How do you rate Mascherano as a CB & as a DM?

I don't see why Mascherano in midfield means a double pivot, you need some muscle in midfield if you have Neymar/Suarez in wide positions and Dani Alves bombing forward, as far as I know he's not untouchable and can be benched if it means better defensive performance from the team.

Double pivot doesn't mean it has to be in straight lines. Busquets could play slightly advanced.

-------------------------------Suarez-----------------
----Nerman-------------------------------------------
------------------------------Messi------------------
-----------Iniesta--------------------------------Alves
------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------Busquets-------------
------------------------------------------------------
--------------------Mascherano-----------------------
-----Mathieu------------------------------Bartra------
-----------------------Pique---------------------------

A lot of talk recently from Zubizarreta after the Mathieu signing that 3-4-3 is a tactical option. Possibly the main reason why a CB/LB hybrid like Mathieu was chased so hard to begin with (his alternative was apparently Blind who has a similar profile).

I think Barca need to seriously consider dropping Messi into a deeper, creative role and pass goal scoring responsibilities onto Neymar/Suarez... With all due respect, Messi's body can't handle the advance role anymore. His physical decline ruined his acceleration and now he can't make the runs he used to.
Disagree? I wanna see him pull a Riquelme off...

Not putting Busquets in the starting 11?

Just stop and sort yourself out lol

I don't think Messi is capable of being a Riquelme personally, it's just not who he is.

It's one of the reasons I have issues with him as a 10, he tries to dribble out of every situation.

I agree, his game is based largely on dribbling and beating men 1v1... But we all know he's capable of making some good passes.
Now, he is in physical decline. Does anybody doubt that?
His reactions aren't what they once were, which means he can't do what he's done to defences in years gone by. So he needs to work on his playmaking. Passing and moving as an effective midfielder.
Think Luka Modric and that kind of style.
Am I expressing my views adequately?

Messi just needs to run more... i don't care what position he plays. If you look like you're making zero effort DESPITE being the focal point, it's a bit shameful to me.

If Messi put in the effort, i'm sure he could play any attacking position he wanted... From a 10 all the way to CF. Problem with playing the 10 is that it requires more work without the ball than the CF position does.

Meh, if Busquets plays like his last 1.5 seasons he doesn't automatically deserve the spot. Some competition might be good for him, Song provides none.

always rate masch as a DM very highly his tackling is goat worthy, should give busquets a run, if they compete fair and square

Busquets on his worse day is leagues above Mascherano.

Busquets is a slow footed, tactical player...you take away structure and you get some of the issues he had recently, but his play has nothing to do with lack of effort or him assuming his position is assured.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Meh, if Busquets plays like his last 1.5 seasons he doesn't automatically deserve the spot. Some competition might be good for him, Song provides none.

that sounds reasonable to me, the few games I saw last season Busquets was not very good. Not to mention the WC where I thought he was absolutely abysmal...

idk dani busquets didn't seem that impressive last season, but then again barca as whole didn't look impressive, so lets see but i would like to see masch be given a string of games as DM for you guys

yeah busquets is slow and was getting beaten for pace a lot, but i figure that was more to do with the lack of pressing, that why i think masch could give him a run if players aren't pressing enough, just put masch in for some last ditch tackles

Yes only Betis, but it was a match Barca needed to win to stay in with a chance to win the league and literally every player (minus Busquets) was having a terrible game...in that game, Busquets performance was better than any performance Mascherano has had in his entire life

Its not his fault, Mascherano effort cant be faulted, but there are levels to this...Busquets has actual abilities, Mascherano just tries hard.

If pressing isnt good enough, Mascherano wont be saving anything. I feel like a couple world cup games got people fooled beyond measure. He aint good enough to start as the pivot, its really simple as that.

If we arent tactically on point, we going to suffer, dont matter who plays. If we are, Busquets as I said is a level, of not levels above anything Mascherano can dream of being.

Mascherano's different to Busquets. He's more aggressive and likely to attempt more tackles. However long term Busquets is the better option due to him being more intelligent and tactically better.

I don't really care for WC as the end all be all, just think masch save barca plenty of times due to last ditch tackles, sure busquets is a better players but masch ain't bad either, i think he can provide good competition

Nah, he has made a couple good tackles here and there...but its far outweighed by how many times he lost players, how many fouls he commits in dangerous positions or how badly he would struggle if he got pressed.

If one is to rate Mascherano based on just Barca, he's awful.

I recognise he is better than that, maybe he can even play instead of Busquets against the teams who dont press us. But I completely disagree with any notion of him starting ahead of Busquets in any meaningful situation.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Meh, if Busquets plays like his last 1.5 seasons he doesn't automatically deserve the spot. Some competition might be good for him, Song provides none.

^ This.

Busquets has not just been bad for club and country lately he has been almost totally anonymous.

I don't really know how people think he is better than Mascherano as Masch has had to do the hard work of converting into a central defender and then playing some CM sparingly.

Whereas when Busquets plays as a central defender he is decent but not good and his full time role as a CM of late has been down right a joke compared to what is expected out of a midfielder at Barcelona.

The more the team moves away from Pep's system the worse he gets and IMO is a total liability out there.

We all know DM's are not out there to be great offensive players but he is so bad offensively that when teams park the bus or play a conservative scheme against us (which is all the time) they don't even mark him anymore.

Not only do they totally ignore him as a goal scoring threat, they don't even believe he can make a killer pass to lead to a goal which there right because he either passes it backwards or sideways and just lets the other team clog the middle of the field with extra defenders to help mark Messi and co.

The only reason he is on the field anymore is because of his height and even then I see Masch win way more corners and aerial battles than he does.

Masch has been great for us and as much as some Barca fans want to get on his case he came in and learned a totally new position and then got thrown right in to the highest level of competition and done as good as can be expected.

Not to mention in some of the games we have been humiliated in, he looked the only player out there willing to fight to the end and not give up and pout (which Busquets is great at).

The absence of Pep and Puyol has really shined a light on how average Busquets and Pique really are.

Mascherano wins FC Barcelona player of the year for 2013/14

fcbarcelona.com

Carrying Messi at the NT and Club level

Mascherano is a better DM than Busquets anyway and should always have been playing there.

i've always said what dmac4 pointed out about the likes of busquets. he is a 'system' player, you can't be a defensive midfielder and be that soft....well, you can, when your team has 90 percent of the ball, a prime xavi and one of the best offensive players the world has seen in messi, coupled with other offensive threats like villa, henry, eto'o, zlatan etc..your attributes or lack thereof can be well masked; his positional awareness is good, especially when his team has the ball, but from the standpoint of being a defensive Juggernaut, making tackles and disrupting plays when his team is under threat he's no where near mascherano....pique, valdez, pedro, (on offense) are also system players.....they owe a lot to pep.

Poor Masch. My respect for him increased during/post the World Cup 2014 but that was painful to watch.

more of an unfortunate slip than a knock on his defending. the problem came from the midfield, and guys like pique so high up the pitch and out of position. masch isn't a good cb, never was, and by now with how long he has been consigned to playing that role, i'm sure he has forgotten how to play defensive mid by now.

A longer video is required to show the true ownage of that goal

https://streamable.com/3ihy

still an unfortunate slip with everyone pushed up so high. the ownage was more on pique. i didn't like the through-pass nutmeg danilo took in today's game that almost led to a goal scoring opportunity