Should we buy......

Quite a few people who said he was slow had never even seen him play though.

He's not really slow at all. Its just he's big and so he looks slow. A bit like Kompany, you wouldn't say he's slow. IMO he's actually quite a fast mover when he's going.

The thing is he's not quick off the mark and turns a little slowly, but this is worse at LB. He's generally good positionally and reads the game well (this is like Puyol, who isn't that quick either, but his brain works quickly), so this makes him better than Song and maybe Masch already as neither really make the right movements for a CB. It doesn't come naturally.

Even if Song was as fast as Usain Bolt I'd take Vertonghen. IMO we just need a natural defender. We shouldn't be scared of signing someone who isn't lightning just because Chygrynskiy was an epic fail.

I'm not saying he's the perfect fit, but he was cheaper than Song...

Oh yeah I certainly agree with you. Was very happy when Spurs signed him, because I knew they had a fantastic player on their hands.

I'm not going to call him world class or anything, but he is quite good, and he would have been both better than Song, and cheaper than Song. Given the fact that he's a natural defender and very versatile, he would have been an amazing buy, despite his pace (and on that note I agree with you as well, he's a bit slow off the mark, but other than that, he's not particularly slow at all).

Oh, something else good about him- quite a fierce left foot, and he likes to join the attack from the back. He's scored twice for Spurs already, and he racked up quite a few goals for someone playing CB/DM for Ajax. He would a long shot threat for us, if we bought him.

Although we must look to the future...

CBarca wrote:
Oh, something else good about him- quite a fierce left foot, and he likes to join the attack from the back. He's scored twice for Spurs already, and he racked up quite a few goals for someone playing CB/DM for Ajax. He would a long shot threat for us, if we bought him.

Although we must look to the future...

Was going to mention this, but probs irrelevant. However, I do love it. It would be a nice compliment to Messi & Xavi on freekicks. Two standing over it and the cannon at the back for the surprise bullet shot.

He should stop playing LB for Tottenham though. Defensively, he's not best there. I just think he's so good going forward they want him on the flank, but he's best in the centre.

I wasnt high on Vertoghen, as in I wasnt convinced he was without doubt the player we should sign.

However, If I knew we was going to get Song instead I would of been more vocal about my preference for Vert.

BarcaKizz wrote:

CBarca wrote:
Oh, something else good about him- quite a fierce left foot, and he likes to join the attack from the back. He's scored twice for Spurs already, and he racked up quite a few goals for someone playing CB/DM for Ajax. He would a long shot threat for us, if we bought him.

Although we must look to the future...

Was going to mention this, but probs irrelevant. However, I do love it. It would be a nice compliment to Messi & Xavi on freekicks. Two standing over it and the cannon at the back for the surprise bullet shot.

He should stop playing LB for Tottenham though. Defensively, he's not best there. I just think he's so good going forward they want him on the flank, but he's best in the centre.

I agree that he isn't so good at LB defensively. I think he was found out many times against Man U alone.

Only reason he's playing there right now is BAE's injury.

Vert has been fantastic for Spurs, a lot better than i'd thought he would be.

Probably one of the better signings of this past window.

About other possibilities this has probably brought up a thousand times before but how about Garay?

Barca too afraid of a defender who isnt quick to actually spend money on one. But I would be for it. He is good on the ball and importantly, tall.

Benfica will ask for the world though seeing as Luisao is 33 and been banned for 4 months

Is height the prime attribute then?

I was thinking about mentioning in Yanga Mbiwa who is out of contract in the summer.

Fast, very good in 1 v 1, technically good, strong but because of his height he can be got at in the air he's not bad in the air but has limitations.

He reminds me of Thuram actually.

I was thinking as long as Pique's there then it doesn't matter as much and replacing Puyol with someone who has similar attributes would be higher on the agenda.

Well no, not the prime attribute but I would say next after being decent with the ball, composed and so on it should be. RG has said many times Yanga, at this point any centerback who is anyone rates I am wplayinilling to consider...we are playing leftbacks at centerback in the hardest game of the year such is the state we are in lol

I get what you mean though, as in Puyols tanacity, energy, quickness (in his prime) needs replacing more than size (as we have Pique) but at the same time we kind of need both...really we need anybody at this point.

I'm not sure if this is what Dani means, but what I do think is that, along with all the attributes a typical Barca CB would need-

The Franchise wrote:being decent with the ball, composed and so on it should be.

Having more height in our team is always a good thing. It's not something we necessarily NEED for our CB of choice, but it's certainly something that will be looked at, and it's always going to be helpful for us, due to our lack of height.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:He reminds me of Thuram actually.

Damn, so it's not just me.

CBarca wrote:I'm not sure if this is what Dani means, but what I do think is that, along with all the attributes a typical Barca CB would need-

The Franchise wrote:being decent with the ball, composed and so on it should be.

Having more height in our team is always a good thing. It's not something we necessarily NEED for our CB of choice, but it's certainly something that will be looked at, and it's always going to be helpful for us, due to our lack of height.

Well I was thinking that being composed, being decent on the ball, thats just a given. If your not that, we shouldnt even bother.

But that aside, height is one of the things we should probably look for because it seems like from set peices we at most have 3 balls winners, usually 2. Losing Abidal hurts in this way too because he was good in air.

The Franchise wrote:Well no, not the prime attribute but I would say next after being decent with the ball, composed and so on it should be. RG has said many times Yanga, at this point any centerback who is anyone rates I am wplayinilling to consider...we are playing leftbacks at centerback in the hardest game of the year such is the state we are in lol

I get what you mean though, as in Puyols tanacity, energy, quickness (in his prime) needs replacing more than size (as we have Pique) but at the same time we kind of need both...really we need anybody at this point.

Not only that that, we are playing them in a formation which basically has 2 defenders only (who aren't even real CB's btw lol) with wingbacks who like to bomb forward, against one of top attacking teams in the world, and definitely the best counter attacking team in the world.

In my opinion though, I don't think we need the height that badly, I think we need an intelligent CB who is athletic and fast. If he can read the game well and play the offside trap, we won't be put in a position where our lack of height matters, because there won't be many balls going out wide, and through our defense. In the case that they do, our CB is fast and can possibly catch up, and we have Pique/Song to add height to the squad to get on the end of the crosses.

Ideally, I want the team to concede less chances, rather than figuring out ways to deal with threats. Why not try to cut off the source of the threats by getting a real CB? Getting a defender who is tall and good in the air is just a makeshift solution I think. I want to tackle the problem at its root. But we need someone fairly young and ambitious who wants a future at Barcelona, because more often than not, players need time to adapt to the team.

Well I agree, we need someone with some mobility too. Ideally, we want a defender who is both of those things...strong in the air an mobile. As you said fairly young and ambitous.

Funny enough, Dede is all of those things.

The guy has only played in Brasileirão. I mean, is he actually even good in Brasil? Why is he not even invited to the national team when David Luiz plays match in match out?

I watched a couple of Vasco Games after I knew about Dede. Although I think he is a very good CB, we won' sign him. Vasco rarely plays the ball from the back, so he is not a proven ball player.

As Free said, I can't see Dede coming. Even though he has the qualities of a good centreback he has got
1. The Experience of playing against the top teams
2. The ability to play the ball from the back or even feel composed on the ball...
The second point will be a key reason why we probably won't sign him (add also Sakho as he DOES NOT look at all good on the ball and cannot play a safe pass for all my days...). Plus, we never do well bringing up blokes from Brazilian clubs (Henrique, Kerrison are recent examples) so I don't think Dede will be an option.
Is that right? Maybe not.

More & more, I like Nicolas N'Koulou

danyjr wrote:The guy has only played in Brasileirão. I mean, is he actually even good in Brasil? Why is he not even invited to the national team when David Luiz plays match in match out?

With this sort of thinking, Milan would have never bought Thiago Silva.

Dede is in the NT btw.

Hasn't Dede been voted best player in Brazil? And best defender two years in a row?

That should answer if he "is actually good".

Well, the thing is, defending in Brasil is not really the same as defending in Europe or the rest of South America...Plus, the knock on Dedé is that Vasco doesn't really play the ball out of the back and no one is quite convinced with his skills on the ball...He comes with some question marks, I guess, but he's a smart defender, IMHO

The Franchise wrote:With this sort of thinking, Milan would have never bought Thiago Silva.

Dede is in the NT btw.

I don't know if he's good or not so I leave it to people who actually have watched him play. But with that sort of thinking you'd always buy a lottery ticket thinking you'll win the millions. The truth is you'll always hear about success stories, which are in fact rare, while the stories of those hundreds of players who turn out to be flops fade away.

Signing him, even if he is actually good, is quite a risk considering he's surely going to cost more than peanuts, isn't young and hasn't played in Europe. It is a matter of calculating the possibilities and see whether it is worth taking the risk.

But seriously, if you're second to David Luiz then I'm not sure (actually not even second, probably 3rd or 4th...or 5th).

danyjr wrote:

The Franchise wrote:With this sort of thinking, Milan would have never bought Thiago Silva.

Dede is in the NT btw.

I don't know if he's good or not so I leave it to people who actually have watched him play. But with that sort of thinking you'd always buy a lottery ticket thinking you'll win the millions. The truth is you'll always hear about success stories, which are in fact rare, while the stories of those hundreds of players who turn out to be flops fade away.

Signing him, even if he is actually good, is quite a risk considering he's surely going to cost more than peanuts, isn't young and hasn't played in Europe. It is a matter of calculating the possibilities and see whether it is worth taking the risk.

But seriously, if you're second to David Luiz then I'm not sure (actually not even second, probably 3rd or 4th...or 5th).

Dede is young, rated around 10-20 million and can easily be a great in Europe when he 'gets into rhythm'.

danyjr wrote:

The Franchise wrote:With this sort of thinking, Milan would have never bought Thiago Silva.

Dede is in the NT btw.

I don't know if he's good or not so I leave it to people who actually have watched him play. But with that sort of thinking you'd always buy a lottery ticket thinking you'll win the millions. The truth is you'll always hear about success stories, which are in fact rare, while the stories of those hundreds of players who turn out to be flops fade away.

Signing him, even if he is actually good, is quite a risk considering he's surely going to cost more than peanuts, isn't young and hasn't played in Europe. It is a matter of calculating the possibilities and see whether it is worth taking the risk.

But seriously, if you're second to David Luiz then I'm not sure (actually not even second, probably 3rd or 4th...or 5th).

Theres this thing...its called, no risk no reward. You may of heard of it?

I dont see how he is not worth the risk...we are playing leftbacks if you havent noticed.

You keep saying is he "if" good in Brazil...I know you saw he Kizz's post.

And who cares if he is behind David Luiz for Brazil..what kind of logic is this?

Do you honestly believe that all 11 players for every NT in the world are the best in their position?

With a buyout clause of less than 15M he's definitely worth the risk. As Dani says, it's a risk reward scenario. The higher the risk, the lower the price you should pay for the player. 15M is cheap in today's market for a potentially very good player.

If its 15m, he just renewed, I can't imagine that figure is still accurate

But sure, for 15m, that puts him right there with Nkoulou