Did Pep Guardiola introduce new football concepts/tactics?

Was reading that locked thread of Xavi commenting Mourinho wont be remembered as a innovative manager etc., was wondering, do u all agree? That Mourinho is just good at man management and current tactics abe to combine everything into a winning formula and team, and not able to invent or bring some new ideas?

Did Pep Guardiola do something at that level?

made me laugh , thank you .

He introduced Ovrebo if that's what you're looking for..

Pep Time .

He simply combined Rijkards Barcelona tactics with Aragones Spain tactics...

Well first off let's say that there is no "inventing" in football, only recycling and improving. On one hand you can argue that Pep only applied Cruyff's concepts to the modern game, who he himself only applied Rinus Michael's concepts, who he applied Jack Reynold's concepts, who he applied concepts he saw from the Hungary and River Plate teams of the 1950s, and so on. So some people might try to discredit Guardiola saying he didn't come up with these concepts himself, therefore not "revolutionizing" the sport or bringing new ideas.

I disagree, Guardiola's style was quite counter-cultural at the time he started managing. He instituted a system that depended on possession, dynamic players, high pressing, "half-touch" passing, and a lot of patience. The components of this system may not be Guardiola's invention, but the combined result most definitely is and it will go down in football history as a remarkable team. As a result, he has been able to bring back technical midfielders back to the forefront to the public eye, turn a second best player in the world into the first GOAT of the new century, and his team is a constant reminder that athleticism and strength are only second to skill and technique in football, as it should be. Perhaps most importantly of all though: he won 6/6 titles in his first year, becoming the first club to ever do so, and 14/19 he competed for. On that winning strike alone, he'll go down in history.

Adding on to that Guardiola has always been game for trying new tactical approaches, such as converting Sergio Busquets into a sweeper for some games. This role has now been copied by Bilbao, who have used Iturraspe there and Luis Enrique, who has used DDR there.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Well first off let's say that there is no "inventing" in football, only recycling and improving. On one hand you can argue that Pep only applied Cruyff's concepts to the modern game, who he himself only applied Rinus Michael's concepts, who he applied Jack Reynold's concepts, who he applied concepts he saw from the Hungary and River Plate teams of the 1950s, and so on. So some people might try to discredit Guardiola saying he didn't come up with these concepts himself, therefore not "revolutionizing" the sport or bringing new ideas.

I disagree, Guardiola's style was quite counter-cultural at the time he started managing. He instituted a system that depended on possession, dynamic players, high pressing, "half-touch" passing, and a lot of patience. The components of this system may not be Guardiola's invention, but the combined result most definitely is and it will go down in football history as a remarkable team. As a result, he has been able to bring back technical midfielders back to the forefront to the public eye, turn a second best player in the world into the first GOAT of the new century, and his team is a constant reminder that athleticism and strength are only second to skill and technique in football, as it should be. Perhaps most importantly of all though: he won 6/6 titles in his first year, becoming the first club to ever do so, and 14/19 he competed for. On that winning strike alone, he'll go down in history.

Adding on to that Guardiola has always been game for trying new tactical approaches, such as converting Sergio Busquets into a libero for some games. This role has now been copied by Bilbao, who have used Iturraspe there and Luis Enrique, who has used DDR there.

long story short...no...

You seem to have missed my main point: "The components of this system may not be Guardiola's invention, but the combined result most definitely is."

BarrileteCosmico wrote:You seem to have missed my main point: "The components of this system may not be Guardiola's invention, but the combined result most definitely is."

again....no...

Mind actually replying with more than a one word answer?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Mind actually replying with more than a one word answer?

those were two

It's a hard question to answer as football has been played for such a long time by so many different teams, countries and cultures that one could argue anything you say Pep invented has been done before.

For people saying he just took Rijkaard system and VDB and put them together is just a lazy and uninformed answer.

I for one have never seen anyone play such a dangerously high line and open style of football and concede very few goals. I wont dig for the stats but I believe in La Liga almost every year he was there they let up the least amount of goals.

And that is with a very average keeper IMO.

In fact it wasn't until Pep got to Barca that Spain started dominating like they have been so I would say it's the opposite as VDB used Pep's players and system to break through and start winning and becoming the one of the best national teams in history just like Barca being one of the best club teams in history during Pep's reign.

I mean look at today's game vs Italy and that's all the proof you need. 6 midfielders no strikers, a high line and overlapping full backs.

I will say this I have never seen any coach or team value keeping the ball like Pep and Barca and I don't think some of there Posession numbers will be challenged again.

The striker less formation has been done before but not to the success as he did it. While combining that with basically playing midfielders a CB's as well and trying to just put midfielders all over the pitch was something that was very different.

So IMO yes he is an inventive manager. HE perfected other tactics and combined some to make the way Barca plays very unique and effective. He also started the trend of playing a team full of midgets and valuing skill over speed and strength which was not common anywhere before. And again playing with such physically limited players and letting up very little goals is something I have never seen, the theory always was you need strength and height somewhere on the field and he proved there's other ways to skin a cat.

I also have never seen teams react to the way they played like teams did with this Barca team. Teams made up of millions of dollars and superstars parking the bus to IMO un heard of levels. IT was very rare to see teams outside of Spain in the CL go head to head with them or at least try and play some sort of an open game, I know this has been done to teams in the past but not to the level teams made up of such good players did it to Barca.

Reverse Christmas Tree formation

/thread

nasir6371 wrote:Reverse Christmas Tree formation

/thread

It was a 3-3-4!

re-introduced Spaleti's tactics in Roma.

invented most successful false 9

I thought it was well documented that he used Bielsa's ideas and built on that.

He obviously did.

For instances, many teams in the past have started building from the back, but none have been as fundamentalist as Pep's Barça.

An example of this, was the 2009 Cup final, were Barça passed from the Back with Athletic pressin on our area, passing the ball to the CB who were almost on the byline outside the box. I'm sure this was done for the first time by Pep's Barça.

IMO, Pepe generally invented when it comes to tactics for the build up. I don't think any other team has played with 2 open CB, 2 FB wide and pushing up when building from the back before Pep. Also, the DM coming deeper and then forming a 3 man backline for the build up I think it's Pep's invention.

It is also possible, that Pep invented the movement of our wing forwards, who move from wide to center, drop deep, wide again, cut in a diagonal... depending on the stage of play, but in this case I'm not sure and it well may have been done before.

Obviously, posession, pressing , fake 9, attacking football... all this has been done before, but Pep took it into another level.

My best guess is the high pressing . There was pressing and even some high pressing before Guardiola , but not this kind . They seem like their mother's life depends on if they regain the ball in the next minute , it's shocking how much and effectively they have been pressing these years.

It's the best tactical , cohesive and collective high pressing the game has ever seen , and the most outrageous fact is that players like Xavi , Iniesta , Messi , basicaly any technical player at Barcelona excelled at it ,

unless you know , Ibrahimovic , doesn't know what pressing means .

I've not quite seen anything like it before ,not in quality nor in quantity , and especialy that high and stretched. Noone has ever been even close .

jibers wrote:long story short...no...

So you ask a question from a member who frankly gave you a very comprehensive answer only to give a cheap reply? Believe me, it is extremely difficult to win the 'Most Retarded Comment on Goal Legacy' but you sir deserve it this time.

On topic: No, Guardiola didn't invent anything. Of course, his effect on the Barcelona team, the trophies they won and the way they played was significant however:

1- These methods are combination and modernisation of previous methods such as Total Football, influenced on the Catalan club by the likes of Cruyff, Raxach et al. The trophies that Guardiola won are not only due to his philosophies and efforts, but for those which Barcelona, as a football club have been planning and nurturing for decades.

2- To play a certain type of football, you need certain players at your disposal. Do you think Guardiola would have succeeded with the same methods if he was managing Stoke City?

Also I don't buy the 'Barcelona's way is the correct way to play football'. There is no correct way to play football. Did anyone miss watching Chelsea of 2012 and Inter of 2010 winning against this very team using completely different styles and tactics? For me the closest thing to being correct is to play is to play to your players' strengths.

To answer the question,2 things come to mind which he tried to implement this season,although with limited success.Actually make that 3.
First is the playing with 7,8 midfielders in the same side.I cant think of another side in the history of the game that played with so many midfielders at one time.He basically overloaded the defense and forward line with midfielders.
Second innovation I can think of is his interpretation of 3 at the back.
I might be wrong on this but I cant think of any other side playing a back 3 composed of not even a single regular CB.At times this season we played a converted CM as the sweeper and fullbacks as the other 2 in a back 3.I havent seen such a bold variation before.I might be wrong though.
The third innovation is his use of Busquets to seamlessly and quickly switch between formations during matches.The classic example is the 3-1 Bernabeau Clasico,where Busquets played a hybrid CB,sweeper,CM,DM role and the team alternated between 3-4-3,4-3-3,4-4-2 throughout the match.
Though I have the confess that this was made possible entirely due to the genius and awareness of Busquets.Pep couldnt have done it with any other player.Just like Michels needed the genius of Cruyff to implement Total Football.
So thats 3 innovations that I can think of although the second one might have been done before.

This without even mentioning Pep implementing his interpretation of the Cruyff brand of football,implementing pressing at a never before seen level, making the false nine famous again by playing Messi there and taking possession based attacking football to its glorious extreme.

He introduced a few and combined/improved upon other ideas, therefore he did.

Loool not sure to take this thread seriously or not....meh

Although good responses above.... I think he did, or at the very least, he took football to an even higher level. The pressing in much he really perfected, how many of the top teams today u see do it? MAny teams have been influenced by Barca and try to play some of their style now, or learn some aspects. I think a few years back b4 Pep, we didnt have so many teams pressing so high so hard so collectively thats for sure.

It will be interesting to see how Pep progresses in the future, in his future career, if he sticks to his style or will he evolve and adapt and play other styles or variations if he manages another club or something....

He didn't invent anything new. Teams have been pressing like that for years. Ajax under Michels, the Dutch under MIchels, Barcelona youth teams have been pressing like that for years, but IU suppose Pep made them up. The short passing has been used by plent teams, such as Ukraine and Dinamo Kiev. The name Tiki taka was actually first used on the spanish NT in the euro 2008 tournament.

Pep Innovated nothing. The false striker was most notably used by Serie A legend Totti under Spaletti. It was also used by Ferguson in United's 08 team as well. But anything Barcelona do is innovation. They invented short passing after all. Before Pep teams you to bypass the whole pitch and just play GK to GK balls.

Divine Intervention wrote:He didn't invent anything new. Teams have been pressing like that for years. Ajax under Michels, the Dutch under MIchels, Barcelona youth teams have been pressing like that for years, but IU suppose Pep made them up. The short passing has been used by plent teams, such as Ukraine and Dinamo Kiev. The name Tiki taka was actually first used on the spanish NT in the euro 2008 tournament.

Pep Innovated nothing. The false striker was most notably used by Serie A legend Totti under Spaletti. It was also used by Ferguson in United's 08 team as well. But anything Barcelona do is innovation. They invented short passing after all. Before Pep teams you to bypass the whole pitch and just play GK to GK balls.

LMFAOOOOOOOO