Our Squad

Can has to phased in like Ibe. Potential is there and he has a higher ceiling than Lucas atm but Can has to do A LOT if he can reach prime Lucas's level.

Emre did mostly well as a CB in the three-man back line last season, but he did struggle a bit, too. And most of those struggles seemed to me like getting caught out of position and letting a player run behind him without getting offside. This is my only worry about Can as a defensive midfielder, that his positional sense and awareness might not be good enough to play DM - at least not yet. You need your DM to keep a track of runners and opposition's off-the-ball movement and that's where Can struggled a little too much last season.

Lucas is the best DM at the club and it's not close. Emre has goat potential as a midfielder (I think he's best as box to box) but currently he's not better than Hendo at BtB and not better than Lucas at DM.

Don't call me James wrote:Lucas is the best DM at the club and it's not close. Emre has goat potential as a midfielder (I think he's best as box to box) but currently he's not better than Hendo at BtB and not better than Lucas at DM.

This is a true statement only by default. Lucas is the only first-team DM at the club.

Allen is not a DM. He can play in that role similar to the way Gerrard could play in that role (with approximately half of the ability, and that's not meant as a slight to Allen).

Can could be a DM. However, at the moment, he's far more of a B2B CM. His physicality and his time at CB last season give me hope that he can play as DM in the future, but he's not true DM, yet.

The biggest question here is whether you think Rodgers will play with a true DM. Personally, I'm not convinced. He's shown no inclination to pursue a true DM in the market and hasn't fielded one regularly in his time at the club. My guess woul be that Can will eventually start as the deepest CM, but the other two (likely Milner and Hendo in most matches) will be expected to rotate responsibilities in a fairly fluid, three-man midfield.

we are going to struggle a bit this season in terms of both defense and attack if we play Henderson and Milner together as we did today. So I hope it was just an experiment.
It is clear that we are going to depend on our pressing for the defense purpose. The only way Allen is going to feaure this season is in that deepest position. Even BR has realised that he cant grow Allens balls for playing as a B2B. So we will see plenty of Can when we need to rest Milner or Henderson. By no means and with no clues, it seems like BR has fixed Can's position for deepest midfield. So I am curious in which direction goes the career of Emre Can !!

Is anyone else a little worried that our winger options are a little questionable?

Coutinho won't play on the wing.
Ibe is young and we don't know how good he is yet.
Markovic seems to be out of the picture.
Lallana isn't a winger.
Firmino isn't a winger, yes?
Origi, we don't know how he'll do.
Teixeira is another unknown quantity, might leave even.

We've got a lot of good attacking midfielders, but I'm a little worried that if we lack natural width and wingers who make runs and can beat defenders with their pace and skill, we might become too narrow and too easy to defend against. I thought it was a bit of an issue already against Stoke, we couldn't get behind their defence and, apart from Ibe, played too narrow. It's something to keep an eye on.

Hoping we can get rid of Balotelli, Borini and Texeira.

I don't think it's necessary to play with wingers when you have fullbacks that are more or less wingbacks like Clyne, Moreno and Gomez that can spread the width and allow us to clog up the middle of the field.

I think it's too early to write off Markovic though. Origi and Firmino can both push the play wide, but are more or less inside forwards. Both Henderson and Milner also seem to have the tendency to move out into wide areas from the center of the pitch when not making penetrative runs.

Rodgers has never really used a ton of width in general though. He's had forwards that will push the play out wide, but even through his most successful spells almost everything goes through the middle.

I don't think our full-backs are good enough going forward to offer what actual wingers offer. You'd have to be someone like Marcelo anyway to do to that.

They don't need to be like legitimate wingers. Just players that are capable of providing width when needed. Watch Henderson play (at least the last two seasons). He'll end up collecting the ball and moving out wide, or starting in a wide position, and cross the ball in from deep or make a nice through ball.

I find for the most part out central players often enough move off the ball to wide areas to create space, and then drive through the middle with the ball or move the ball through the middle. Having Benteke there now as well as capable attacking fullbacks (Clyne, Moreno, and even Gomez to an extent) will allow us to keep the other team honest from the flanks also.

Guys like Ibe, Markovic and Origi to a lesser extent are all alternate options for if we really need to overload the wideplay because the middle is too clogged up.

I'm not convinced. We'll see.

So, I thought a little about our squad and what I wanted to ask is. Is anyone else a little worried that our winger options are a little questionable?

Coutinho won't play on the wing.
Ibe is young and we don't know how good he is yet.
Markovic seems to be out of the picture.
Lallana isn't a winger.
Firmino isn't a winger, yes?
Origi, we don't know how he'll do.
Teixeira is another unknown quantity, might leave even.

We've got a lot of good attacking midfielders, but I'm a little worried that if we lack natural width and wingers who make runs and can beat defenders with their pace and skill, we might become too narrow and too easy to defend against. I thought it was a bit of an issue already against Stoke, we couldn't get behind their defence and, apart from Ibe, played too narrow. It's something to keep an eye on.

IMO we should get Pedro if he's available. Thoughts?

That's an excellent post, Fußball, I wholeheartedly agree, but unfortunately there's no way Barcelona are selling a world-class player like Pedro. We should look anywhere else but there.

Art Morte wrote:That's an excellent post, futbol

Thanks, appreciated. I put a lot of thought into the team I support and this was one of the glaring question marks for me after watching our first Premier League game this season and I wanted to hear people's opinion on it.

Art Morte wrote:but unfortunately there's no way Barcelona are selling a world-class player like Pedro. We should look anywhere else but there.

IMO we might convince Barca to sell us Pedro if we also offer Barca to take Alex Song off them. I think Alex Song is available and what better replacement for Lucas, if the bust-up rumours with beaut of a manager Brendan are true, than Premier League proven Alex Song?

Thoughts?

If you promise to remain with us for this whole season, I can support you for this petition. Alex Song and Pedro, both IN

I'll only do the deal if they take Balotelli off our hands.

Helmer wrote:If you promise to remain with us for this whole season, I can support you for this petition. Alex Song and Pedro, both IN

You won't walk alone. We make the top 4 together.

Will you still continue to support them though if Kloppo takes over ?!

Art Morte wrote:Is anyone else a little worried that our winger options are a little questionable?

Coutinho won't play on the wing.
Ibe is young and we don't know how good he is yet.
Markovic seems to be out of the picture. It would be really stupid of Rodgers if writes him off and don't give him enough opportunity.
Lallana isn't a winger.
Firmino isn't a winger.
Origi, we don't know how he'll do. Origi isn't a winger, yes?
Teixeira is another unknown quantity, might leave even.

We've got a lot of good attacking midfielders, but I'm a little worried that if we lack natural width and wingers who make runs and can beat defenders with their pace and skill, we might become too narrow and too easy to defend against. I thought it was a bit of an issue already against Stoke, we couldn't get behind their defence and, apart from Ibe, played too narrow. It's something to keep an eye on.

Yes our winger options are quite unproven though quite potent as well. I believe Rodgers wants the wing-backs and players like Firmino to create width.

futbol wrote:So, I thought a little about our squad and what I wanted to ask is. Is anyone else a little worried that our winger options are a little questionable?

Coutinho won't play on the wing.
Ibe is young and we don't know how good he is yet.
Markovic seems to be out of the picture.
Lallana isn't a winger.
Firmino isn't a winger, yes?
Origi, we don't know how he'll do.
Teixeira is another unknown quantity, might leave even.

We've got a lot of good attacking midfielders, but I'm a little worried that if we lack natural width and wingers who make runs and can beat defenders with their pace and skill, we might become too narrow and too easy to defend against. I thought it was a bit of an issue already against Stoke, we couldn't get behind their defence and, apart from Ibe, played too narrow. It's something to keep an eye on.

IMO we should get Pedro if he's available. Thoughts?

Your post assumes that we want to play with "wingers" this season, where I don't think we will. I'm betting that the set-up for the majority of the season resembles more closely the second half against Stoke than the first, with Coutinho and Firmino "wide", and Can in the midfield.

To be honest we've already seen the groundwork for this setup. Despite being set-up in roughly a 4-2-3-1 in the first half, our defensive shape was very different. Without the ball the set-up looked far more like this:
As you can see, Milner pushed forward to join the pressing, Henderson shifted to fill the CM position, and Lallana and Ibe dorpped back to cover the fullback runs.

The same effect can be achieved with the lineup above. This time, Cou and Firmino are the second-level, with Henderson, Can, and Milner spreading themselves across the midfield to cover:
Of course, as soon as possession is regained, Firmino pushes forward to join Benteke, Coutinho drops central, Hendo and Milner tuck in, and the fullbacks press forward for width:

It's a rough diagram, but the idea is there. There would obviously be a fair amount of freedom in positioning for Coutinho, Firmino, and likely even Milner in this setup, but it closely resembles tactics that have already served the club well.

Moreno, Can, Firmino, Sakho, Lucas/Allen.

We have great options on the bench to consolidate leading positions, I am happy with the squad atm but hate Rodgers formations.

We haven't been playing good football at all. Let's hope for better. The current formation is pretty shit I agree. Doesn't look like it gets the best out of the midfielders.

That's a really good sign, Grinding out results with below par performances. Can't wait for the team to hit full groove.

Nishy wrote:That's a really good sign, Grinding out results with below par performances. Can't wait for the team to hit full groove.

This.

I think our best formation right now would be:


Honestly I'd rather do Lovren - Sakho, but that won't happen. This line-up has a lot of balance I think. Both Clyne and Gomez can venture forward a bit, and both Henderson and Milner have experience as wide midfielders so there are options for providing width. Coutinho would have that free role and the middle of the pitch where he is so dangerous, and I think Firmino/Benteke would play really, really well off of eachother. Henderson, Can and Milner all have a bit of steel and industry to boss basically any midfield in the PL IMO, while our backline has been very tidy so far.

Just IMO.

we need this formation against Arsenal, so that the midfield is crowded. I saw their first game and I think West Hams formation played a big role in that. Although were off a bit, but we would have better chance if we have Firmino and Benteke playing off each other. I doubt Firmino will start though, seems difficult that Rodges would choose him over Ibe. That said, Ibe needs rest and Firmino needs game time so that he could settle down in the league.

I don't understand why Firmino is behind on fitness levels. Coutinho was at Copa America with Brazil and came back to training at the exact same time. Benteke had even less preparation this summer than Firmino.