you talking about DoC?

"This club has built a reputation of going only after established world beaters"
this is patently false lmao. you want to know what other 18 years old teenagers this club has signed in the past 10-15 years?

Marcelo
Higuain
Ramos
Varane

all of them are now world class, 3 of those guys are 4 times CL winners with Madrid and cemented starters and club captains. If one of Rodrygo or Vinicius can achieve that with us, we will be pretty damn happy. I dont even mention Asensio who might have been a bit older but he is another kid we took a chance on and he delivered big time in CL for us.

So no, there hasnt been any u-turn, or any change of policy. We have always combined signing young players, with growing castilla players and signing star names.

You guys need to start realizing that money doesnt grow on trees, clubs are not forced to sell us their players and not all players dream to play for us and would drop their current club just because we come knocking...

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Post by Unique on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:47 pm

i still find it crazy how these young players sign for madrid tbh. they have little or no chance of making the first team and just waste 3-4 years.

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Post by Unique on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:51 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:what are you talking about DoC?

"This club has built a reputation of going only after established world beaters"
this is patently false lmao. you want to know what other 18 years old teenagers this club has signed in the past 10-15 years?

Marcelo
Higuain
Ramos
Varane

all of them are now world class, 3 of those guys are 4 times CL winners with Madrid and cemented starters and club captains. If one of Rodrygo or Vinicius can achieve that with us, we will be pretty damn happy. I dont even mention Asensio who might have been a bit older but he is another kid we took a chance on and he delivered big time in CL for us.

So no, there hasnt been any u-turn, or any change of policy. We have always combined signing young players, with growing castilla players and signing star names.

You guys need to start realizing that money doesnt grow on trees, clubs are not forced to sell us their players and not all players dream to play for us and would drop their current club just because we come knocking...
as if you believe that. Laughing money growing on trees and madrids ability to sign any player they want is the reason you became a madrid fan in the first place. dat glory rofl rofl rofl

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:53 pm

Dont @me you are a shit poster, whom i basically have 0 interest in interacting with lol. get lost

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Post by Unique on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:05 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Dont @me you are a shit poster, whom i basically have 0 interest in interacting with lol. get lost
yes but you know i speak the truth rofl rofl

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:17 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Dont @me you are a shit poster, whom i basically have 0 interest in interacting with lol. get lost
yes but you know i speak the truth rofl rofl
Dont @me you are a shit poster, whom i basically have 0 interest in interacting with lol. get lost

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Post by Unique on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:33 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Dont @me you are a shit poster, whom i basically have 0 interest in interacting with lol. get lost
yes but you know i speak the truth rofl rofl
Dont @me you are a shit poster, whom i basically have 0 interest in interacting with lol. get lost
@nick

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Post by Thimmy on Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:04 am

@Unique wrote: as if you believe that. Laughing money growing on trees and madrids ability to sign any player they want is the reason you became a madrid fan in the first place. dat glory rofl rofl rofl


If my dad hadn't impulsively decided to bring home a cable TV set with foreign sports channels, and Fernando Redondo hadn't decided to mesmerise me with his majestic, almost condescending movement and ball control, I probably would have support Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal, like every single one of my friends and their parents in primary school did. Hardly anyone here knew who Real Madrid or Barcelona was back then.

Times change. One moment, Chelsea are an overachieving village club spearheaded by the likes of Gianfranco Zola and my fellow countryman, Tore Andre Flo. In the next, they're signing Ballon d'or winner, Andrej Shevchenko and consistently fighting for top 3 spots in the prems. I suppose we can thank the shallow, Galacticos policy and star power of Florentino Perez for making La Liga and Spanish teams more recognised outside of Southern Europe, and the Barcelona teams of the early 00's for attracting further interest with their success, on the back of their golden generation - which was then arrogantly advertised as a superior crop of prodigies from a superior youth academy.

Again, times have changed. Barcelona have had relatively little success with their supposedly sustainable talent machinery, and the once underachieving Galacticos project of Real Madrid have been overachieving, despite their relatively limited activity in the transfer market. Fans of football have always enjoyed the banter of pointing their fingers at the most successful clubs, but success doesn't like to stay in one place for too long, and don't be surprised if Liverpool are the next club that my 75 year old grandmother decides to support through the purchase of a brand new Allisson kit for one of her grandchildren Smile

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Post by Freeza on Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:11 am

@Thimmy wrote:
@Unique wrote: as if you believe that. Laughing  money growing on trees and madrids ability to sign any player they want is the reason you became a madrid fan in the first place. dat glory rofl rofl rofl
 

If my dad hadn't impulsively decided to bring home a cable TV set with foreign sports channels, and Fernando Redondo hadn't decided to mesmerise me with his majestic, almost condescending movement and ball control, I probably would have support Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal, like every single one of my friends and their parents in primary school did. Hardly anyone here knew who Real Madrid or Barcelona was back then.

Times change. One moment, Chelsea are an overachieving village club spearheaded by the likes of Gianfranco Zola and my fellow countryman, Tore Andre Flo. In the next, they're signing Ballon d'or winner, Andrej Shevchenko and consistently fighting for top 3 spots in the prems. I suppose we can thank the shallow, Galacticos policy and star power of Florentino Perez for making La Liga and Spanish teams more recognised outside of Southern Europe, and the Barcelona teams of the early 00's for attracting further interest with their success, on the back of their golden generation - which was then arrogantly advertised as a superior crop of prodigies from a superior youth academy.

Again, times have changed. Barcelona have had relatively little success with their supposedly sustainable talent machinery, and the once underachieving Galacticos project of Real Madrid have been overachieving, despite their relatively limited activity in the transfer market. Fans of football have always enjoyed the banter of pointing their fingers at the most successful clubs, but success doesn't like to stay in one place for too long, and don't be surprised if Liverpool are the next club that my 75 year old grandmother decides to support through the purchase of a brand new Allisson kit for one of her grandchildren Smile


I was the only Madrid fan in my social circle growing up also. English clubs were far more popular, since they didn't even show Spanish games until like 2005 on TV. So it has always been harder to support Spanish teams in Denmark at least. Unlike Premier League who's been shown forever.

Also most kids are too stupid to understand a clubs success often, so I doubt they’re glory hunting. For me it was watching Figo and Guti that made me support Real. Even named my first dog Figo. Great name.

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Post by Doc on Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:52 am

Yeah, 7-8 year old me knew exactly how Madrid made their money and knew their elaborate transfer policy in how they sign players. Yup, totally not how they happen to look good in all white and the players who I really admired. Definitely, positively the former.

For the "money grows on trees" quip, that certainly wasn't the case when both Mendoza and Lorenzo Sanz put the club in serious debt particularly the latter. He was...something.


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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:45 am

In fairness to DoC, he is not accepting that this is going to be a transitional year. He does think club has endless money available and Flo can sign anyone he choses.

I agree with him that Flo has signed too many youth (at same time) and it will be difficult to give all of them the time they need.

However we have signed a teaching coach, a man who has definite and different tactics and who believes in using his entire squad.

This will be a transitional year and a chance for everyone to force their way onto team of future years. We definitely do not know if Ceballos, Vallejo, Odriozola, Llorente, Vinicius will develop into keepers. This is their opportunity. Similarly, it gives Bale the opportunity he wanted to see if he can be the talisman and stay healthy. And Isco, Asensio should get enough time to show they are right for starter status.

The only problem I have is not signing a CF. I can not accept the fact that NUEVE is likely to be our CF and likely the only one at that. With him there, it won’t be transitional, it will be disasterous!
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:03 am

Bill... you know as well as I do that Lopotegui is gone if we don't win a trophy this year. There's no such thing as a transitional year with Real Madrid. Media and fan pressure/expectation is too extreme. Managers are going to always play those that give the team the best chance to win.

That's why youth players have such a hard time. You typically only see youth players come in when there's a shortage of supply at positions (CB, fullback, CF)... and typically start out as backups. We only have a shortage at CF... and we didn't buy a youth player there strangely enough loooooool. Vinicius is competing against Isco, Asensio, Vasquez and Bale. Does anyone really think he will play at all? It's not even a question to me.

Same goes for CM... Kroos, Casemiro and Modric will see most of it. Maybe Casemiro gets rotated some. If Kova leaves, you may have an opportunity there. If not, it's going to be very tough again.

CB position is locked with Ramos, Varane and Nacho.

The only positions I see with perhaps opportunities are fullback (injury prone both of them), CM (if Kova leaves) and CF. That's it. It won't even be a whole lot of playing time either... and I don't like the fact that we're counting on kids to back up WC players. It doesn't work.

Not very optimistic for the season as we are built today. But maybe we add some players.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:27 am

No I don’t know that (nor do you) nor do I agree with anything in your post. You are the one that first posted this season was-going to be trasitional. You’re such a hypocrit!. I believe that Vallejo, Ceballos, Odriozola will be given amble time to demonstrate they belong or not. We likely will only see glimses of Vinicius. The one I’m not convinced is Llorente. As for Theo and Kova, I believe both are going. Papers this morning saying Kova is insisting on departure after talking with Lopetequi. I believe Bale will be given the opportunity, he has demanded. I believe this team could be competitive in liga and Copa if they sign a proper CF. I don’t believe this team is strong enough for CL even with a proper CF, given what likely is still available.
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