Re: Our Squad

by iftikhar Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:26 pm

Cujo wrote:
Henderson - Can - Milner
Firmino - Coutinho
STRIKER

I'm pretty sure these six will play most frequently. However, whether they will operate as 4321 (as above), 433 (the Brazilians operating wide) or 443 (Firmino as SS) remains to be seen.

Heil wrote:I think it is going to be frustrating if BR does not settle with formation early in the next season !

Agreed.

by McAgger Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:02 pm

If by some miracle Sturridge is fit all season long and plays at 12-14 prime level, we have a really good attack. We may have a a really good season if our attack carries the whole team because the defense will be just as shit, I'm almost certain of that.

by Nishankly Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:13 am

Na we'll be better a fit Enrique and Clyne should make up for the games Lovren plays.

by donttreadonred Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:03 pm

El Cujo wrote:A 4-2-3-1 seems ideal for our personnel. Though it will be kind of tough with Milner supposedly coming in to play midfield. Though the German youth team coach said that Can was assured he would be allowed to take over Gerrard's spot (which I assume means in the DM slot of a 4-3-3).

Clyne - Skrtel - Sakho - Moreno
Can
Henderson - Milner
Lallana - Firmino - Coutinho

I could live with this. Plenty of cover, and really easy to change into other formations with personnel changes. However, I still think with Firmino and Coutinho our best option is something of a 4-3-2-1 ala:

Henderson - Can - Milner
Firmino - Coutinho
STRIKER

It optimizes the space that Firmino and Coutinho have to either cut out wide or come centrally, and it allows a midfield of those three to work with a little more space to the outside.

A 4-2-3-1 would seem to suit our personnel.

Henderson---Can
Milner---Coutinho---FIrmino
Striker

However, I do expect Milner to be moved more centrally and used in conjunction with Can and Henderson in a Midfield3 (as in your examples above), with the Brazillians predominantly deployed on iether side of a central striker. The roles will likely be variable, though. In other words, some games will feature Henderson and Milner drifting wide to cover the flanks, with Coutinho and Firmino regularly tucking in behind the striker; others will feature the Brazillian's staying wide, with Henderson and Milner being asked to push forward from the midfield. As much as BR likes to tinker with individual roles and win the "tactical battle", the roles will likely vary depending upon the opponent and whatever weaknesses are identified in their setup.

One other point: I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss Henderson as the "deep-lying midfield". The term is in quotes as I have come to grips with the fact that BR's preferred system does not necessarily deploy a devoted DM. Given our transfers over the last few windows (specifically a lack of targeting a true DM, despite an obvious need), it looks like BR wants to employ a very fluid, dynamic midfield three. With Milner, Can, and Henderson, I think we will see three players interchanging roles regularly. For example, Can may start deep, but push forward with the expectancy that Hendo or Milner will drop deep to cover.

With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Henderson given the responsibility of starting as the deepest of the midfield3, being given the responsibility of controlling tempo and distribution. Yes, this will hamper his ability to press and harry, but it also will allow Can the freedom to maraud forward and use his skills and physicality further up the pitch.

Given my preference, I would love to see Can developed as a distributing DM, dropping between the CBs, using his physicality to break-up play, and spraying the ball around like Xabi Alonso. I think he has all the attributes to do so. However, it's hard to guess precisely what BR has in mind for our German stud. After being used in nearly every position other than CF, it's clear he can do a job in nearly any role. I just hope we don't end up making him a "jack of all trades, but master of none".

by iftikhar Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:30 pm

Cujo wrote:However, I still think with Firmino and Coutinho our best option is something of a 4-3-2-1 ala:

Henderson - Can - Milner
Firmino - Coutinho
Benteke

by Curtinho Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:15 pm

Yep.

Starting XI:

Simon Mignolet
Nathaniel Clyne - Martin Skrtel - Mamadou Sakho - Alberto Moreno
Jordan Henderson - Emre Can - James Milner
Roberto Firmino - Philippe Coutinho
Christian Benteke

Bench: Adam Bogdan, Joe Allen, Lucas Leiva, Jordon Ibe/Lazar Markovic, Divock Origi/Danny Ings, Dejan Lovren and Andre Wisdom/Jose Enrique

Obviously it will rotate. Pretty good quality. I think we will challenge for top 4.

by iftikhar Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:20 pm

Cujo wrote:Bench: Adam Bogdan, Joe Allen, Lucas Leiva, Jordon Ibe/Lazar Markovic, Divock Origi/Danny Ings, Dejan Lovren and Andre Wisdom/Jose Enrique

are you selling Lallana Suspect

???

by Curtinho Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:21 pm

Oooops. Was writing it up quick. He would obviously be in there.

by McAgger Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:47 pm

Sturridge is so much better than Benteke, it ain't even funny. Let's for the love of god just hope Sturridge is fit most of the season so Ted-Ben-tekkers-man isn't sorely relied upon for goals.

by iftikhar Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:21 am

Don't call me James wrote:Sturridge is so much better than Benteke, it ain't even funny. Let's for the love of god just hope Sturridge is fit most of the season so Ted-Ben-tekkers-man isn't sorely relied upon for goals.

Sturridge is always going to be our go-to guy. Benteke was always going to be his understudy.

I'm sure Sturridge (injury-prone), Benteke, Ings, Origi is way better than Sturridge (injury-prone), Balotelli, Borini, Lambert.

Yes the improvement isn't worth GBP 50m, but it's an improvement nevertheless.

by Helmer Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:02 am

donttreadonred wrote:
El Cujo wrote:A 4-2-3-1 seems ideal for our personnel. Though it will be kind of tough with Milner supposedly coming in to play midfield. Though the German youth team coach said that Can was assured he would be allowed to take over Gerrard's spot (which I assume means in the DM slot of a 4-3-3).

Clyne - Skrtel - Sakho - Moreno
Can
Henderson - Milner
Lallana - Firmino - Coutinho

I could live with this. Plenty of cover, and really easy to change into other formations with personnel changes. However, I still think with Firmino and Coutinho our best option is something of a 4-3-2-1 ala:

Henderson - Can - Milner
Firmino - Coutinho
STRIKER

It optimizes the space that Firmino and Coutinho have to either cut out wide or come centrally, and it allows a midfield of those three to work with a little more space to the outside.

A 4-2-3-1 would seem to suit our personnel.
Henderson---Can
Milner---Coutinho---FIrmino
Striker

However, I do expect Milner to be moved more centrally and used in conjunction with Can and Henderson in a Midfield3 (as in your examples above), with the Brazillians predominantly deployed on iether side of a central striker. The roles will likely be variable, though. In other words, some games will feature Henderson and Milner drifting wide to cover the flanks, with Coutinho and Firmino regularly tucking in behind the striker; others will feature the Brazillian's staying wide, with Henderson and Milner being asked to push forward from the midfield. As much as BR likes to tinker with individual roles and win the "tactical battle", the roles will likely vary depending upon the opponent and whatever weaknesses are identified in their setup.

One other point: I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss Henderson as the "deep-lying midfield". The term is in quotes as I have come to grips with the fact that BR's preferred system does not necessarily deploy a devoted DM. Given our transfers over the last few windows (specifically a lack of targeting a true DM, despite an obvious need), it looks like BR wants to employ a very fluid, dynamic midfield three. With Milner, Can, and Henderson, I think we will see three players interchanging roles regularly. For example, Can may start deep, but push forward with the expectancy that Hendo or Milner will drop deep to cover.

With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Henderson given the responsibility of starting as the deepest of the midfield3, being given the responsibility of controlling tempo and distribution. Yes, this will hamper his ability to press and harry, but it also will allow Can the freedom to maraud forward and use his skills and physicality further up the pitch.

Given my preference, I would love to see Can developed as a distributing DM, dropping between the CBs, using his physicality to break-up play, and spraying the ball around like Xabi Alonso. I think he has all the attributes to do so. However, it's hard to guess precisely what BR has in mind for our German stud. After being used in nearly every position other than CF, it's clear he can do a job in nearly any role. I just hope we don't end up making him a "jack of all trades, but master of none".

I think this seems fine, that Henederson and Milner pushing forward. At least on paper this seems like our best team (Lucas saying hi there for deepest role) but I still think we should not dismiss Lallana to be displaced by Firmino automatically. Lallana in this season will definitely be better than last season and who knows Firmino in new league, new team, new city, everything new around might take more time settle.

I think this will be recipe for a defensive disaster. I think these players needed to be allotted clear responsibilities. The midfield organisation is the main reason for BR's Liverpool team being defensively weak. Also I doubt Can will be directly settled in any particular position in midfield 3. He will be used more often in the place of Milner or Henderson imo. And Lucas and Allen are going to compete for that deepest role.

by Red Alert Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:07 am

What we should play:

Lucas
Henderson Coutinho
Lallana Firminho
Sturridge/Reus

What we will play:

Henderson Milner Can
Coutinho
Firminho Benteke

by Helmer Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:19 am

that first team seems good ! In this season, I feel Milner is going to be a player in this season who is going to frustrate fans because of he starting every game Laughing

by Curtinho Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:31 pm

If Sturridge were an option I'm sure that he would be played.

If he is healthy I wouldn't be opposed to a 4-4-2 with

Henderson - Can
Firmino ----------- Coutinho
Sturridge - Benteke

by donttreadonred Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:46 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:
donttreadonred wrote:
However, I do expect Milner to be moved more centrally and used in conjunction with Can and Henderson in a Midfield3 (as in your examples above), with the Brazillians predominantly deployed on iether side of a central striker. The roles will likely be variable, though. In other words, some games will feature Henderson and Milner drifting wide to cover the flanks, with Coutinho and Firmino regularly tucking in behind the striker; others will feature the Brazillian's staying wide, with Henderson and Milner being asked to push forward from the midfield. As much as BR likes to tinker with individual roles and win the "tactical battle", the roles will likely vary depending upon the opponent and whatever weaknesses are identified in their setup.

One other point: I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss Henderson as the "deep-lying midfield". The term is in quotes as I have come to grips with the fact that BR's preferred system does not necessarily deploy a devoted DM. Given our transfers over the last few windows (specifically a lack of targeting a true DM, despite an obvious need), it looks like BR wants to employ a very fluid, dynamic midfield three. With Milner, Can, and Henderson, I think we will see three players interchanging roles regularly. For example, Can may start deep, but push forward with the expectancy that Hendo or Milner will drop deep to cover.

With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Henderson given the responsibility of starting as the deepest of the midfield3, being given the responsibility of controlling tempo and distribution. Yes, this will hamper his ability to press and harry, but it also will allow Can the freedom to maraud forward and use his skills and physicality further up the pitch.

Given my preference, I would love to see Can developed as a distributing DM, dropping between the CBs, using his physicality to break-up play, and spraying the ball around like Xabi Alonso. I think he has all the attributes to do so. However, it's hard to guess precisely what BR has in mind for our German stud. After being used in nearly every position other than CF, it's clear he can do a job in nearly any role. I just hope we don't end up making him a "jack of all trades, but master of none".

I think this seems fine, that Henederson and Milner pushing forward. At least on paper this seems like our best team (Lucas saying hi there for deepest role) but I still think we should not dismiss Lallana to be displaced by Firmino automatically. Lallana in this season will definitely be better than last season and who knows Firmino in new league, new team, new city, everything new around might take more time settle.

I think this will be recipe for a defensive disaster. I think these players needed to be allotted clear responsibilities. The midfield organisation is the main reason for BR's Liverpool team being defensively weak. Also I doubt Can will be directly settled in any particular position in midfield 3. He will be used more often in the place of Milner or Henderson imo. And Lucas and Allen are going to compete for that deepest role.

Regardless of what we think should be done, I don’t expect any more concerted effort towards defensive organization this season than last. If our defense is better, it will be down to proper squad selection and the familiarity/understanding that comes with consistency in personnel.

Specifically regarding the midfield, I think it’s safe to assume that Milner and Henderson WILL play. The only real questions remaining are: who plays with them, and what roles are they given. As I’ve said above, everything BR has shown since coming to LFC in the market, in his tactics, and in his selection seems to suggest that he does not believe in assigning one midfielder the role of “shielding” the back four. Moreover, I wouldn’t trust Lucas or Allen with this role at this point in their careers.

Lucas will never be better than he was in that 2011 League Cup match against Chelsea in which he was injured. He’s never fully recovered, and I wouldn’t trust him to physically be able to do the job week-in week-out against Premier League opposition.

Since coming to Liverpool, Allen has been a jack of all trades for the club. Unfortunately, he’s mastered none, and sits behind at least one other player in each of his preferred positions. Moreover, he is not (and never has been) a true DM. He’s effectively a poor-man’s Pirlo when played in that role. He’s most effective when used as a true CM. However, he now has Milner, Henderson and Can (maybe even Coutinho) all fighting for two spots ahead of him.

Mind you, I don’t disagree that we could do with a true DM sat in front of the back four. I merely don’t think Rodgers is going to play with one. Personally, I would sit Can in the DM role. Really, he would effectively be performing the same role he did from RCB in Rodgers’ back-three. He will just be starting from a more central position. Honestly, his stint at CB could be the perfect thing to teach him to curb his attacking instincts and learn to hang back from the play a bit more and support the attack while not neglecting his duties of shielding the defense.

I can already tell that the midfield setup is going to be my “hang-up” with the tactics this season. However, it will certainly be easier to swallow should the team produce positive results.

by McAgger Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:37 am

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:that first team seems good ! In this season, I feel Milner is going to be a player in this season who is going to frustrate fans because of he starting every game

Nah I think we'll all be satisfied with Milner. He's a good player. In the future we'd all hope for better but for now he'll do to compete for 4th.

Allen is your man for that frustration.

by Curtinho Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:17 am

I'm really liking the idea of a Henderson - Can - Milner midfield after watching how hard Rodgers wants the team to press, and high up the pitch.

When we have our best XI on the pitch the pressing is going to be insane from those three plus Firmino and Coutinho. It will definitely help mask our defensive deficiencies (if they are still present).

by iftikhar Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:25 am

I guess we will have three-men midfield against away/stronger teams:

Emre
Henderson-Milner
Coutinho
Firmino-Striker

While against home games/weaker/PTB teams we will sacrifice a CM (Emre) for an attacker (Lallana):

Henderson-Milner
Lallana-Coutinho-Firmino
Striker

by Kick Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:49 am

Haven't you played 4-3-3 in all the pre season games?

Surely that will be the formation you use?

by Curtinho Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:44 pm

We'll almost definitely play a 4-3-3 and a 4-1-2-1-2. Rodgers is pragmatic though so if it's not working I'm sure he can change it up.

by iftikhar Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:49 pm

Kick wrote:Haven't you played 4-3-3 in all the pre season games?

Surely that will be the formation you use?

Given the players used in both the formations, it will be very easy to switch to 433. Basically, that will be the key. The core squad can be deployed in variety of formations depending on the situation.

by iftikhar Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:35 am

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-players-goal-targets-9726265

by Curtinho Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:42 pm

This is actually a pretty good image that I stole from RAWK on how our team looks, and will likely line-up this season. I think Can will start over Lucas, and Allen will provide cover for Henderson, but other than that I think it looks pretty accurate.

Pretty nice actually. I think it also makes the links to Digne a bit more sensible. I think there's a real chance we end up signing him.

by BusterLfc Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:52 pm

What makes you think Can is a better DM than Lucas?

by Curtinho Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:59 pm

I think he's a more complete player (by a wide margin), and his exploits at CB last season gives me confidence that he can perform a holding role quite well. I think that Rodgers likes footballers that have more than one facet to their game, generally, and the German youth coach said that Can was allegedly promised Gerrard's role.

That said I'm sure they'll both get plenty of game time with our fixture schedule (though Lucas probably even less due to being injury prone).

by Nishankly Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:03 pm

Can has to phased in like Ibe. Potential is there and he has a higher ceiling than Lucas atm but Can has to do A LOT if he can reach prime Lucas's level.

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