What is the deal with Juve?

This year, I was very bored when I followed the CL. Inter and Bayern looked like their shadows from last year,Mancs don't have enough quality in the middle of the pitch, Chelski need to renew half of their squad (They're the AC Milan of a year ago), Man Sh!tty might spice up the competition (They can park the bus unlike Arsenal). So far so good... All of these clubs can come back next year to make it interesting.
Now,I really miss Liverpool and Juve in Europe. Liverpool are slowly coming back into their own, might need a year or two to get into their former CL monster form back. Juve, dear old lady, I waited 4 years for them to come back. What is the deal with them currently? I thought they would rebuild as soon as they got back from relegation...All I see are a bunch of average players in the squad with the odd big signing every year. Your management signs one top player per year, expect him to carry you and then sell next year afterwards as flops...
Krasic is cool, I really like him. I don't blame him that he was burnt out in the second half of the season because he is the only creative force there. A striker! Juve always had a deadly striker and a midfielder... No top strikers in 4-5 years!
What is the board doing? If you want to get back, you need a top striker and a very creative midfielder and let the others do the dirty job with Buffon (some cattenaccio football to get into CL places and then spend more). What is the current state of your management? Is there any way, you guys will be a top team gain in two years?
You know, once your name disappears from marketing, it would be super hard to gain fans outside of Italy = a huge source of income

babun1024 wrote:This year, I was very bored when I followed the CL. Inter and Bayern looked like their shadows from last year,Mancs don't have enough quality in the middle of the pitch, Chelski need to renew half of their squad (They're the AC Milan of a year ago), Man Sh!tty might spice up the competition (They can park the bus unlike Arsenal). So far so good... All of these clubs can come back next year to make it interesting.
Now,I really miss Liverpool and Juve in Europe. Liverpool are slowly coming back into their own, might need a year or two to get into their former CL monster form back. Juve, dear old lady, I waited 4 years for them to come back. What is the deal with them currently? I thought they would rebuild as soon as they got back from relegation...All I see are a bunch of average players in the squad with the odd big signing every year. Your management signs one top player per year, expect him to carry you and then sell next year afterwards as flops...
Krasic is cool, I really like him. I don't blame him that he was burnt out in the second half of the season because he is the only creative force there. A striker! Juve always had a deadly striker and a midfielder... No top strikers in 4-5 years!
What is the board doing? If you want to get back, you need a top striker and a very creative midfielder and let the others do the dirty job with Buffon (some cattenaccio football to get into CL places and then spend more). What is the current state of your management? Is there any way, you guys will be a top team gain in two years?
You know, once your name disappears from marketing, it would be super hard to gain fans outside of Italy = a huge source of income

uh oh,get ready

I have high hopes for Juve next year.

They need to make a few key signings. I believe that no european distraction will act as a blessing and they will secure a CL place and challenge for the league.

My first thoughts....

Is there a race who gets -100 rep first?

You know this season was the only season they weren't in the Champions league. The season before, they were there.

Ganso wrote:

uh oh,get ready

Buffon, an old ADP and Krasic, the rest is pretty much meh like you always say...

they are busy building a stadium

ronaldo__9 wrote:You know this season was the only season they weren't in the Champions league. The season before, they were there.

It's about the perspectives, you have to have a perspective for at least 3-5 years and attract top players or you won't be able to compete on highest level.

babun1024 wrote:

Ganso wrote:

uh oh,get ready

Buffon, an old ADP and Krasic, the rest is pretty much meh like you always say...

Marchisio
Chiellini
Melo
Matri

These are not average players.

Ganso wrote:

babun1024 wrote:This year, I was very bored when I followed the CL. Inter and Bayern looked like their shadows from last year,Mancs don't have enough quality in the middle of the pitch, Chelski need to renew half of their squad (They're the AC Milan of a year ago), Man Sh!tty might spice up the competition (They can park the bus unlike Arsenal). So far so good... All of these clubs can come back next year to make it interesting.
Now,I really miss Liverpool and Juve in Europe. Liverpool are slowly coming back into their own, might need a year or two to get into their former CL monster form back. Juve, dear old lady, I waited 4 years for them to come back. What is the deal with them currently? I thought they would rebuild as soon as they got back from relegation...All I see are a bunch of average players in the squad with the odd big signing every year. Your management signs one top player per year, expect him to carry you and then sell next year afterwards as flops...
Krasic is cool, I really like him. I don't blame him that he was burnt out in the second half of the season because he is the only creative force there. A striker! Juve always had a deadly striker and a midfielder... No top strikers in 4-5 years!
What is the board doing? If you want to get back, you need a top striker and a very creative midfielder and let the others do the dirty job with Buffon (some cattenaccio football to get into CL places and then spend more). What is the current state of your management? Is there any way, you guys will be a top team gain in two years?
You know, once your name disappears from marketing, it would be super hard to gain fans outside of Italy = a huge source of income

uh oh,get ready

Get ready for what? He's right... Marrotta went ahead and spent over 70m just signing players from Mid table teams. Pepe, Martinez, Motta etc... This is Juventus, we need to sign champions. The time is now. Thats why Moggi has been criticizing

I wouldn't say that the team is that weak.. they could have done much more last summer, but I can see they are having issues with the managment and all that.. some poor decision making.

However, there are some classy players there, and I guess they are still focusing on building the framework of the club..something which takes time to be built. With people like Buffon, Chiellini, Bonucci, Marchisio, Del Piero Quagliarella, Matri, I would strongly disagree about them being a team of average players. Some smart signings, and the adaption of the team/coach will bring its results..

and this coming from an inter fan

izzy26 wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

Ganso wrote:

uh oh,get ready

Buffon, an old ADP and Krasic, the rest is pretty much meh like you always say...

Marchisio
Chiellini
Melo
Matri

These are not average players.

melo-average
matri-average
chiellini-world class
marchisio-good

sciacca wrote:
Get ready for what? He's right... Marrotta went ahead and spent over 70m just signing players from Mid table teams. Pepe, Martinez, Motta etc... This is Juventus, we need to sign champions. The time is now. Thats why Moggi has been criticizing

Exactly how I feel about Juve... A top striker and a midfielder are top priority I think. You can fix up the rest later. They should be around 20-25 years old,preferably

izzy26 wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

Ganso wrote:

uh oh,get ready

Buffon, an old ADP and Krasic, the rest is pretty much meh like you always say...

Marchisio
Chiellini
Melo
Matri

These are not average players.

Oops! How could I forget Chellini...He isn't average off course! In near future, Krasic and Chellini will be the backbones, ADP will retire, so will Buffon. The management needs to act fast...

babun1024 wrote:

sciacca wrote:
Get ready for what? He's right... Marrotta went ahead and spent over 70m just signing players from Mid table teams. Pepe, Martinez, Motta etc... This is Juventus, we need to sign champions. The time is now. Thats why Moggi has been criticizing

Exactly how I feel about Juve... A top striker and a midfielder are top priority I think. You can fix up the rest later. They should be around 20-25 years old,preferably

Yes, agreed, however I would also add fullbacks which in this case was our biggest downfall this season.

It comes to the point u have to ask, the players are good enuf, but are the team as well?

This juvi remnds me of the early 2000s Inter that always failed no matter what. we had the same problems ! average coaches, bad transfers, tons of money wasted on flops, and no winning mentality

i think juvi should not be taking a risk on conte but instead hire a WC proven manager no matter how much its costs. Juvi has a leadership crises and you feel like they have no direction, every season there's a new coach, new formation, new players, and a new phylosophy

sciacca wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

sciacca wrote:
Get ready for what? He's right... Marrotta went ahead and spent over 70m just signing players from Mid table teams. Pepe, Martinez, Motta etc... This is Juventus, we need to sign champions. The time is now. Thats why Moggi has been criticizing

Exactly how I feel about Juve... A top striker and a midfielder are top priority I think. You can fix up the rest later. They should be around 20-25 years old,preferably

Yes, agreed, however I would also add fullbacks which in this case was our biggest downfall this season.

But Beck won`t fix this issue yet

Sure he is a good talent, but not ready to make an impact

babun1024 wrote:This year, I was very bored when I followed the CL. Inter and Bayern looked like their shadows from last year,Mancs don't have enough quality in the middle of the pitch, Chelski need to renew half of their squad (They're the AC Milan of a year ago), Man Sh!tty might spice up the competition (They can park the bus unlike Arsenal). So far so good... All of these clubs can come back next year to make it interesting.
Now,I really miss Liverpool and Juve in Europe. Liverpool are slowly coming back into their own, might need a year or two to get into their former CL monster form back. Juve, dear old lady, I waited 4 years for them to come back. What is the deal with them currently? I thought they would rebuild as soon as they got back from relegation...All I see are a bunch of average players in the squad with the odd big signing every year. Your management signs one top player per year, expect him to carry you and then sell next year afterwards as flops...
Krasic is cool, I really like him. I don't blame him that he was burnt out in the second half of the season because he is the only creative force there. A striker! Juve always had a deadly striker and a midfielder... No top strikers in 4-5 years!
What is the board doing? If you want to get back, you need a top striker and a very creative midfielder and let the others do the dirty job with Buffon (some cattenaccio football to get into CL places and then spend more). What is the current state of your management? Is there any way, you guys will be a top team gain in two years?
You know, once your name disappears from marketing, it would be super hard to gain fans outside of Italy = a huge source of income

A few things:

1) Krasic is burned out admittedly because he's been without a break for two-years due to the Russian League's schedule, and the World Cup.

2) Calciopoli saw us lose all but the "Big Five" of Del Piero, Nedved, Buffon, Camoranesi, and Trezeguet. When we lost the rest of the players, not only did the squad decline, but we also lost about €250M which our staff has been able to settle.

3) The management post-Calciopoli was brutal. The worst names were Jean-Claude Blanc and Alessio Secco. Blanc is a businessman through and through, but he was appointed to be kind of the man who could do both a business and football job, which he was not qualified for. You see, he did some very good business moves; Juventus turned a profit (which few Italians teams did) and secured building plans for the new stadium opening this year, which he also was able to turn around the money and make it so we were able to stay in the green. But footballing wise, as you said, mediocracy.

Alessio Secco was the worst though; his transfers consisted of Tiago, Amauri, Molinaro, Grygera, Diego, Felipe Melo, Salihamidzic, Almiron, Poulsen, Sissoko, Melbourg, etc. He spent nearly €75M just on the Brazilian trio, with the only defendable one of the trio being Melo, with Amauri flopping and being sold, and Diego being sold for a lesser fee than what we paid. The amount of money he spent should have resulted in a great team, but Poulsen was sold, Tiago is on loan for two years and we aren't even getting the damn fee from Atletico Madrid, Grygera is a third-depth player, Salihamidzic has aged, Almiron was on loan to Bari and was eventually sold by Marotta this year but after a significant amount of time, Molinaro is playing for Stuttgart, etc.

To make matters worse, he also gave away a lot of youth and "good" players like Federico Balzaretti (arguably the best Italian LB today), Domenico Criscito (arguably once again the best youth Italian LB), Nocerino (one of the best Italian CM today). So the problem then arose that because we gave them away, we needed to find replacements; Grygera, etc. on LB and Felipe Melo for a whopping transfer fee at CM along with Sissoko and Poulsen when we could have kept all three and had a better team today.

Secco was under Luciano Moggi as his assistant, and the bastard did nothing and learned nothing evidently.

4) The management has been changed this year to Andrea Agnelli, who is the fourth-generation I believe of Agnelli's to head Juventus. He is very good because football is in his blood, but he and his cousin John Elkann are businessmen, heading FIAT which is based in Torino, where Juventus is situated. I have faith in him. You see, if Juventus wanted to, we could spend a TON of money, considering FIAT's revenue last year was €50B, however we never really spent big in the past, yet we won. This is because we had guys like Moggi, who signed Zidane for €3.5M, got Mutu on free-transfer, got Davids for €3.5M, and got Cannavaro relatively cheap. Real Madrid bought Zidane, and with the money, he bought Nedved, Buffon, and Thuram...three world-class players. That was his talent, and that is why we succeeded. He was also the first big guy to get Thierry Henry, though he sold him after a year due to the fact he wasn't fitting in.

5) Coaching wise, we used to have guys like Marcello Lippi, Fabio Capello, Didier Deschamps, etc. However, recently we've had guys like Claudio Ranieri, and last season Ciro Ferrara and Alberto Zaccheroni. This year we had Luigi Del Neri. Ranieri wasn't the problem; I believe he got about 146 points in two years which was great, but the club fired him presumably because he didn't win, and their transfers looked pathetic, so they had to have a scapegoat. In came Ciro Ferrara. He was a great Juventus veteran, but he was being asked to, for the first time, coach a team. The team was the most historic in Italy (Juve), and had problems which needed to be solved. He wasn't ready, and the results showed. Zaccheroni was called in quickly, but he was even worse; he was a mediocre coach at best outside of Juventus, winning only a "lucky" Scudetto elsewhere. Both coaches however have done well at their new posts; Italy U-21 and Japan's national team. I felt bad for Ferrara because he needed more time. Del Neri had done wonders at Sampdoria, alongside our director Marotta; Sampdoria were a Serie B team and last year they came in the top half of the table and qualified for Champion's League. Del Neri started off well, but our management gave him little support, and out he went.

6) Giuseppe Marotta has been pretty good, but pretty bad at the same time;

6b) Good: Quagliarella, Matri, Bonucci, Aquilani, Krasic, Pepe, Storari, Sorenssen.

6c) Bad: Martinez, Rinaudo, Motta, etc.

So basically, he is doing alright, but he is a little shaky at times and doesn't take on opportunities like Lucas Piazon, who slipped away to Chelsea when he was 95% ours.

7) Addressing your question; "Will Juventus be a strong side in the next two years ?"

Honestly ? I think so. Antonio Conte is our new coach, an ex-capitano of Juventus who actually played alongside Del Piero. What I like about him is that he came from Siena, a side very close to Juventus, and got them promoted twice while, as he said, "spending the least, and selling the most." He loves youth, and that is showing as he already wants to buy back Palladino (50% of his rights), and get back Giovinco from loan. He also said his Juventus would "have balls." As you can recall, this season, we had the best record against the top seven teams, but we stuttered against smaller teams. That is because of the lack of mentality, and hopefully that can be restored with Conte. Conte also wants talent, something which Juventus' previous directors were foreign to.

We need to start buying quality over quantity. Enough with buying an abundance of mediocracy to portray a sense of strength. We need to spend smartly, and buy the biggest and best names, or start to use our youth. Our youth team is top three in the world, but you wouldn't know it. Names like Miccoli, Giovinco, Nocerino, Criscito, De Sanctis, etc. were all from our academy. They were sold though understandably because Moggi had better names; Buffon, Thuram, Vieri, Del Piero, etc. but now, there is little excuses. Juventus have to stop being cocky; we aren't "good enough" to play youth, we need to start doing it if we want success.

I hope THAT answers your question. That took me a good little while so hopefully that gets rid of my -4 reputation.

JuvenelCuore wrote:

babun1024 wrote:This year, I was very bored when I followed the CL. Inter and Bayern looked like their shadows from last year,Mancs don't have enough quality in the middle of the pitch, Chelski need to renew half of their squad (They're the AC Milan of a year ago), Man Sh!tty might spice up the competition (They can park the bus unlike Arsenal). So far so good... All of these clubs can come back next year to make it interesting.
Now,I really miss Liverpool and Juve in Europe. Liverpool are slowly coming back into their own, might need a year or two to get into their former CL monster form back. Juve, dear old lady, I waited 4 years for them to come back. What is the deal with them currently? I thought they would rebuild as soon as they got back from relegation...All I see are a bunch of average players in the squad with the odd big signing every year. Your management signs one top player per year, expect him to carry you and then sell next year afterwards as flops...
Krasic is cool, I really like him. I don't blame him that he was burnt out in the second half of the season because he is the only creative force there. A striker! Juve always had a deadly striker and a midfielder... No top strikers in 4-5 years!
What is the board doing? If you want to get back, you need a top striker and a very creative midfielder and let the others do the dirty job with Buffon (some cattenaccio football to get into CL places and then spend more). What is the current state of your management? Is there any way, you guys will be a top team gain in two years?
You know, once your name disappears from marketing, it would be super hard to gain fans outside of Italy = a huge source of income

A few things:

1) Krasic is burned out admittedly because he's been without a break for two-years due to the Russian League's schedule, and the World Cup.

2) Calciopoli saw us lose all but the "Big Five" of Del Piero, Nedved, Buffon, Camoranesi, and Trezeguet. When we lost the rest of the players, not only did the squad decline, but we also lost about €250M which our staff has been able to settle.

3) The management post-Calciopoli was brutal. The worst names were Jean-Claude Blanc and Alessio Secco. Blanc is a businessman through and through, but he was appointed to be kind of the man who could do both a business and football job, which he was not qualified for. You see, he did some very good business moves; Juventus turned a profit (which few Italians teams did) and secured building plans for the new stadium opening this year, which he also was able to turn around the money and make it so we were able to stay in the green. But footballing wise, as you said, mediocracy.

Alessio Secco was the worst though; his transfers consisted of Tiago, Amauri, Molinaro, Grygera, Diego, Felipe Melo, Salihamidzic, Almiron, Poulsen, Sissoko, Melbourg, etc. He spent nearly €75M just on the Brazilian trio, with the only defendable one of the trio being Melo, with Amauri flopping and being sold, and Diego being sold for a lesser fee than what we paid. The amount of money he spent should have resulted in a great team, but Poulsen was sold, Tiago is on loan for two years and we aren't even getting the damn fee from Atletico Madrid, Grygera is a third-depth player, Salihamidzic has aged, Almiron was on loan to Bari and was eventually sold by Marotta this year but after a significant amount of time, Molinaro is playing for Stuttgart, etc.

To make matters worse, he also gave away a lot of youth and "good" players like Federico Balzaretti (arguably the best Italian LB today), Domenico Criscito (arguably once again the best youth Italian LB), Nocerino (one of the best Italian CM today). So the problem then arose that because we gave them away, we needed to find replacements; Grygera, etc. on LB and Felipe Melo for a whopping transfer fee at CM along with Sissoko and Poulsen when we could have kept all three and had a better team today.

Secco was under Luciano Moggi as his assistant, and the bastard did nothing and learned nothing evidently.

4) The management has been changed this year to Andrea Agnelli, who is the fourth-generation I believe of Agnelli's to head Juventus. He is very good because football is in his blood, but he and his cousin John Elkann are businessmen, heading FIAT which is based in Torino, where Juventus is situated. I have faith in him. You see, if Juventus wanted to, we could spend a TON of money, considering FIAT's revenue last year was €50B, however we never really spent big in the past, yet we won. This is because we had guys like Moggi, who signed Zidane for €3.5M, got Mutu on free-transfer, got Davids for €3.5M, and got Cannavaro relatively cheap. Real Madrid bought Zidane, and with the money, he bought Nedved, Buffon, and Thuram...three world-class players. That was his talent, and that is why we succeeded. He was also the first big guy to get Thierry Henry, though he sold him after a year due to the fact he wasn't fitting in.

5) Coaching wise, we used to have guys like Marcello Lippi, Fabio Capello, Didier Deschamps, etc. However, recently we've had guys like Claudio Ranieri, and last season Ciro Ferrara and Alberto Zaccheroni. This year we had Luigi Del Neri. Ranieri wasn't the problem; I believe he got about 146 points in two years which was great, but the club fired him presumably because he didn't win, and their transfers looked pathetic, so they had to have a scapegoat. In came Ciro Ferrara. He was a great Juventus veteran, but he was being asked to, for the first time, coach a team. The team was the most historic in Italy (Juve), and had problems which needed to be solved. He wasn't ready, and the results showed. Zaccheroni was called in quickly, but he was even worse; he was a mediocre coach at best outside of Juventus, winning only a "lucky" Scudetto elsewhere. Both coaches however have done well at their new posts; Italy U-21 and Japan's national team. I felt bad for Ferrara because he needed more time. Del Neri had done wonders at Sampdoria, alongside our director Marotta; Sampdoria were a Serie B team and last year they came in the top half of the table and qualified for Champion's League. Del Neri started off well, but our management gave him little support, and out he went.

6) Giuseppe Marotta has been pretty good, but pretty bad at the same time;

6b) Good: Quagliarella, Matri, Bonucci, Aquilani, Krasic, Pepe, Storari, Sorenssen.

6c) Bad: Martinez, Rinaudo, Motta, etc.

So basically, he is doing alright, but he is a little shaky at times and doesn't take on opportunities like Lucas Piazon, who slipped away to Chelsea when he was 95% ours.

7) Addressing your question; "Will Juventus be a strong side in the next two years ?"

Honestly ? I think so. Antonio Conte is our new coach, an ex-capitano of Juventus who actually played alongside Del Piero. What I like about him is that he came from Siena, a side very close to Juventus, and got them promoted twice while, as he said, "spending the least, and selling the most." He loves youth, and that is showing as he already wants to buy back Palladino (50% of his rights), and get back Giovinco from loan. He also said his Juventus would "have balls." As you can recall, this season, we had the best record against the top seven teams, but we stuttered against smaller teams. That is because of the lack of mentality, and hopefully that can be restored with Conte. Conte also wants talent, something which Juventus' previous directors were foreign to.

We need to start buying quality over quantity. Enough with buying an abundance of mediocracy to portray a sense of strength. We need to spend smartly, and buy the biggest and best names, or start to use our youth. Our youth team is top three in the world, but you wouldn't know it. Names like Miccoli, Giovinco, Nocerino, Criscito, De Sanctis, etc. were all from our academy. They were sold though understandably because Moggi had better names; Buffon, Thuram, Vieri, Del Piero, etc. but now, there is little excuses. Juventus have to stop being cocky; we aren't "good enough" to play youth, we need to start doing it if we want success.

I hope THAT answers your question. That took me a good little while so hopefully that gets rid of my -4 reputation.

Damn, I can't vote otherwise, you'd get many rep ups from me. Thank you for the complete answer. After I read your post, I think that you guys really need a manager+coach who can build a team from scratch. Veterans aren't an option, they need at least some part of the squad functioning...

Neo wrote:

sciacca wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

sciacca wrote:
Get ready for what? He's right... Marrotta went ahead and spent over 70m just signing players from Mid table teams. Pepe, Martinez, Motta etc... This is Juventus, we need to sign champions. The time is now. Thats why Moggi has been criticizing

Exactly how I feel about Juve... A top striker and a midfielder are top priority I think. You can fix up the rest later. They should be around 20-25 years old,preferably

Yes, agreed, however I would also add fullbacks which in this case was our biggest downfall this season.

But Beck won`t fix this issue yet

Sure he is a good talent, but not ready to make an impact

Well hopefully Lich does it..

By the way Nick +1. Perfectly said.

Juventus should never have sold Diego and they need to sign Podolski and Cavani if they want to be successful again.

Next season there will only be 3 teams representing Seria A which will make it more difficult....

I wonder why the didn't bother with Klose, Hamit and such and such free players

I think Juventus need a LB, a new DM, a new LW and a WC striker like for example Tevez.

Idrisozet wrote:Juventus should never have sold Diego and they need to sign Podolski and Cavani if they want to be successful again.

Next season there will only be 3 teams representing Seria A which will make it more difficult....

I wonder why the didn't bother with Klose, Hamit and such and such free players

Disagreed. We already have Matri and Quag. There's no room for a CF. We need an SS.

Klose is too old, we need to rebuild by buying youth.