Our Squad

"prone to the occasional mistake." is exactly the problem, though.

Not too sure about Gulacsi man. I've only ever seen him play in the pre-season games in Asia last year really and you can't really judge him there. I'm yet to see him play in the PL. Jones whilst is okay, is not the best and constantly gets the nod over him. Time will tell, I guess.

Well, I'm hoping those mistakes disappear as he picks up form again. Reina had added weight in the past couple of seasons, but he looks thinner this season. And I remember BR saying in an interview that Pepe had lost around 7-10 pounds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/05/jose-reina-liverpool-europa-league

As for Gulacsi, the lad hasn't really gotten any chances. I think he's already better than Jones and the only reason Jones gets picked ahead of him is because of experience. He's never going to be a WC keeper but I'm sure he can reach the levels of Krul, Mignolet, Vorm, Guzan, etc.

I'd sign just one CB (and keep Skrtel & Agger) and have Kelly or Wisdom for 4th choice. They look like decent players but I'm not convinced they'd be good right-backs for us, especially when we don't really do crossing but need full-backs with passing and dribbling skills (like GJ and JE).

A CM (or a CDM) would be nice, but that raises the question what would happen to Allen. Henderson, for me, should be a starter in many matches and play before Allen. I'd probably first sell Allen before buying a CM - but we'd make a massive loss on him, I could see someone paying £5m for Allen this summer, but we've just bought him for frigging £15m...

We don't need a CAM, if someone is to play CAM that should be Coutinho. If we'll play our 4-3-3 next season, too, there's not really a place for a true CAM, either.

Someone better than Downing for the RW spot, yes, please. Sterling shouldn't be forgotten, he did well for a while this season and deserves a similar chance next season, too.

So if there are no major sales, I would buy:
1 CB
1 FB
1 RW

If Allen is sold, then I'd buy a replacing CM. I'm sort of hoping for that, after seeing Allen being so poor this season, I'm quite sceptical about him being good enough for us next season, either. Perhaps ideally he'd go on loan to a Premiership side where he'd be a starter and we could see if he develops there - or at least grow his re-sale value which is pretty low right now.


What do you guys think will be Borini's role next season? I'm guessing mostly a substitute. I don't see anyone suggesting him being our RW solution and Sturridge probably should be ahead of Borini for the striker role (plus Suarez, obviously). Coutinho is showing so much class that he will surely continue to be an automatic starter. Probably surprises no one, but I'd rather have Carroll for that substitute striker's role. Borini will be a like-for-like substitute with our other attacking options whereas Carroll would mix things up. Not going to happen, though.

Let's get this out of the way:
Allen and Borini will not be sold unless they hand in a transfer request. Yes, both were brought in for significant prices and yes, both failed to live up to those price tags this season. However, both suffered from injury and being played out of position (Allen more so the latter) and both have long contracts and reasonable wages at the club, so have plenty of time to rebound and, at the VERY LEAST, drive up their value before sale.


Regarding the rest of the side:
Goalkeeping:
Reina isn't leaving. Reina isn't being dropped to back-up. Competition would be nice in an ideal world but this isn't an ideal world.
Brad Jones has a contract that runs for a few more years. He's seemingly happy to act as back-up to Reina.
Gulacsi is still very young (only 22) for a goalkeeper and has outlasted a number of other young keepers at the club. He's a solid if inexperienced player.

TL:DR
There will be no movement in goal, IMO.

Defence:
Johnson and Enrique seem to be our set fullbacks as both have had solid, if not great, seasons. While both Kelly and Wisdom are not natural RBs both have shown they can play there and are in Rodgers reckoning for the position on the depth chart. Robinson on the other hand seems to still be a bit immature both physically and mentally for an extended role in the first team (in the case of an injury to Enrique and Johnson) and may well be loaned out for another full season to gain further experience.

A back-up LB would be nice if funds are available, but isn't the most immediate priority. Options exist in the Eredivisie (Jetro Willems) and in England (Armand Traore?) as well as elsewhere, I'm sure.


Carragher is retiring. That's 1 CB that needs replacing. Rodgers wants to loan out Coates for experience. That's likely a second CB that needs replacing. Questions remain over Skrtel, though to a lesser extent than some make out (IMO). That's potentially a THIRD CB that requires replacing. In Kelly and Wisdom we have two young players who naturally developed as CBs but only have senior experience as RBs. Using either or both for depth in the CB position would be a risky course of action, but not a terribly shocking one. Following the Dempsey debacle of last summer I cannot see Rodgers chancing a similar fiasco happening this coming window. He will not, in my mind, leave us with 3 CBs to replace unless he's absolutely sure of replacing them in both quantity and quality. Carragher will retire; that is basically set in stone. Ideally we have 3 CBs that can compete for 2 starting berths (and allow for a 3-at-the-back system if needs be) and ideally Skrtel and/or Rodgers are able to put aside whatever issues he/they have and Skrtel will be one of those three. As said before though, this is certainly not an ideal world, so we shall see how the situation plays out. IF Skrtel is sold, I personally would expect a comparable replacement to be brought in for a similar or cheaper price.

We've been linked with Alderweireld, Williams, de Vrij, Indi, Lovren, and others. Alderweireld and Williams would be roughly comparable to Carragher and Skrtel in where they would fit into the squad... first team players competing for the 2 starting berths and filling the third spot on the bench. I know little of Lovren and have heard widely differing opinions on him, so won't comment. de Vrij would be a bit more ambiguous signing, as he's young enough to be a squad player (replacing Coates) but experienced and highly rated enough to potentially compete for a role in the senior match day squad on a regular basis. I rate Indi somewhat less highly personally, and would see him purely as a squad signing (directly comparable to Coates's current role).

Assuming Rodgers entertains the idea of using Kelly and/or Wisdom as depth in the CB role, we would require between three and one signing at CB. While the former is not unheard of or impossible, it's unlikely.

TL:DR
1 to 2 "first team" CBs
1 back-up CB
Maybe a back-up LB


Midfield:
These are perhaps the most debatable sections, so I'll start with what (I believe) we basically all agree on then move on to the more divisive areas.

I think we can all agree that a back-up for Lucas is necessary. Allen, while capable of covering CDM in certain situations for a limited time, has shown that extended runs in the role hurt both his and the club's form. Many want a physically imposing presence as the back-up CDM. I can see the merit in this and while I agree that the added variation is ideal do not personally believe it is absolutely necessary. Iturra, for instance, is not the biggest or strongest player but, like Mascherano in his time at Anfield, makes up for it with his tenacity and aggression. Alternatively there are the two QPR midfielders Mbia and Diakite. Both have their own issues (wages, mentality, ability) but in terms of back-up options they may be suitable, especially if QPR are forced into a fire sale by relegation.

Others want a physical presence signed for CM. I personally believe that while such a signing would be nice, it is more a luxury than a requirement at this point. Given the more pressing concerns in other areas, I would be a bit bothered if we spent in this area in the summer. We all rate Henderson. And I would venture so far as to say I do so more (and have for longer) than many here. That said, I still have a niggling worry that Rodgers simply does not view him as we do. He attempted to use him as a make-weight in the Dempsey deal last summer according to reports, and has shown what appears to be a reluctance to give Henderson a real run in the side this season. As such, I think it is possible, while not likely, that he could see Henderson as a potential fund-raiser this summer if the situation demands. IF Henderson is sold (again, unlikely) we would require another CM. I'd personally prefer a player of the similar mold... mobile, versatile, and intelligent, but a powerhouse signing in this instance would not upset me.

Attacking midfielders and attacking players tend to blend a bit in our current side, so I will be making some rather arbitrary distinctions between the two for the sake of simplifying this. If Rodgers opts to play with a 4-3-3 or variation thereof, I do not believe a true CAM is a pressing need. Indeed, I do not even see a clear opening for such a player in Rodgers' 4-3-3. Lucas would be the holding player, Gerrard the orchestrator, and (I hope) Henderson the runner (obviously hugely simplified, again for the sake of time).

If Rodgers instead opts to move toward something more akin to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-1-3 (yes, I realise this is a variation of a 4-3-3 and therefore a direct contradiction to the statement I just made, shut up ) then a proper CAM would become a more pressing need. The Eriksen and Armenian (I will learn his name if we sign him, but not before) links make sense if such a switch is planned and while I know little of the Armenian, Eriksen could be a huge asset in matches like the West Ham game from the weekend. His ability to pick a pass in tight spaces as well as make the type of intelligent turns that he's (youtube) famous for can create space when there is otherwise none to be found. The arrival of such a player would necessitate the dropping of a midfielder (Henderson) and could potentially unbalance the side, though. The wide players would absolutely need to contribute defensively which raises questions about the use of Coutinho and Sturridge in such roles.

I do not believe that Coutinho is suited to a CAM role. He has demonstrated that physical confrontation can put him off his game, which CBs and CDMs are more likely to employ than fullbacks. He also tends to require a bit of space to pick his passes, something he finds in more abundance on the wing than in the center. Coutinho also seems to favour running at players over drifting between the lines into pockets of space. Again, this is something he'll have more chance to exploit in a wide position.

Shelvey and Suso could both use a season long loan but only one will probably be allowed to leave, I think. Downing (given his main contribution is balance/defending I'll count him as a midfielder) may be sold, but I would be wary of betting on it at this point. If he is sold, I would expect an attacking player to be signed in his place, rather than a midfielder.


TL:DR
A back-up DM - physicality a plus but not a requirement
a CAM if 4-2-3-1/4-2-1-3 is the plan (no to Cou in the role)


Attack:
Suarez is a starter. This is not open to debate. No-one is obtuse enough to attempt to debate it. Where he starts is an intriguing question that could determine our entire (non-defensive) transfer plan though. If, as I expect, he is to start in a free inside-forward role much of the time, a versatile CF/WF would be a priority. If, by contrast, the plan is to start him as a CF/false 9 then a WF may be a priority, as well as a shift in the approach of our current wider attackers. If Rodgers plans to start him as a CAM/SS hybrid behind Sturridge (or a new forward) then nearly all of this discussion is moot as I obviously have no idea what's going on.

Assuming, for the sake of simplicity, that the reports of our interest in CAMs are accurate, Suarez will start in the forward line. Sturridge, I believe, is still Rodgers' first choice CF unless something shifts dramatically in the coming weeks. Coutinho has certainly caught the eye in his time with the club and can be a real player for us if he can adapt to his role (pace of the league and defensive work). Borini seems as though he could/should/will provide a very good bit of depth due to his work rate and versatility. As things stand, we look likely to have 4 senior players for 3 attacking positions come next September (Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge, Borini) with two (likely) leaving permanently (Downing, Assaidi) and several youth options with the potential to be loaned out or fill in (Sterling, Suso, Yesil, plus others who haven't broken through yet). One attacking signing would therefore be important with another preferable; the positions of said signings determined by the tactical plan for next season.

Persevering with the previous assumptions about potential formation/tactics, a wide attacker (but not necessarily a winger) seems most necessary. HBA has been linked as a star/starting signing but I personally am not a fan. Other options that seem more like depth signings have also been suggested; namely Ince and Markovic. Again looking at a potential QPR fire sale there's the chance we could return for Hoilett (depth/rotation) or pick up Remy (starter) but there are a number of questions both would raise/face. If the CF role is our concern then the only repeated link that comes to mind is Gameiro who I know fairly little about. Personally, I think we will most likely make a CAM and a WF (versatile) our primary targets going forward, with any others being relegated to depth/as-funds-are-available.

TL:DR
All based on assumption and guess work, 50/50 I'm completely wrong
At least one WF
Potential for another WF/Winger/CF


Summary:
Our transfer plans in the defensive third are fairly well known and set, with the only real question marks remaining over how many CBs we will see exit/arrive.

Similarly a back-up to Lucas at CDM seems both necessary and set.

Further ahead of this, though, plans are largely dependent upon the tactical approach Rodgers chooses to implement next season. Based on what I've seen so far (and undoubtedly a bit of personal preference) I've done my best to attempt to describe what I expect:
A 4-2-1-3 hybrid of 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1
Keep in mind, though, that these things are never set in stone (unless you're Roy with your 4 defenders, 4 midfielders, and 2 attackers) and that formation/line-ups/tactics can and will vary game to game.

Suarez starting as a wide forward but with freedom to roam. Sturridge as CF. Coutinho or another signing opposite Suarez. A CAM ahead of Gerrard and Lucas. Allen, Henderson, Borini, a signing, and youth providing depth.

TL:DR of Summary (you lazy bum you)
Outs (Guessed valuation):
Carroll - Sale (£10-15m)
Downing - Sale (£8-10m)
Assaidi - Sale (£3m)
Pacheco - Sale (£2m)
Spearing - Sale (£2m)
Carragher - Retirement
Suso/Shelvey - Loan
Coates - Loan

Ins:
Forward (Wide)
Attacking Mid
Defensive Mid
Center-back (senior)
Center-back (depth)

Other Potential Moves (not necessarily likely, but in the realm of possibility):
Sterling - Loan
Robinson - Loan
--Back-up LB
Skrtel - Sale (£15-20m)
--Center-back (senior)
Henderson - Sale (£10-15m)
--Central Mid

Potential Youth Used*:
Yesil - Forward
Sterling - Wide Attacker
Suso - Attacking Line/Attacking Mid
Shelvey - Central Mid/Attacking Mid
Wisdom - Right-back/Center-back
Kelly - Right-back/Center-back
Robinson - Left-back


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Squad** (to keep this post germane to the tread):
Goal:
Reina
Jones
Gulacsi

Defense:
Agger (CB)
New Signing (CB)
Johnson (RB)
Enrique (LB)
Skrtel (CB)
Kelly (RB/CB)
New Signing (CB)
Wisdom (RB/CB)

Midfield***:
Gerrard (CM)
Lucas (CDM)
New Signing (CAM)
Henderson (CM/CAM)
Allen (CM/CAM)
New Signing (CDM)
Shelvey (CM/CAM)
Suso (CAM/WF)

Attack***:
Suarez (WF/CF/CAM)
Coutinho (WF/CAM)
Sturridge (CF/WF)
New Signing (WF)
Borini (CF/WF)
Sterling (WF/Winger)


*Youth that could make sustained or repeated appearances with the senior side, excluding those who may make their initial breakthroughs or only appear in early/"easy" cup matches
**Ranked by assumed hierarchy on team sheet
***Arbitrary division between these two categories




There are undoubtedly innumerable errors of varying type and severity in that wall of text that I will probably attempt to fix as I find them later.










inb4:

I think everyone has the same rough idea on what we need. Red just addressed it above.

Ins:
Forward (Wide)
Attacking Mid
Defensive Mid
Center-back (senior)
Center-back (depth)

I'm not too sure many would disaagree that. You could argue for another keeper but I'll probably be alone in that department.

We have a very young squad. The youngest recorded in the PL according to Opta. That involves a 34 year old Carragher and a 31 year old Gerrard and a 31 year old Pepe Reina. That's only going to go down when Jamie retires. So signing mature player age players is a must. Anywhere from the ages of 22-26 imo. Or players like Coutinho or Eriksen (a genuine target) who have experience at a young age and can make a difference. The players that don't go missing.

Developing players to make world beaters is fine. But we already have a list of potential stars. You just have to look at the reserves and youngsters. We have a lot of talent. This is probably the best academy in terms of talent since the 90s where the likes of Robbie, Stevie, Owen and Jamie rised up. So a little bit of maturity is key to keep the balance going imo.

We don't want to turn into Arsenal where we only look for young players and hope we get into the top four every season. That's where the the likes of Gerrard, Leiva, Suarez and Johnson etc are all key. We actually have a leader at this club. And he's shown time and time again this season that he's still his influential self - not only on the pitch but off it too. That's what Arsenal lacks to get them to the next step. They lack that composure and extra experience from their older players. Arsene Wenger has just tried to address the issue signing the likes of Poldki, Cazorla etc in the last summer transfer window but they essentially still lack a leader. So I feel if we play it smart in the summer and sign players that are ready to play first team football in the PL, we can overpass Arsenal next season and make a genuine push for the 4.

To be fair though, we're not really pursuing the same policy as Arsenal did during their time as the young side. They were signing genuine unknowns or cherry picking players straight out of other clubs' academies to come into their side either immediately or within a year or two. While we're targeting younger players they're generally ones who have already had experience in senior leagues and relatively well known quantities. Henderson, Sturridge, Allen, Coutinho, and Borini all had some level of real experience. Coates performed in competitive action on the international stage. The players we're looking at now as in that same vein. Eriksen has over 100 appearances for the senior Ajax side and a good number for his international side. de Vrij has almost 100 appearances for his senior club side, is their current captain, and has played for the senior international team and his partner Bruno Indi is in a similar position.

That said, if you want real experience, maturity, and leadership certainly Williams should be a welcome target...

I disagree about the CAM part, I mean, who would he replace, Henderson? I smell an unbalanced XI again with Gerrard and Lucas struggling to deal with the opposition midfield. Plus I believe Coutinho would be as good a CAM as we would need, but if we continue to play with two wing-forwards, I think throwing a pure CAM in the mix would make us too weak in midfield again.

If West Ham want to buy Carroll at the end of the season, that would be the perfect opportunity to get Diame coming our way as part of the deal. He's been immense for West Ham, their best player this season, imo, and can do a job both ways of the pitch. The problem is that West Ham's midfield is already sh*t and they won't want to let him leave. But I'd much rather have a CM like him than an actual CAM, on the basis what we've seen this season when we've played with four attacking players and two CMs.

Diame is not CL quality I'm afraid. No thank you. He's a very good player but for a team with mid-table aspirations not a team hoping to challenge for the title in the next 5 years.

thing is,we need different options.

For example, Henderson is a type of player who'd more useful away from home than home against park the bus teams. He thrives in space to make runs and exploits the unoccupied space, but we won't see much of it when a team parks the bus like West Ham.

Someone like Eriksen would be more ideal to those type of games like the one we had on sunday.

We should have an able squad for different circumstances.

Art Morte wrote:I disagree about the CAM part, I mean, who would he replace, Henderson? I smell an unbalanced XI again with Gerrard and Lucas struggling to deal with the opposition midfield. Plus I believe Coutinho would be as good a CAM as we would need, but if we continue to play with two wing-forwards, I think throwing a pure CAM in the mix would make us too weak in midfield again.

If West Ham want to buy Carroll at the end of the season, that would be the perfect opportunity to get Diame coming our way as part of the deal. He's been immense for West Ham, their best player this season, imo, and can do a job both ways of the pitch. The problem is that West Ham's midfield is already sh*t and they won't want to let him leave. But I'd much rather have a CM like him than an actual CAM, on the basis what we've seen this season when we've played with four attacking players and two CMs.

If we're investing in a bullying, physical CM...then Wanyama>>>>>>

can play CB as well. already tested against Barca as well

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Diame is not CL quality I'm afraid. No thank you. He's a very good player but for a team with mid-table aspirations not a team hoping to challenge for the title in the next 5 years.

Not as a starter, no he isn't. But as a squad player, he definitely is. He's in the same mold as Momo Sissoko. Talented player is Diame.

RedOranje wrote:To be fair though, we're not really pursuing the same policy as Arsenal did during their time as the young side. They were signing genuine unknowns or cherry picking players straight out of other clubs' academies to come into their side either immediately or within a year or two. While we're targeting younger players they're generally ones who have already had experience in senior leagues and relatively well known quantities. Henderson, Sturridge, Allen, Coutinho, and Borini all had some level of real experience. Coates performed in competitive action on the international stage. The players we're looking at now as in that same vein. Eriksen has over 100 appearances for the senior Ajax side and a good number for his international side. de Vrij has almost 100 appearances for his senior club side, is their current captain, and has played for the senior international team and his partner Bruno Indi is in a similar position.

That said, if you want real experience, maturity, and leadership certainly Williams should be a welcome target...

That is true but FSG have said they want to copy the Arsenal model when they arrived. Signing young players with experience (ala Cou/Eriksen) is fine, but I still feel we need players that are already developed and ready to help push the squad into Europe / title challenge.

Williams is hardly experienced man. He's played in the BPL for 2 years, granted. But he's never played for a "top club" nor has he played in Europe.

I am curious about finding game time for all these expected attackers. I know things always work out over the course of a season, what with injuries and what not, but BR has been playing 4 at the front just to shoehorn everyone in there this season - what happens next season when he has 4 of his personal signings at the club? Assuming we make signings along the lines of what Red said, those front 4 spots will be competed for by:

Suarez
Sturridge
Coutinho
Sterling
New AM
New RW
Borini
Downing (if he stays)

And that's assuming we play the more attacking formations, where Henderson wouldn't be on the field and we'd essentially have a 2 man midfield. Going with the two most rumored signings, if we pick up Eriksen and HBA, who sits? If we play a 3 man midfield, we have to bench 2 out of the Sturridge/Coutinho/Eriksen/HBA group, and Sterling/Borini won't even be sniffing the substitutes. Especially with EL looking like a lost cause, where do we find minutes for all these people?

Problem of riches, I guess, but I'm a little worried about unbalancing tactics being used just to make people happy - starting Eriksen in the Henderson role, for instance, and watching the midfield get overrun all game. Also, if two attacking signings come in, I feel that selling Downing is a MUST. Out of that list, he's the one I would least like to see get game time - both in terms of efficacy and development.

I feel that BR first needs to address whether he wants to play possession based attacking football or 'wtf' attacking football. If he wants the former (using which, we arguably have had our best games this season), then firstly we should get a playmaker who is a good passer of the ball and can dictate tempo, work tirelessly, win the ball back etc. along with a center back.

Williams would be an average signing, a club of our stature can honestly do better in the same amount of money that will be used to buy him.

stevieg8 wrote:I am curious about finding game time for all these expected attackers. I know things always work out over the course of a season, what with injuries and what not, but BR has been playing 4 at the front just to shoehorn everyone in there this season - what happens next season when he has 4 of his personal signings at the club? Assuming we make signings along the lines of what Red said, those front 4 spots will be competed for by:

Suarez
Sturridge
Coutinho
Sterling
New AM
New RW
Borini
Downing (if he stays)

And that's assuming we play the more attacking formations, where Henderson wouldn't be on the field and we'd essentially have a 2 man midfield. Going with the two most rumored signings, if we pick up Eriksen and HBA, who sits? If we play a 3 man midfield, we have to bench 2 out of the Sturridge/Coutinho/Eriksen/HBA group, and Sterling/Borini won't even be sniffing the substitutes. Especially with EL looking like a lost cause, where do we find minutes for all these people?

Problem of riches, I guess, but I'm a little worried about unbalancing tactics being used just to make people happy - starting Eriksen in the Henderson role, for instance, and watching the midfield get overrun all game. Also, if two attacking signings come in, I feel that selling Downing is a MUST. Out of that list, he's the one I would least like to see get game time - both in terms of efficacy and development.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts about signing a CAM. We could play Gerrard & Lucas + 4 attacking players against weaker oppositions (at home), but this season's evidence would suggest we need three CMs to bring balance to the XI against tougher tests. So a CAM signing might go to waste in too many matches if we need to drop him in favour of a CM.

In my opinion a new RW would be a sufficient attacking addition. After all, we've scored a good number of goals this season, even if there have been games where we should have scored more. But keeping in mind we'll have a limited budget (and our financial results for the past two years have been poor), I'd sign only an RW as an attacking reinforcement.

I have said (some where in this thread) that signing of a new AM and RF/RW (and both first-team quality) is mutually exclusive.

Considering the amount of time Downing is having, I would guess Rodgers would persist with this (4411!) system with a new (and improved) RW/RF. However this well could be the result of dismal performances of Shelvey & Sahin, and Rodgers would follow 433 with a quality AM.

I feel as thou a number of the responses here pose questions/points I already addresed in my main post but for the sake of discussion I will briefly address them again.

1) formation: I based my analysis on the most prominent/reliable rumoured targets. Those suggest we're after a true CAM, suggesting a formation that allows for one.

2) Balance: I already suggested balance could suffer, but also made it clear that formation, tactics, and personel could and will likely vary be needs... against a side like West Ham at Anfield, a bit of balance can be sacrificed for more creativity in the final third. Eriksen isn't exactly lazy either; he works much harder in pressing and tracking back than Coutinho, for instance. Much of our unbalanced play has come not with a CAM in the side but with a forward playing in behind the striker...that is an influential if easily overlooked distinction. A CAM is a MIDFIELDER while Coutinho and our 4 attackers are/have been FORWARDS.

3) Speaking of Cou... As I've already explained his entire mentality and style suit a wide role much better than a central one. If you want to debate that that's fine, but at least provide some type of support for your stance.

4) Midfielders: To fit in a playmaker that controls the tempo would require moving/dropping Gerrard. I cannot se that happening. Diame is not realy similar to Momo sissoko in any significant way other than occupation, physical size, and skin colour... he's certainly not the same type of midfielder.

Center-backs: Rodgers comments today indicate he does indeed see Kelly as a potential CB so that's that question answered. As for Williams "not having experience": he has 70+ more PL matches and matches under Rodgers than Alderweireld, Howedes, etc. That's not suggesting he's BETTER than either but to say he's not experienced is simply nonsense. He may not be a CL champion quality playwr but neither is he some Championship level scrub as some are implying.

Please keep in mind that all of this is based on the reports and likely activity, rather than my personal preference. If you would likemto discuss personal visions for summer busines I think that would be better served in a different thread.

It could be fun to see everyone's realistically ideal (oxymoron if ever there was) and ideally ideal teams, honestly.

RedOranje wrote:12m does seem a bit steep for Williams, especially when Alderweireld appears to be available for 2/3rd of that.

Hypothetically, let's say we could sell Skrtel for 18m (Russian clubs) and get Alderweireld and Williams for a combined 20m, or Alderweireld and de Vrij/Indi for a combined 15m. Would people still be upset if the club let Skrtel go in either of those cases?


Also, no interest in my other thread suggestion(s)?

Can Skrtel be still valued 18 million (£!€!)!!! Yes, Russian clubs do tend to overpay but he is 28 and have been poor for about a year!

Williams doesn't seem to be a step-up from Skrtel. True he is having a good run but even is that good enough for our ambitions! I don't think anyone would disagree that Skrtel is a better player than Williams (over last few years). So if an off-form Skrtel is hurting us can we relay on a 'one season wonder'!

I really don't know anything about Alderweireld, Vjir or Indi so can't really comment on their impact.

What thread suggestion!

RedOranje wrote:I feel as thou a number of the responses here pose questions/points I already addresed in my main post but for the sake of discussion I will briefly address them again.

1) formation: I based my analysis on the most prominent/reliable rumoured targets. Those suggest we're after a true CAM, suggesting a formation that allows for one.

To me that suggests something else than 4-3-3 and that'd be quite a big change.

2) Balance: I already suggested balance could suffer, but also made it clear that formation, tactics, and personel could and will likely vary be needs... against a side like West Ham at Anfield, a bit of balance can be sacrificed for more creativity in the final third. Eriksen isn't exactly lazy either; he works much harder in pressing and tracking back than Coutinho, for instance. Much of our unbalanced play has come not with a CAM in the side but with a forward playing in behind the striker...that is an influential if easily overlooked distinction. A CAM is a MIDFIELDER while Coutinho and our 4 attackers are/have been FORWARDS.

CAM as a forward could do well in a limited number of (easier) games. CAM as a midfielder = I'd rather have a versatile CM.

3) Speaking of Cou... As I've already explained his entire mentality and style suit a wide role much better than a central one. If you want to debate that that's fine, but at least provide some type of support for your stance.

Passing vision and ability. The occasional fancy for a long-shot. Plus he tends to drift into the middle anyway when we are enjoying possession in the final third. He can play winger, too, but if we need a CAM, he can be that player as well, if you ask me.

4) Midfielders: To fit in a playmaker that controls the tempo would require moving/dropping Gerrard. I cannot se that happening. Diame is not realy similar to Momo sissoko in any significant way other than occupation, physical size, and skin colour... he's certainly not the same type of midfielder.

If we have the same personel as this season plus add-ons, my preferred midfield would be Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson. So I don't see this area that important, although depending whether or not Allen (and Shelvey) can step up his game, I'd welcome a versatile, Henderson-esque CM (I'd really like Diame for this role).

Center-backs: Rodgers comments today indicate he does indeed see Kelly as a potential CB so that's that question answered. As for Williams "not having experience": he has 70+ more PL matches and matches under Rodgers than Alderweireld, Howedes, etc. That's not suggesting he's BETTER than either but to say he's not experienced is simply nonsense. He may not be a CL champion quality playwr but neither is he some Championship level scrub as some are implying.

I'd have Skrtel & Agger as our first-choice pair, but that's looking unlikely. Disappointed at how Skrtel is being treated, but keeping my mind open about replacements - just hoping Rodgers is keeping his mind open, too, and doesn't just go and pay over the top for Williams.

All points are naturally debatable.

iftikhar wrote:What thread suggestion!

RedOranje wrote:Please keep in mind that all of this is based on the reports and likely activity, rather than my personal preference. If you would like to discuss personal visions for summer busines I think that would be better served in a different thread.

It could be fun to see everyone's realistically ideal (oxymoron if ever there was) and ideally ideal teams, honestly.

I've gone ahead and split a number of posts from this thread into a separate thread for discussion of transfer moves/plans/rumours for this summer's window. It's NOT meant to be a thread for "ideal" moves/teams though so if people want such a thread you'll need to create it.

Please use this thread for transfer speculation and such:
http://www.goallegacy.net/t29800-summer-transfer-window-2013

Does Tottenham and Arsenal have a better squad than Liverpool!!!

I don't watch as much football as most of you do (or follow it in web, magazine etc.). However, i have a feeling that the three squads are pretty evenly matched. I would even suggest that in Johnson, Enrique, SUAREZ, Sturridge and Coutinho combined, we have edge over what the other two have in similar positions.

So what do you think!

iftikhar wrote:Does Tottenham and Arsenal have a better squad than Liverpool!!!

I don't watch as much football as most of you do (or follow it in web, magazine etc.). However, i have a feeling that the three squads are pretty evenly matched. I would even suggest that in Johnson, Enrique, SUAREZ, Sturridge and Coutinho combined, we have edge over what the other two have in similar positions.

So what do you think!

Uh, oh, a hard one...

Tottenham, to me, are a very balanced team. Decent full-backs, good depth in center-backs, midfielders who can play both ways, Bale, Lennon's a good winger, Defoe's a good striker, Dempsey, Sigurdsson, Holtby. Lloris in goal.

I don't think they'll collapse even if they lose Bale, they should be able to sign a good winger and another striker and they look good to me for next season, too.

Arsenal are Arsenal, what can you say. I suppose you could call them a wee bit unlucky that the likes of Podolski and Giroud haven't been delivering the goods quite as much as you'd expect Arsenal players to do. I expect them to do well next season, so... A good squad, yeah.

Then again, I don't think we've got weak links in our team. If we get an upgrade on Downing I wouldn't say we're worse off than the North Londoners.

I think we're about the same in terms of first 11, and we've shown that this year. I am worried about our depth in defensive positions though. We all rate Skrtel and Agger based on last years performances, but they haven't been up to the level we need. Our depth behind them isn't certain, although Carra has stepped up into that role quite well in 2013. More worrying than that is depth at the FB and DM positions though... We've seen what happens when Enrique or Johnson are hurt/out of form; we start teenagers, and without Kelly available, there's a major drop off in quality after our starting 2. That's unacceptable.

Then at DM, without Lucas we're a mess. We need someone who can rotate with him when needed and we might need to accept that he's an injury prone player. I hope this isn't true and that it was just a couple of times, but if he gets hurt again it will cause us problems again. We need quality in these back up spots for competition and for depth, otherwise I'm not sure we can say we're at the same level as these teams. I think that's the biggest reason for our inconsistency and the reason why we're behind them at the moment.

Alright fellas the season is over. Leave your comments about everything this season, the good, the bad, and the ugly. There's definitely been great progress even if the table doesn't show a lot of it.

I'll post more later on this, but I'll leave you with this.

http://stats.football365.co.uk/dom/ENG/PR/clsht.html

RedOranje wrote:Skrtel went from our player of the season and arguably one of the best and most physically dominant centerbacks in the League to a defender who was inconsistent, played suicide passes, and was bullied by multiple CFs. That's regression for me.

If you want to talk about the reasons behind it and/or [mitigating] circumstances surrounding that drop in quality there's certainly a discussion to be had (preferably in another thread); but the actual regression is fairly clear and inarguable.

Our whole defence had to adapt to Rodgers high line. The only player that adapted to the high line before January was Glen Johnson. Our whole defence was poor. I'm not sure why people continuosly target Skrtel as the only one that struggled. He wasn't given the same amount of chance as Agger, Enrique and hell, even Carragher. We went back to a deeper line after Jamie came back into the starting XI. Can only think of one game where Skrtel played with Lucas too. The whole team played crap there, but I wonder if you could guess who was the first to blame against Southampton? Yeah...

Suicide passes? Bar the Man City game, do you have any other examples of this?

Bullied by multiple CFs? Where's the blame for Agger there?

Favouritism has to stop. Judge the players fairly ffs.

Favoritism? That's a bloody laugh.

Agger wasn't the physically dominant force that Skrtel was last season, nor was he our Player of the Season. That's why his issues with physical forwards like Benteke don't equal the same type of regression as they do for Skrtel. He also didn't have issues against the likes of Oldham's strikers, or make the same mistakes like Skrtel's back-pass against City (one which was amazing nowhere to be seen in the player ratings while Reina's mistakes apparently cost us Europe... favoritism?).

The defensive set-up and other issues, are as I already stated, other circumstances that can be discussed but to not change the fact that Skrtel had a poorer season performance-wise than last, i.e. regressed.