Barca Plan B - Less possession

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by Donuts on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:06 pm

everything is fine, we just need a more stable defense.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by free_cat on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:23 am

@danyjr wrote:Because contrary to popular belief, Piqué is not an aerial threat. Defensively he is good in air but directing your header is a whole other story, which he sucks at by the way (in fact everybody bar Messi, Thiago and Puyol do in Barcelona, while the former two are not tall enough to be an aerial threat).

Pique a bad header? rofl
He is not one of the best in the world, but definitely not a bad header. Scores every seasons from set pieces and corners.

@eelir wrote:
I agre with you totally. Some say Pique is enough, but i can't seam to recall when was the last time Pique scored a decisive goal and save us?

It's not like he has options to do so every season. He's been used as an emergency striker 3-4 times, and he delivered at least vs. Estudiantes in CWC and vs. Inter, probably some other.

A name that comes to my mind though is Peter Crouch or Nikola Zigic. Both are great in the air thanks to their 2 metres but are not world class strikers so wouldn't demand starting spot.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by Donuts on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:11 am

Pique is a bad header for someone with his height and build he should be winning them more oftenly, Puyol shits on Pique's aerial abilities.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by The Franchise on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:27 am

Not really. You just expect more because of Piques height. If you throw in a high ball where neither Puyol nor Pique have to move very much, Pique is going to win it.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by Zealous on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:36 pm

Less possession is not a plan B lol

For what it's worth I don't think Barca really need to change too much in their style but I would change two things.

1) Better defenders like what has been said already

2) A more concious attempt at stretching the pitch, sure Barca always have players in wide positions but personally I don't think they overload the flanks nearly enough, overlapping runs would help a lot in achieving this. If I could use Madrid as an example (lol) Ronaldo is so much more dangerous when Marcelo overlaps in support. Barca can easily do this but they don't which I find odd. Maybe it's because they'd rather have more players in the centre? Would a player with a stronger physical presence establish that meaning more players can support the wide players? I think so.

Whenever Iniesta and Alba combine in wide positions things start happening for you guys but it doesn't happen nearly enough imo.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by The Franchise on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:16 pm

Sad day when a Madrid fan believes in our style more than some of our fans.

But in all seriousness good post, I agree. I dont like Alba much at all, but if there is one thing I do like is that he overlaps all the time when possible. It creates the dual danger for the fullback.

For some reason Dani Alves doesnt overlap like he did in say 09. I think though much of it is because Messi naturally gravitates to that side and defences are always more focused on that side of the pitch. Xavi to Dani Alves used to be a key weapon for us, he used to run in behind and Xavi used to hit him over the top. It was like a 1 in 2 game sort of thing how much we went to it, now hardly ever. I also think Dani Alves doesnt want to run in behind as much, because he is so comfortable on the ball and gets so many touches.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by danyjr on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:10 pm

@free_cat wrote:Pique a bad header? rofl

Never said he was a bad header. Read the post again. In short, he is tall and has a good jump, hence able to win aerial battles but his heading technique is poor, which means he is not good at directing the ball (seriously how many goals has he scored from headers in the past 3 seasons?)

Centre backs who are also aerial threats: Puyol, Ramos, Terry, Vermaelen, Van Buyten, Vidić, Lescott and Koscielny.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:16 pm

In the entire 2011/12 season Pique scored once from a header out of 13 headed shots (source). Not that Puyol's 2 headed goals from 14 headed shots is significantly better, but we do at least some times score from a corner with Puyol on the field.

Song has a hell of a jump. Can he head?


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by The Sanchez on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:25 pm

Dani Alves puts it right tbh. "We don't need a Plan B , we just need to make Plan A work better."
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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by danyjr on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:23 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Song has a hell of a jump. Can he head?
He's like Piqué in the sense that he has a good jump but poor heading technique. I would be more worried about his determination to get his head on a high ball, as Arsenal fans will tell you story after story regarding that.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by harhar11 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:06 am

@danyjr wrote:You don't need a plan B but you need to stop being so predictable. And get some aerial presence, defensively at least.

But the thing is, its not as easy as that. I mean 99.9% of every teams plays with 10 defenders making it hard for barca to be unpredictable. Even Real Madrid, who most would say are the most direct team in the world, looks fairly predictable when teams uses that tactic against team.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by alexjanosik on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:04 am

@The Franchise wrote:Sad day when a Madrid fan believes in our style more than some of our fans.

But in all seriousness good post, I agree. I dont like Alba much at all, but if there is one thing I do like is that he overlaps all the time when possible. It creates the dual danger for the fullback.

For some reason Dani Alves doesnt overlap like he did in say 09. I think though much of it is because Messi naturally gravitates to that side and defences are always more focused on that side of the pitch. Xavi to Dani Alves used to be a key weapon for us, he used to run in behind and Xavi used to hit him over the top. It was like a 1 in 2 game sort of thing how much we went to it, now hardly ever. I also think Dani Alves doesnt want to run in behind as much, because he is so comfortable on the ball and gets so many touches.


The diagonal ball from Xavi to Alves either over the defense or behind the defense used to be such a lethal play for us.Over the last 2 years we rarely use it.
I think the main reason for it is that teams have realized the danger and have now started to look out for that play and defend it well.Whenever Xavi tries to play in Alves,the opposition fullback is on the lookout for that run and very often intercepts the ball.
Another reason is that for the fullback to overlap and get in behind,the right forward has to cut in.This has not been happening the past 2 seasons.
In Alves first season,Messi played on the right.Messi used to cut in a lot dragging the fulback with him.Alves could easily overlap and Xavi could find him.In his second season Messi played even more centrally and again Alves had the freedom to overlap.
Last season,due to injuries,Cuenca played on the right a lot.He is a natural winger and likes to hug the touchline.So Alves couldnt overlap and get in behind as much.Alexis played there a few times and again he didnt cut in thereby creating space for Alves to overlap.
This season Pedro has played thr.And as free has mentioned,Pedro has played almost like a winger,trying to beat the fullback and put in crosses.Pedro has not really cut in creating space for Alves to overlap.
Another factor is that teams are playing a lot more deeper against us.So this makes it even harder for Alves to get in behind.
However due to other teams focussing on that particular play and Alves,it has opened up space for Alba,who routinely overlaps.
I think for Alves to overlap more,Pedro needs to be told to cut in more.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by danyjr on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:08 am

Barcelona need to watch their matches and do some tactical training. It is no more easy to unlock defences by the freestyle tiki-taka relying largely on the brilliance of their players. For me it has been clear for about a year that a more tactical approach is needed if they want to stay on top. It is not easy playing against Barcelona, even with 10 or 11 men behind the ball if they have the right means to hurt them and move away from the predictable.

As an example, Barcelona cutting in on a constant basis from the wings has made it a lot easier to defend against. Plan B or whatever you call it, I call it unpredictability. For example, I don't think crossing the ball is a bad idea, because even if you don't score directly from it, it is going to stretch and disorganise defences while giving opportunity on the second balls. A couple of crosses were sent during that Celtic match and they both lead to very dangerous events. Bear in mind, I'm not suggesting more crosses, I'm saying do something different each time.

Another example is Messi running to his lethal left foot to have a shot. People watch him every day and they know his left foot is :bow: so it is no surprise that every match you see two defenders closing on his left foot alone.

A good coach however, uses these to his team's benefit. Football is a game that you cannot have it all. You gain some, you lose some. If Messi has 3 people engaged on him, that should leave space for other players. A few tactics worked in the training ground will leave defenders and coaches thinking twice before they make a decision. Right now, they all know what to do even before the match starts.

In short, Barcelona need to be more unpredictable and less reliant on Messi.

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Re: Barca Plan B - Less possession

Post by harhar11 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:30 pm

@danyjr wrote:Barcelona need to watch their matches and do some tactical training. It is no more easy to unlock defences by the freestyle tiki-taka relying largely on the brilliance of their players. For me it has been clear for about a year that a more tactical approach is needed if they want to stay on top. It is not easy playing against Barcelona, even with 10 or 11 men behind the ball if they have the right means to hurt them and move away from the predictable.

As an example, Barcelona cutting in on a constant basis from the wings has made it a lot easier to defend against. Plan B or whatever you call it, I call it unpredictability. For example, I don't think crossing the ball is a bad idea, because even if you don't score directly from it, it is going to stretch and disorganise defences while giving opportunity on the second balls. A couple of crosses were sent during that Celtic match and they both lead to very dangerous events. Bear in mind, I'm not suggesting more crosses, I'm saying do something different each time.

Another example is Messi running to his lethal left foot to have a shot. People watch him every day and they know his left foot is :bow: so it is no surprise that every match you see two defenders closing on his left foot alone.

A good coach however, uses these to his team's benefit. Football is a game that you cannot have it all. You gain some, you lose some. If Messi has 3 people engaged on him, that should leave space for other players. A few tactics worked in the training ground will leave defenders and coaches thinking twice before they make a decision. Right now, they all know what to do even before the match starts.

In short, Barcelona need to be more unpredictable and less reliant on Messi.

Once again, its not as easy as that to become more unpredictable once a team put 10 players inside their own penalty area...

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