Summer Transfer Window 2013 Pt.II

McAgger wrote:I think there's a general consensus that we overpaid for both of them; however, writing them off is still premature. They both have shown glimpses of promise sometime in their short careers and the next year is going to be huge for them.

I struggle to see Borini getting much game time if we do indeed get Costa ( ) however Allen could be an integral part of the team.

not writing them off but both have not show in there career to date that good enough to be a Liverpool player,

like i said look Henderson he was Sunderland best player for 2 years but what is more Impress is out are central midfield of Sahin,Allen, Gerrard ,Shelvey goal per min & assist per min Henderson was are best central midfield player,

but there more we won more games with Henderson,Lucas,Gerrard than other pick in central midfield, so if Allen going be are number one in central midfield i just see it happen

I dunno, BR's transfer record has been a success in my eyes. The January window was such a stunning success, and this summer's signings all seem like smart pickups (if not necessarily splashy ones), that I'm willing to right off last year as the fluke. Even that, his "worst" transfer window, only really had one failure (Sahin), while Assaidi wasn't his signing, and Allen and Borini I'm still waiting to decide on.

Either way, I trust in BR's philosophy and our excellent scouting system to identify productive players, and second guessing signings before the season has even started doesn't make much sense in my eyes.

Oh and also, Veg, think about how you would've rated Hendo last year at this same time as compared to now. Players need time to accurately assess their contribution, especially when there were other factors affecting their play (injuries, being played out of position).

got this from eplindex

Can last season’s ugly duckling becomes this season’s shining light? It is certainly the case with Jordan Henderson of Liverpool this season. The majority of the Anfield supporters labelled Henderson a £20m flop at the culmination of last season, ignoring the fact that he was played out of position by Kenny Dalglish.

This season he has been playing his preferred central midfield position alongside a combination of Steven Gerrard, Joe Allen and Lucas Leiva and has improved enough to be receiving plaudits from the Kop faithful and media.

It has, however not been easy for Jordan Henderson. He has only started thirteen games compared to thirty-one last season and though this would prove much more frustrating for him than last year, he has been on the bench rather than in an incredibly irrelevant position on the pitch.

You would expect a young player to lose confidence with so much time spent sitting down, enough to then remain on the bench for the rest of the season but this has not been the case for Jordan Henderson. Hendo has begun to emit that never-say-die attitude which has shone through this season as he has forced himself back into the starting eleven. The thirteen games he has started have seen Liverpool lose only two, whilst winning five and drawing six (three consecutively in the last month). Regardless of the results, although they are indeed the be-all and end-all in football, it is his performance on the pitch that has begun to impress even the most sceptical of fans.

The best possible way to analyse Hendersons performance would not be by looking at how many minutes he has been on or off the pitch or how many goals he has scored, but by seeing how many minutes of play he has between each goal that he has been involved with, both scoring and assisting. Recently we have seen a new statistic doing the rounds on Twitter called Goal Involvement.
A truly interesting statistic that compares how many goals players are involved in as percentage of the total their team has scored. For example Luis Suarez has scored 23 and assisted 5 goals this season; therefore he has been involved with 28 of the 67 goals scored by Liverpool. This gives Suarez a goal involvement percentage of 41.8% of all goals scored for the team this season. This is likely to be one of the highest percentages in the league.
With Henderson however, his scoring and assisting solely cannot be compared to a striker who has spent double the time that he has on the pitch, so in his case we will be looking at minutes per goal involvement (MGI) which will indicate how many minutes a player is on the pitch before he assists/scores a goal.

What this statistic gives you is a fair indication of positive team impact and player performance and also clears the argument of players playing a varying amount of minutes in a season. Using the minutes that the player is on the pitch ensures that it’s an individual performance statistic that can be used to compare against others.

So how does Jordan Henderson compare to other midfielders (from the Top 7 Premier League sides) with regards to MGI?

We can see Jordan Henderson has performed incredibly well this season giving how little starts he has had. Being involved in a goal every 142 minutes has meant he has even out shone club captain Steven Gerrard, and Red Devils favourite Giggs although Liverpool new-boy Phillipe Coutinho has stolen a little of Hendo’s limelight by having the second best MGI in all of the top 7 teams.

One of the greater improvements that we have seen from Henderson this season has been his ability to make swift and efficient forward runs from deep positions. The image below, created using the EPLIndex Tactics Board, illustrates where Henderson started his run from to get onto Coutinho’s brilliant through ball and eventually scored.

What all of the tactics boards above have in common is that in each one Jordan Henderson has got involved in play after a making a run from a deeper position. This has been a key feature of his improvement this season and one we hope to see more often next season as he has achieved so much in 13 games (5 goals, 4 assists – tripling last seasons efforts in less than half the time on the pitch). Jordan Henderson has also bettered his season at Sunderland where he scored three goals and assisted four goals.

There is one key component of his game has been missed in the tactics boards above and that is his ability to press the opposition. Two of Liverpool’s goals against Newcastle originated from Jordan Henderson pressing the ball. For Sturridge’s first goal Henderson pressed Ben Arfa from a central position back to his own half where Coutinho dispossessed him and created the goal. Then for Sturridge’s second it was again Henderson that pressed a Newcastle midfielder to turnover possession which allowed Gerrard time and space to find Henderson’s run and create the goal.

In 2010/11 Jordan Henderson created 82 chances for Sunderland proving that he does posses a creative side to his game. He was one of the most creative players that season (as the screen shot from our Creativity Top Stats area shows -  members only) finishing in sixth place overall.

Well you are probably now asking what my point is here? If you look at the stats above 38% of the chances Jordan Henderson created were via Set-plays. Liverpool posses a player that is capable of creating via set-plays. Now don’t get me wrong, Steven Gerrard is brilliant and he creates plenty via set-plays (35% of his 92 chances created are via set-play) but I certainly think Jordan Henderson should be given more chances to put some of his excellent crosses into the box. Want to know how dangerous his crosses can be? His goal against Newcastle, that was supposed to be a cross, was too dangerous for anyone to get anywhere near it. It was Xabi-esque in this execution and I truly believe Henderson should be allowed to take his fair share of crossing set pieces next season.

Jordan Henderson has improved leaps and bounds in 2012/13. Though he hasonly started thirteen games, he has contributed an incredible amount in the 1281 minutes that he has spent on the pitch. Hopefully the supporters that have branded him a flop may re-think their opinions after the performances this season and recognise that Liverpool possess a young, determined and talented midfielder that has a lot more to offer in the years to come. Many of you will say it’s a small sample set of games and that he still has a lot to prove, however rather than get on a players back why should fans not support someone who has had a significant impact in albeit a handful of starts? That way he is given the best possible chance to succeed.

stevieg8 wrote:Oh and also, Veg, think about how you would've rated Hendo last year at this same time as compared to now.  Players need time to accurately assess their contribution, especially when there were other factors affecting their play (injuries, being played out of position).

right at the time Kenny Dalglish bought Henderson was think he going to be are new Graeme Souness the new Bryan Robson, yes  Henderson  had played on the right wing for Sunderland but his playing position was all ways as  box-to-box midfielder, did not get why Dalglish played him out position

nor did i get formation Dalglish was try to do but every time played for Dalglish in right position,  Rodgers carry on doing the same thing with Henderson but also pick a player in his head was better than Henderson,

as soon as  Henderson got time to play in best position he went on to show what a top player he is

stevieg8 wrote:I dunno, BR's transfer record has been a success in my eyes.  The January window was such a stunning success, and this summer's signings all seem like smart pickups (if not necessarily splashy ones), that I'm willing to right off last year as the fluke.  Even that, his "worst" transfer window, only really had one failure (Sahin), while Assaidi wasn't his signing, and Allen and Borini I'm still waiting to decide on.

Either way, I trust in BR's philosophy and our excellent scouting system to identify productive players, and second guessing signings before the season has even started doesn't make much sense in my eyes.

9 transfers & 1 loan

XI players Sturridge,Coutinho,Mignolet

Squad players Touré,Aspas,Alberto

not are best buys Assaidi,Allen,Borini both Allen,Borini coast more than any of XI players & Squad players, pay 5m loan for Sahin what was all about that 34m on players who are not good enough, that it to much for a Liverpool F.C to waste

it look good, a small to mid team premier league buy over 3 transfer's window 3 XI players & 3 Squad players but a team look to get back into top 4 & rebuild that type of 1 transfer window let only 2 others

vegfootball wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:Oh and also, Veg, think about how you would've rated Hendo last year at this same time as compared to now.  Players need time to accurately assess their contribution, especially when there were other factors affecting their play (injuries, being played out of position).

right at the time Kenny Dalglish bought Henderson was think he going to be are new Graeme Souness the new Bryan Robson, yes  Henderson  had played on the right wing for Sunderland but his playing position was all ways as  box-to-box midfielder, did not get why Dalglish played him out position

nor did i get formation Dalglish was try to do but every time played for Dalglish in right position,  Rodgers carry on doing the same thing with Henderson but also pick a player in his head was better than Henderson,

as soon as  Henderson got time to play in best position he went on to show what a top player he is

...exactly? That's what I was saying. If you had judged Hendo after just his first year, he would've look like a much bigger waste of money than either Allen or Borini. And as for your other post about what a team challenging for the top 4, if you think we need to be signing 3 starting XI players every window to rebuild properly, than we just have a difference of philosophy. Personally, I think rebuilding should and must take longer than that, and a success rate of 60% or higher is quite impressive.

Nishank wrote:Diego Costa: "I do not know [about the #LFC interest], here I am happy. I have nothing else to say."

Ofcourse he'll say that, Everyone will. Well except Suarez.

All I got from that was Diego Costa will be playing for Liverpool this week. lol

It's better Suarez doesn't come out to be honest. The more he speaks, the more media pick up on the little things and start twisting his words.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:

something-red wrote:Ballack was key in Chelsea winning titles during his time there.

SAF didn't sign them because he already had a successful team. He didn't actually really scout outside of England that much, he just picked up the best English talents and the foreign players (Ronaldo, Cantona etc) would of been considered outliers.

Anyway, the best English teams never really bought a quality Italian or German player just as the likes of Spanish, German and Italian teams don't buy English players. They try to stick to a more domestic spine. It doesn't mean Italian or Germans ALWAYS flop in the league. It's just, the best Italian talents prefer to stay at the best Italian clubs. It's the same with the Germans, and to an extent with the Spanish if they're at Real or Barcelona.

Did not know van Nistelrooy, Evra, Nani, de Gea, Forlan, Vidic etc. were bought from the domestic leagues.

Foreign teams don't buy English players because they're not worth the money they are paid for. They prefer to go for cheaper talents.

English players are groomed in such a way that they are most probably only fit for the PL. Same might be the case with Italians and Germans, perhaps.

They overpaid for most of them, though. Forlan also "flopped" at United, let's be honest.

It's the same market every where mate.

Italian players are worth more in Italy, but are considered less for the English market because Italian clubs don't want their rivals to grow.
The Spanish players are worth more in Spain to teams in the La Liga, and that's why many of them end up in the PL because they're considered 'cheaper' and the clubs in Spain don't have the best resources.

All the best German talents are either at Dortmund or Bayern. They're not going to let their players for cheap, especially as both of their finances are healthy and don't need to sell. (Gotze was sold because of a release cause.) Dortmund could easily "sell out" on Lewand but choose not too because well, they don't need too.

The English market is different though. When they see a player, and have the money, they'll splash the cash on him if they want him. Rival clubs reluctantly let their players go if the price is right. (Just look at Arsenal feeding United and City... Everton giving over arguably the best English talent in the last 20 years to United... Ferdinand from Leeds, list can go on).
It's different in Spain, Germany and Italy. Not too say it doesn't happen (it does), but very rarely does it happen in other leagues. It's common in the PL, though.

The PL also has "richer" teams if you compare them to other leagues. I mean, in terms of the whole league, not in comparison to just Real Madrid and Barcelona for La Liga etc. But mid-table clubs, and bottom half teams included. So the PL teams can give high enough contracts to keep the players in the PL instead of letting them go because of a somewhat inflated market. The players from a mid-table team only push for a move if a European / bigger team comes calling. You don't see too many players leave a mid table club for money unless he's actually forced out of the club.

stevieg8 wrote:

vegfootball wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:Oh and also, Veg, think about how you would've rated Hendo last year at this same time as compared to now.  Players need time to accurately assess their contribution, especially when there were other factors affecting their play (injuries, being played out of position).

right at the time Kenny Dalglish bought Henderson was think he going to be are new Graeme Souness the new Bryan Robson, yes  Henderson  had played on the right wing for Sunderland but his playing position was all ways as  box-to-box midfielder, did not get why Dalglish played him out position

nor did i get formation Dalglish was try to do but every time played for Dalglish in right position,  Rodgers carry on doing the same thing with Henderson but also pick a player in his head was better than Henderson,

as soon as  Henderson got time to play in best position he went on to show what a top player he is

...exactly?  That's what I was saying.  If you had judged Hendo after just his first year, he would've look like a much bigger waste of money than either Allen or Borini.  And as for your other post about what a team challenging for the top 4, if you think we need to be signing 3 starting XI players every window to rebuild properly, than we just have a difference of philosophy.  Personally, I think rebuilding should and must take longer than that, and a success rate of 60% or higher is quite impressive.

the thing what try to say i was not judged Henderson under Dalglish as he miss use him like Rodgers has been, what i was judged Henderson was what he has done in his career before join us,

he was Sunderland best player from age of 19, 2010-2011 season was 6th in the Premier League as creativity top stats, United & Alex Ferguson what him, England had give him a cap at a young,

were look at Joe Allen career before join us, was not even close to that level, you look at Swansea in the Premier League, most Passes,Tackles , Interceptions was Britton, the most Chances Created,Assists,goals i Sigurdsson, there was not enough in Allen career before join us to say he going to a top player

stevieg8 wrote:

vegfootball wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:Oh and also, Veg, think about how you would've rated Hendo last year at this same time as compared to now.  Players need time to accurately assess their contribution, especially when there were other factors affecting their play (injuries, being played out of position).

right at the time Kenny Dalglish bought Henderson was think he going to be are new Graeme Souness the new Bryan Robson, yes  Henderson  had played on the right wing for Sunderland but his playing position was all ways as  box-to-box midfielder, did not get why Dalglish played him out position

nor did i get formation Dalglish was try to do but every time played for Dalglish in right position,  Rodgers carry on doing the same thing with Henderson but also pick a player in his head was better than Henderson,

as soon as  Henderson got time to play in best position he went on to show what a top player he is

...exactly?  That's what I was saying.  If you had judged Hendo after just his first year, he would've look like a much bigger waste of money than either Allen or Borini.  And as for your other post about what a team challenging for the top 4, if you think we need to be signing 3 starting XI players every window to rebuild properly, than we just have a difference of philosophy.  Personally, I think rebuilding should and must take longer than that, and a success rate of 60% or higher is quite impressive.

p.s right when Rodgers took over,  squad & XI players we had big gap in it, XI cb, cm,lw,rw, squad gk, lb,rb,dm, rw, fc

now if had been Rodgers been a top Manager & work out a big club he should bought in 1st transfer window he should have  bought 2 XI  player's & 3 squad, 2nd window 1 XI player  2 squad player give him 8 new players in one year & time to gel, then with 3nd window then we only need 2 new players,

but we going ino start of Season  with no XI   add & few gap in the squad cover

sorry if i come across angry, just feel total let down by Liverpool yet again, i still hope pull some good transfers, we only 3 top player away from been a top 4 team again like how this club has doing 20+ years, we close but who care let fall apart.

I'd give this window 5/10 so far.

+ Aspas for £8m
+ Mignolet for £9m
+ Suso on loan

? Toure on a free
? Alberto for £7m

- Selling Carroll
- Throwing Reina out like that
- Looking to make Diego Costa our big-money signing

Daily Mail reporting wrote: that Newcastle director of football Joe Kinnear is hopeful he can conclude a deal for around £5m - representing a sizable loss for a player signed for £20m from Aston Villa two summers ago.

some extra 1 or 2m would be great

Damn 6 million is too less. My mood just dipped.

what happen with us look at Jorginho & Matheus Biteco ? both link around 8m move

Random media stories.

Nishank wrote:Random media stories.

so was made up, that a sad news, as read about Jorginho & Matheus Biteco, they look like a good gamble,

squad back up Midfield Biteco,Jorginho,Alberto yes raw talent but if all 3 work out it save us so much money long team

But we payed so much for Hendo and Allen, Why not give them a chance, Its not like they have been as bad as Borini or Downing that we want them out in the next window.

Nishank wrote:But we payed so much for Hendo and Allen, Why not give them a chance, Its not like they have been as bad as Borini or Downing that we want them out in the next window.

i know we over played for Henderson but you look at his career before join us, you could tell he going a top Premier League player, what not help Henderson is have 2 Manager who not play him in best position & one who does rate him

had Alex Ferguson bought Henderson for United, we would all be cry why did we not buy one of best England midfielder, since been at Liverpool had 2 years take away from him in his progression & development, i don't know now if Henderson can now reach his full talent

also for Joe Allen in my opinion i think he close ceiling level of talent,

or put this way

Allen talent for a team for 8th place

Henderson talent for a team for top 4 team

Henderson

i know go on about Henderson but to me he got the tools to very good Premier League player, he got power/pace/work rate/good in the air/tackle/assists/chances created/goal score, if Rodgers give Downing a plac in XI why not Henderson

sorry for youtuble if they have been post before

16-YEAR-OLD JORDAN HENDERSON SHOWCASES HIS FANTASTIC SKILL



Sunderland Skill School



Jordan Henderson Sunderland

When did Skrtel to Zenit suddenly become the Top News!!! That if true came out of no were at all!!!  

Zenit are rich and Skrtel is a former player of theirs that their fans rate very highly. I'd rather we sell him to them than let him go on loan anywhere.

How much is Skrtel going for?

was it not last year that we turn City  down 15m for Martin Škrtel but more than will to let  Henderson go for 6m