Varane

Except Adan, he honestly sucks. Poor well paid guy...

The Franchise wrote:You consider everyone you have good.

Do you really think that?

I sure as hell don't (Arbeloa, Albiol, Essien).

As for the Varane hype, i'm not getting into this at all. Same thing happened to Benz last year, the guys riding his nuts have gone very quiet and blame EVERYONE ELSE except Benz.

Hopefully the same doesn't happen to Varane, but the overrate machine is already in full effect.

No, not everyone. For sure no.

The Franchise wrote:You consider everyone you have good.

So that makes Ramos bad now?

My bias should have nothing to do with how good or bad a player is. Ramos is a great CB, he has his weaknesses just like any other player but more often than not he does a great job.

Now if you want to say "Zealous I can't take your assessment of a player seriously" well that's on me but it doesn't change anything. Varane has been fantastic so far (and hopefully for many seasons to come) and Ramos is a great CB for both Spain and Real Madrid.

I didnt say bad.

But he certainly is not great. Unless the standard of greatness has been brought down a couple levels.

My original point was everyone according to you (though your not alone) is a little bit better than they really are.

Its not just Ramos either im picking on for a change.

So you're going to be pedantic about which adjectives I use to describe Ramos? Fine send me a list of adjectives I can use to describe him favourably and I'll stick to it

He's not as good as I think he is? Maybe, perhaps even likely but he's produced objectively good performances on a number of occasions for Spain and Madrid. He's had howlers (boy he's had some howlers) but that doesn't erase the great things he's achieved so far.

As for the rest of the team I assure you, I'm fully aware of the players that I overrate, sometimes I do it for fun, sometimes I do it because I like the player and want him to succeed. I'm fully aware of my bias but I'd like to think I have more accurate assessments of players overall than bad ones

As for the "hype" problem amongst the fan base it's definitely there and it has been for as long as I can remember and I doubt it will ever go away but I don't see the issue. It's obvious who is completely ridiculous in their overrating and who isn't so it shouldn't bother anyone and it's not like it's going to affect the players directly anyway

There's a difference with being in WC form and being bonafide WC. For me, a player needs to be at a WC level consistently (always have a bad game here and there) for 2 years before i can say that he's WC. Just my way...

Varane has been performing at a WC level for over a month now. I don't think anyone can deny that.

And please... stop with Barzagli and Chiellini lovefest. They have fantastic strengths, but obvious flaws. It's like saying Pepe and Ramos are WC, which they are not. They are simply very good CBs. There are only 3 CBs that have the talent to do it all and do it well: Silva, Pique and Vidic. Pique is off form and Vidic is still getting back to playing from a series of injuries. Silva is alone right now.

As far as Varane... he has the talent do it all and has been doing it. But let's see if he can keep it up once other teams have a good scouting report on him. Next year will be the key.

Going to Madrid... it was a very, very risky decision for him and one with low odds of success. He beat those odds and is reaping the benefits However, he has benefited from Pepe-Ramos suspensions and injuries. Of those hadn't happened, he would be on the bench and looking for a transfer this summer. High risk, high reward decision for him.

Collblanc wrote:Great defender, gets too much credit for his performances against players like Messi, Drogba. They all get double marked, or even triple marked. That Varane is the player that kicks the ball away doesnt mean he ´beats´ Messi, that just means he has good teamwork and good positioning. He will never beat Messi in a 1v1 frontal situation, no defender does. So please, give the guy credit where it deserves.

i LOL'd hard

impressive player for his age but we'll see how he does when Mou packs his bags

Real Kandahar wrote:

Collblanc wrote:Great defender, gets too much credit for his performances against players like Messi, Drogba. They all get double marked, or even triple marked. That Varane is the player that kicks the ball away doesnt mean he ´beats´ Messi, that just means he has good teamwork and good positioning. He will never beat Messi in a 1v1 frontal situation, no defender does. So please, give the guy credit where it deserves.

i LOL'd hard

Thats great. Give me 1 example where Varane beats Messi in a frontal 1v1.

I highly rate this kid, and hope he becomes a great. His composure for his age is amazing.

Plus he seems the humble type and not the asshole personality that his fellow Madrid defenders seem to have.

At least let's hope he does not develop that with age and fame.

Collblanc wrote:

Real Kandahar wrote:

Collblanc wrote:Great defender, gets too much credit for his performances against players like Messi, Drogba. They all get double marked, or even triple marked. That Varane is the player that kicks the ball away doesnt mean he ´beats´ Messi, that just means he has good teamwork and good positioning. He will never beat Messi in a 1v1 frontal situation, no defender does. So please, give the guy credit where it deserves.

i LOL'd hard

Thats great. Give me 1 example where Varane beats Messi in a frontal 1v1.

Your argument is flawed. You'll almost never see a pure frontal 1v1 with Messi and a CB unless Messi is gone wide and the CB is covering for a fullback OR on a counter attack. Barca are not a counter team and Messi rarely ever goes wide.... and when he does, he usually sees a fullback. What you will often see is either Messi making a run behind a CB, getting free in front of a CB for a shot, doing linkup in the center or trying to beat multiple defenders in the middle with dribbling.

In the last 3 clasicos, Messi couldn't do a thing on the plays where Varane is involved. The only times he got something going was on the opposite side of Varane.

sportsczy wrote:In the last 3 clasicos, Messi couldn't do a thing on the plays where Varane is involved. The only times he got something going was on the opposite side of Varane.

So, is that because of Varane or because they team up on him? ;-)

There were situations where Messi was ahead of Varane or facing him in a certain way where Varane won. It doesn't just have to be 1v1 in front.

Anyone remember Messi getting shoulder off the ball by Varane

Its funny people actually believe this kid stops the best player ever. Keep it up GL.

Collblanc wrote:Its funny people actually believe this kid stops the best player ever. Keep it up GL.

It's funny how you are in denial. It must hurt that a 19 years old finally was able to stop the supposed best player of all time.

I think we have watched different games. I never saw Varane stopping Messi. I saw Varane stopping Messi getting help from his team, yes, but not just Varane. He gets too much credit for a team effort.

Se7en wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:

Se7en wrote:Madrid fans need to remember how they hyped up Ramos as a CB before they hype up Varane.

Only reason I'm against all this hyping is becouse Madrid fans set up alot of haters for Varane and it's also quite annoying. Just call him the best young CB in the world, that much is hard to argue with.

the difference is ramos was praised early on for his attacking abilities and ball control as a CB, never for his defending. varane is being praised for his maturity in defense. ramos never picked up the defending part of his game, varane still has lots of time to improve his game, and even if he doesnt improve much he is still a very capable defender, which ramos never was (though he was expected to improve due to his youngness)

You've no idea what you're talking about if you seriously think Ramos was praised for being a great CB only becouse of his ball control He was hyped up becouse people genuinly believed he was a good CB back then, not becouse of his attacking qualities lmao.

Ramos was hyped the f*ck up (including me, I also hyped him up), to be fair, he did perform well back then, but that just shows how you can't just call someone WC too early.

Just search Ramos and unleash the stupidness (and again, I used to hype him up aswell).

ramos was hyped for how young he made his debut to the national team and his attacking ability NOT defending. he was labeled the next hierro for his goal scoring ability NOT defending. please dont question my knowledge because you are quite wrong if you think ramos was ever a great defender in the purest terms of defending (making tackles, being in good positions, etc), that has never been his game.

i suggest you go back and watch.

Collblanc wrote:Its funny people actually believe this kid stops the best player ever. Keep it up GL.

It's funny you believe no one ever could/will stop the best player ever.

izzy wrote:

The Franchise wrote:You consider everyone you have good.

Do you really think that?

I sure as hell don't (Arbeloa, Albiol, Essien).

As for the Varane hype, i'm not getting into this at all. Same thing happened to Benz last year, the guys riding his nuts have gone very quiet and blame EVERYONE ELSE except Benz.

Hopefully the same doesn't happen to Varane, but the overrate machine is already in full effect.

cut the crap izzy in the case of benz you know damn well the rotation for 4 seasons straight can take its toll on any player, you can't be wc every time you step on the pitch, with half the minutes and a coach who just loves being indecisive, last season benz showed true WC potential when he got to play couple games straight and should have been auto starter this season as well.

I swear sometimes "we are madrid" crap gets to some fans heads and they just go off spouting crap cause we can replace any player we like doesn't mean we can just ignore players situation when we see fit, remember when ozil was getting benched? the up roar by many was just some fan boy crap, why no "we are madrid screw ozil, he can be replaced... etc", enough with the bias and singling out players who has done nothing wrong.

as for varane hype its been earned fairly imo, top 5 cb can be achieved next season if he keeps on this pace or close to it

Zealous wrote:So you're going to be pedantic about which adjectives I use to describe Ramos? Fine send me a list of adjectives I can use to describe him favourably and I'll stick to it

He's not as good as I think he is? Maybe, perhaps even likely but he's produced objectively good performances on a number of occasions for Spain and Madrid. He's had howlers (boy he's had some howlers) but that doesn't erase the great things he's achieved so far.

As for the rest of the team I assure you, I'm fully aware of the players that I overrate, sometimes I do it for fun, sometimes I do it because I like the player and want him to succeed. I'm fully aware of my bias but I'd like to think I have more accurate assessments of players overall than bad ones

As for the "hype" problem amongst the fan base it's definitely there and it has been for as long as I can remember and I doubt it will ever go away but I don't see the issue. It's obvious who is completely ridiculous in their overrating and who isn't so it shouldn't bother anyone and it's not like it's going to affect the players directly anyway

Nope, not pedantic at all. Just is pretty poor to throw around great like that...when I think great, I think Nesta, Maldini and co..not frecking Ramos.

Ramos is good, sometimes he is very good..sometimes he is incredibly flawed.

You can call him whatever you like, doesnt mean you wont get called out for it.

Noone is talking about erasing anything, but the casual nature you threw great out there is redicilous to me at least.

And yes your very correct, but just as correct as you are about it, your still going to get people laughing at that very notion and calling yall out for it.

If your cool with that then great. Thats all I did really, point out how (yet again) every player you have gets far too much play.

I dont care about ranking him but i honestly haven't seen a 19 year old kid performing at this level in the CB position for past several years.

More scrubby defending from him tonight, is the hype getting to his head?

Turkish crowd was a crazy one, maybe they got into his head.