Re: Kaka now the highest scoring Brasilian in Euro Cup/Champions League history

by Dante Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:33 am

The Franchise wrote:
Dante wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Okay, but he wasnt a top 10 Brazilian.

And Berlusconi didnt screw him over, unless he somehow intentionally injured him?

In a sense , he kinda did . Had Berlusconi never bothered to sell him , Kaka would still be a highly important player , despite his injuries. In Milan , he would just be a key player as ever . In fact , he would be the captain today .

And the truth is , Berlusconi tried , and succeeded as well , to sell him twice in one season . The bs about him cancelling M.City's offer in the last minute is really funny to believe. Kaka didn't agree to leave , but when Real asked for him , Berlusconi again wanted to sell him ; the club was in big debt and he didn't want to pay from his pocket again .

Ok , we cannot know what would have happened had he never left , but i am quite sure Kaka wouldn't be playing like this today .

Thats unfair, totally unfair. In his last season at Milan you should remember how many games he missed. Only a fool wouldnt sell a injury prone and declining player for 50m.

In the games he played, he wasnt his old self either, we could all see that.

Milan did the right move in terms of football and finance. It was a shame because Kaka was a legend and loyal at that, but you cant fault Milan for selling him at the time they did for what was on offer.

Kaka isnt what he was because of injury and injury alone, thats noones fault.

He had many goals and assists in his last season ,most of them in important games, it's not that unfair.

Having said that , i cannot argue about him missing some periods of the season , yes , and on top of that , he wasn't exactly the extremely pacy player which we were used to . Still nowhere near to declining point. If it was so obvious , Real wouldn't bother signing him for all that money in the first place , me thinks.

I do concede that Milan did the right choice with regards to financial reasons , and that's about it. I do remember some games in kaka's last season , which he wasn't playing and we were very bad and ineffective without him . Won't even talk about the next season , ridicule comes to mind.

With regards to his injuries , it could have meant the exact same had he stayed at Milan , i don't want to argue about that. The difference being, Milan would still play him afterwards and Kaka would be giving a lot more back , compared to now.

I will reiterate again , why Berlusconi sold him , for one last time. Debt was huge and he didn't want to spend from his pocket once again. Had he paid at least some of it , Kaka wouldn't leave Milan , that's the truth. I just think had he stayed at Milan , his career would have been better today , but that's just me.

I won't deny though , that Berlusconi had to look over the club first . That doesn't bereft him of his only job , to actualy pay for the club , but that's what he did and i am not arguing about this being the sole or main reason behind Kaka's demise ..

He had a part to play though. Especialy when i remember how much he paid all these years for Ronaldinho , which made Kaka's sale a possibility.. You are right though , it's his injuries in the end , not arguing about that.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:40 am

pUsHa wrote:oh he's totally sh1t .... I mean how many Brazilian players won the best player in the world lol ... Carried their team to a CL !? Or won everything there is on the international level ?

Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, Ronaldinho, Cafu and Carlos are all better and that's just from the 90s to present day.

He was a great player but one of best Brazilian's ever? pls lol.

by The Franchise Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:40 am

pUsHa wrote:oh he's totally sh1t .... I mean how many Brazilian players won the best player in the world lol ... Carried their team to a CL !? Or won everything there is on the international level ?

Please stop.

I guess he is better than Pele then, he never won the CL.

Oh, and WAAAAAAAY better than Zico..he didnt win the CL nor win the WC

by The Franchise Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:42 am

Dante wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Dante wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Okay, but he wasnt a top 10 Brazilian.

And Berlusconi didnt screw him over, unless he somehow intentionally injured him?

In a sense , he kinda did . Had Berlusconi never bothered to sell him , Kaka would still be a highly important player , despite his injuries. In Milan , he would just be a key player as ever . In fact , he would be the captain today .

And the truth is , Berlusconi tried , and succeeded as well , to sell him twice in one season . The bs about him cancelling M.City's offer in the last minute is really funny to believe. Kaka didn't agree to leave , but when Real asked for him , Berlusconi again wanted to sell him ; the club was in big debt and he didn't want to pay from his pocket again .

Ok , we cannot know what would have happened had he never left , but i am quite sure Kaka wouldn't be playing like this today .

Thats unfair, totally unfair. In his last season at Milan you should remember how many games he missed. Only a fool wouldnt sell a injury prone and declining player for 50m.

In the games he played, he wasnt his old self either, we could all see that.

Milan did the right move in terms of football and finance. It was a shame because Kaka was a legend and loyal at that, but you cant fault Milan for selling him at the time they did for what was on offer.

Kaka isnt what he was because of injury and injury alone, thats noones fault.

He had many goals and assists in his last season ,most of them in important games, it's not that unfair.

Having said that , i cannot argue about him missing some periods of the season , yes , and on top of that , he wasn't exactly the extremely pacy player which we were used to . Still nowhere near to declining point. If it was so obvious , Real wouldn't bother signing him for all that money in the first place , me thinks.

I do concede that Milan did the right choice with regards to financial reasons , and that's about it. I do remember some games in kaka's last season , which he wasn't playing and we were very bad and ineffective without him . Won't even talk about the next season , ridicule comes to mind.

With regards to his injuries , it could have meant the exact same had he stayed at Milan , i don't want to argue about that. The difference being, Milan would still play him afterwards and Kaka would be giving a lot more back , compared to now.

I will reiterate again , why Berlusconi sold him , for one last time. Debt was huge and he didn't want to spend from his pocket once again. Had he paid at least some of it , Kaka wouldn't leave Milan , that's the truth. I just think had he stayed at Milan , his career would have been better today , but that's just me.

I won't deny though , that Berlusconi had to look over the club first . That doesn't bereft him of his only job , to actualy pay for the club , but that's what he did and i am not arguing about this being the sole or main reason behind Kaka's demise ..

He had a part to play though. Especialy when i remember how much he paid all these years for Ronaldinho , which made Kaka's sale a possibility.. You are right though , it's his injuries in the end , not arguing about that.

No, Madrid are just stupid and desperate. They signed his name, Kaka, but if they bothered looking at his game they would of seen massive decline.

In the end I dont disagree with everything your saying but I dont understand what Berculsconi did wrong at all. He made a good move for the better of the club.

by windkick Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:47 am

Who held the record before him?

by The Franchise Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:48 am

Crimson wrote:Passed Rivaldo by scoring today, how very odd......

by FalcaoPunch Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:56 am

Are we assuming he would have continued to play at a top form if he never came to madrid?

Bullshit.

The injuries hurt his stay here. And would have done the same if he stayed at milan.

by windkick Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:00 am

I agree, he was done being a monster but the quality is still there. He just never gets to play anymore with Madrid. Should he go to another club that plays him on a every game basis I think he would still have some great performances left in him but his days of zooming past defenders like he would at Milan are over. Which is a shame

by Dante Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:27 am

The Franchise wrote:
No, Madrid are just stupid and desperate. They signed his name, Kaka, but if they bothered looking at his game they would of seen massive decline.

In the end I dont disagree with everything your saying but I dont understand what Berculsconi did wrong at all. He made a good move for the better of the club.

This is what i don't understand . I think we just have to agree to disagree in the end. He wasn't the Kaka of 06-07 by any means , but that wasn't solely down to losing pace and massive declining , whatsoever, not even close. Though i kinda agree with the Madrid part Laughing

.

Ancelotti was using him as a 2nd striker for almost the entire first-half of the season , due to technical reasons and in absence of consistent performances from the rest forwards. Ronaldinho and Borrielo were awful , whilst Inzaghi was often injured and unavailable due to fitness.Pato begun well at ss , then the afforementioned happened.

Kaka still did well and produced , but he wasn't able to do the same game as before.
In the 2nd half of the season , when Inzaghi returned and Pato moved alongside him as SS, Kaka dropped behind them and he was playing like he used to .

You either take my word for it or research if you like , but Kaka was still legit even in his last game for Milan. He also had a very good Confederations Cup as well . The only declining point would be losing some pace , but it was nothing that significant , since he was very fast still and able to get past the majority of his opponents.

Playing higher up the field made him much less available to do the massive runs towards the box from the middle , like he used to do , and he also was in need of other players to support him , but that was just a change of scenery , not decline . Kaka actualy improved his finishing and shoots that season and he also scored(and used to try often) some headers here and there . If you ask me , besides the injuries and that bit of pace lost , he became a better player even.

_

Again , it's his injuries later on and lack of playing time that made it harder to recover , that made his decline reality , very few to do with his days at Milan. I leave the Berlusconi part out , even if i get the point you made is valid , i explained why he played his part , though not so significant.

by The Franchise Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:43 am

Okay, let us meet in the middle and say not near best (but better than this current version) and not worth 50m.

Would that be fair?

by Gil Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:45 am

white_star wrote:
Gil wrote:How's it odd? He's one of the greatest Brazilians to ever play the game lol.

Trolling aside what is the number?

Kaka should have stayed in Milan!! He was a legend their, at his peak he was an amazing player. Came to Madrid and something happened now he is labeled useless.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Gil wrote:How's it odd? He's one of the greatest Brazilians to ever play the game lol.

Pls go and watch football before 2006.

Bunch of jesters on this forum. Kaka is one of the greatest Brazilians to ever do it.

Fact.

Did I say he was as great as Pele or Prime R9? No. But he'd easily make the Top 20.

by Dante Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:49 am

The Franchise wrote:Okay, let us meet in the middle and say not near best (but better than this current version) and not worth 50m.

Would that be fair?

That would be exactly it .

by Gil Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:50 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
pUsHa wrote:oh he's totally sh1t .... I mean how many Brazilian players won the best player in the world lol ... Carried their team to a CL !? Or won everything there is on the international level ?

Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, Ronaldinho, Cafu and Carlos are all better and that's just from the 90s to present day.

He was a great player but one of best Brazilian's ever? pls lol.

Carlos and Cafu LOLOLOLOL.

Please stop. Just stop.

Agree on the rest apart from Rivaldo who I think was romanticized by Barca fanbois.

by Lord Hades Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:54 am

whats wrong with carlos being better than kaka again?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:57 am

Rivaldo carried Ronaldo in 02 after his long term injury.... Kaka has never been at the level he was when he won the Balon D'or or when he won the 02 WC and arguably the best player of the tournament.

If anything he was underrated.

Carlos an Cafu are probably the best wing backs in the history of football so again yes they are better.

He might be in top 20 Brazilians but even that is highly debatable, i'm not sure you realise how many fantastic Brazilians there have been Laughing

by Adit Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:23 am

Hugely pace depending player with incredible shooting technique but creative side was rather average.

by The Franchise Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:39 am

OMG Gil....you get worse by the day.

Kaka better than Rivaldo....I cannot come up with words to describe how silly that is.

Cafu and Carlos? Give me 10 years of those two over 3 Kaka years anyday.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:55 am

Cafu and Roberto Carlos are better than Kaka.... if you don't believe that, then you just don't follow footy history. Especially Cafu.

Rivaldo was a beast as well. He was Kaka with more skills. Great player.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:05 am

And Mole... Kaka is in the top 20, somewhere between 15 and 20. Here's my list in no particular order (hope i didn't miss anyone lol):

1- Pele
2- Garincha
3- Nilson Santos
4- Carlos Alberto
5- Rivelino
6- Jairzinho
7- Socrates
8- Zico
9- Junior
10- Falcao
11- Romario
12- Cafu
13- Roberto Carlos
14- R9
15- Bebeto
16- Didi
17- Ademir
18- Rivaldo
19- Ronaldinho
20- Kaka

by Gil Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:13 am

Ashley Cole is better than Kaka then according to you guys logic.

Roberto Carlos couldn't defend and while Cafu was great any sensible person would take prime Kaka over him. I admire his longetivity and consistency but his impact and significance on a game wasn't as high as Kaka's was on those Dunga/Ancelotti teams.

I do understand why people would prefer him though. Carlos on the other hand is ridiculous, guy was a fraudulent footballer. Total liability on defense. In b4. Fake fullback winger BS.

As for Rivaldo, I have no idea why people consider it egregious to compare the two. He was a beast in his prime & one of the greatest to ever do it BUT people knowingly forget his career and legacy pretty much mirrors Kaka.

Take out the childhood memories and there isn't that much of a difference between the two in my opinion. Not saying Kaka was outright better or anything but Rivaldo wasn't exactly a Ronaldinho, Zidane, Messi, R9, Xavi type player either.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:17 am

sportsczy wrote:And Mole... Kaka is in the top 20, somewhere between 15 and 20. Here's my list in no particular order (hope i didn't miss anyone lol):

1- Pele
2- Garincha
3- Nilson Santos
4- Carlos Alberto
5- Rivelino
6- Jairzinho
7- Socrates
8- Zico
9- Junior
10- Falcao
11- Romario
12- Cafu
13- Roberto Carlos
14- R9
15- Bebeto
16- Didi
17- Ademir
18- Rivaldo
19- Ronaldinho
20- Kaka

Yh i was thinking about it and i think he does sneak in there.

But top 20 is a big number..... one of best ever would usually imply that Kaka would get into a all time Brazilian eleven and he wouldn't even get on the sub bench.

by RealGunner Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:27 am

First Fabregas then Iniesta, now kaka. Every great player getting hated on in this forum

Sad day

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:28 am

RealGunner wrote:First Fabregas then Iniesta, now kaka. Every great player getting hated on in this forum

Sad day

Disagreement =/= Hatred Razz

by Gil Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:30 am

Top 20 is a big number? rofl

Brazil produce about 5 next big things every year ffs.

EDIT: Btw how the hell am I getting lambasted for respecting Kaka while Moal gets away with his R9 bashing? Laughing

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:32 am

Gil wrote:Top 20 is a big number?

Brazil produce about 5 next big things every year ffs.

Neymar is the first big thing since Dinho ffs an he's proven nothing at the top level yet.

So no lol.

by halamadrid2 Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:36 am

Robinho was supposed to be the next big thing, but it didn't turn out very well

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