Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

by boyzis Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:43 pm

RealGunner wrote:Don't really understand Emery's teams. 5 at the back seems to have failed every single time he has tried.

You are playing 3 orthodox CBs against one striker. 2 midfielders against 6. Where is the creativity going to come from?

Taking XHAKA off instead of Guendouzi (shit version of Alex Song)?

Having 3 fullbacks on the bench lol? Willock should have been on the bench.

Shocking

100% agree...

by RealGunner Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:48 pm

Jay29 wrote:And on a related note, my brother and I were having this kinda philosophical discussion about how Arsenal as a club are in a low point of their history, but it doesn't feel that way because we're living it rather than looking back on it.

But when you think about it... Arsenal have gone 15 years without a league title. 15 years is a long time. You always look back on history and see these dry spells and think they'll never happen now, but it is happening. Right at this moment. 1998-2006 we were a great club but 2006-Present has been meh with the odd bright moment thrown in.

You wonder how things get like that but football is cyclical and factors outside our control hold us back, and getting back to that level now is really hard. You see how long it's taken Liverpool to get back up to a title challenging level again. I feel like it could be another 5, 10, maybe 15 years before Arsenal win the league again, and that's a really depressing thought.

So you look for something to enjoy in the meantime, and this Arsenal just isn't it. The club is a mess of poor buying decisions, average players and a manager who genuinely seems like he doesn't know what the hell he's doing and is throwing together random combinations and hoping one sticks. We have this destructive situation with Ozil that's actively hurting the team. Imagine Ozil getting in the positions Guendouzi was today? He'd have picked at least one good pass - one more good pass than Guendouzi managed the whole game. And I don't want to be too hard on the kid because he's just that. He's playing way more than he should be, because the manager has a fit and quality player who we NEED right now and isn't selecting him for the squad.

It's not just all about Ozil, though. It's watching XHAKA make yet another defensive error that cost us a goal. It's watching our midfield pass about with no purpose and direction. We created fuck all in that match. Against West Ham, a decent mid-table team who we should be beating, even with this team.

We haven't won away from home since Bournemouth in November. Dropping points to the likes of Brighton, West Ham, Southampton, the poorest-perfroming United team in years. Getting smashed by Liverpool yet again. Fans squabbling amongst themselves again over transfers, money, which players are actually good, whether the manager is good, and so on. I'm having deja vu. The whole thing is draining.

It's worse when you barely remember the feeling and the memories of winning the league. With each year some of the memories keep disappearing and it just feels like it never happened at times. I suppose it has a lot to do with the identity. There is absolutely nothing at Arsenal that would give you an indication that we were once successful. I think Wenger was the last remaining tie to it. I wonder if that's the reason some of the fans are becoming so disinterested. The lost era of 2007-2014. I think even then there was a sense of identity because we had Arsene, we played in a way which was renowned in the world, we were constantly a part of the CL, and above all of we players that we all were familiar with who were there at Arsenal for years.

It's a lot of change all too soon in the last few years. We seem to be losing connection with the club as a whole with each year. It was easy to laugh at Liverpool or United for their transition years but our seems to be a lot worse. It really is a question to ask about if we will ever win the league again? Can't see it for the next 5 years at least. Then you have the depressing thought of whether City or Chelsea will actually surpass us with the 3rd most titles in England before we win our 14th?

by Jay29 Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:23 pm

We call the 2007-2014 years "the banter era" but looking back there was a lot of hope and nearly moments back then that made you think we hadn't fallen off too far from the top. I can think of three separate occasions where we had the base for something good (07/08, 10/11 and 13/14) and we all thought we just needed two or three more key signings to push on, but we never got them and the potential was squandered. That 2015 summer when we only signed Cech and wasted the best seasons of Ozil and Sanchez by not giving them a good striker to play with disillusioned a lot of people, I think. But before then it felt like we on an upward curve.

It's the opposite now. We're on a downward curve and now need about 10 new players instead of "just two or three" to arrest that slump. It'd be one thing if we were seeing the life cycle of a good team reach it's end, but we're not. Instead, we're seeing a shoddy squad drag the overall level down.

Anyway, we'll just have to see this season out and hope it gets better. I think next summer is going to be big in terms of player turnover.

by RealGunner Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:41 pm

It's funny though because during the banter era, Arsene always made limited signings but they usually always worked out well. Or relatively well. They were purposeful signings to accommodate our style. Quick technical players. And specially young who were hungry to prove themselves.

Wonder why it changed to signing past it players and players with limited technical abilities. Denis Suarez is actually a welcome signing compared what we have currently in the squad.

We need to get rid of 10 players first before getting 10 new players. But when we are struggling to get rid of the likes of Jenkinson, can't imagine how we will get rid of the likes of Mustafi.

Remains to be seen.

by Jay29 Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:24 pm

It's a strange one. I think around 2014, Wenger must have thought he had a good core of technical players. He had Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey, Cazorla and Ozil (remember when he tried to play them all at the same time?) and even had Rosicky available to him for some matches. After that, he was clearly looking for forwards: Sanchez, Welbeck, Lucas Perez.

But then Arteta and Rosicky retire, Wilshere continues to be injured, Cazorla goes down to that achilles injury. Now the midfield is XHAKA and Coquelin or XHAKA and Ramsey. Not the quickest (in body and mind) you've ever seen. We just never addressed this, instead spending £120m to finally get a couple of good forwards into the team. And most of our summer work was focused on the defence.

So we'll see what Mislintat and co. manages to do in the summer. Torreira was a great signing for the midfield because he's technically good, plays the ball quickly and with purpose. Denis Suarez links are encouraging since it does suggest we're looking for more technical midfielders.

by Twoism Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:42 am

Basically Ozil be more competitive, be more COMPETITIVE, be more COMPETITIVE

by silver Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:54 am

It's not just that we're losing. I can't even identify with the team anymore. A few months ago I brought an Arsenal shirt and had no idea who's name to put on the back of the shirt. Only a select few of our current players feel like they would do anything for the club. Even a few years ago we still had (at the time they were in the club) Fabregas, Rosicky, Van Persie, even Mertesacker.

After Koscielny I can't even figure out who's been at the club the longest.

by Jay29 Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:43 am

Quick list of our longest serving players and the year they joined:

Aaron Ramsey - 2008
Emi Martinez - 2010
Laurent Koscielny - 2010
Hector Bellerin - 2011
Carl Jenkinson - 2011
Mesut Ozil - 2013

Not counting guys like Iwobi and Maitland-Niles, who have been at the club since they were very young.

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