Winter Window || Jan 2014

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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:25 pm

This window, BR has never said 'the guys in the office are working hard to get deals done or whatever' hmm

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Post by iftikhar Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:30 pm

Keeping the cards close. Real close. Like in the pack and the pack in the drawer. Well this window is very quiet. Apart from Matic, I don't think there's much rumors about other teams as well. I think Mata will make a move.
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Post by McAgger Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:40 pm

Actually Rodgers has been saying that the scouts are working hard everyday behind the closed doors so you never know. this has been one of the most boring windows of all time though. Even under Kenny in 2011-12 during January when we knew we weren't going to sign anyone, there were some good rumors thrown around all over the place.
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Post by M99 Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:57 pm

Agyemang-Badu wrote:"I have not heard anything from my agent - at the moment it is all speculation."

"We will have to see what happens in the next two weeks because it has always been my dream to play in England.

"We played against Liverpool in the Europa League last year so I know all about them. They are a really good team who have been performing well this season and I would be very happy to join them.

"I’m settled in Italy but the chance to play for such a big club is something I couldn’t pass up."
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Post by RedOranje Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:44 pm

The Badu rumours have already been played down by reporters from the Echo and Telegraph... he HAS been scouted by Liverpool once or twice this season, but only as a back-up of a back-up of a back-up option according to them. So it sounds like he's only being considered if all other options fall through, and given the way Rodgers has talked about this window, I think he'd opt to not spend at all rather than spend on someone so low on the list.
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:49 pm

Thanks for verifying that further, Red. I reached some confusion on our scouting and needed clarity on what our intentions were for Badu.

As for our winter market-calma my friends. It is relatively early within the window as FSG/Rodgers are known to choose a late dive into the transfer market as I'm confident we'll acquire at least one satisfactory target.

Until then, nothing concrete. Better to anticipate than react, for now.
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Post by RedOranje Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:11 pm


Spanish clubs tussle for Tiago Ilori loan signing
By Phil Kirkbride Comments
15 Jan 2014 07:31
Valencia and Granada thought to be after season-long deal for defender


Tiago Ilori is the subject of a race between two Spanish clubs who want to take him on loan for the rest of the season.

The Liverpool defender has not made a first-team appearance since joining in the summer from Sporting Lisbon and so will be allowed to spend the final four months of the campaign away from Anfield.

La Liga side Granada have opened talks with the Reds about taking the 20-year-old on loan but they face stiff competition from a Spanish rival.

It has been reported that Valencia are the other side in the hunt for the Portuguese centre-half who Liverpool signed for £7m in the summer.

Granada are seen as in the hot seat to land Ilori but the ECHO understands that they face fierce competition from their domestic rival.

The loan deal does in no way cast doubts over Ilori’s future at Liverpool.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tiago-ilori-loan-spanish-clubs-6508301

I would imagine that Granada will prove to be the more enticing offer as he'll be more likely to be a starter there than he would be at Valencia. Unless Valencia offer a significantly higher loan fee or Ilori himself decides he likes the idea of Valencia better that Granada will be his destination for the remainder of the season.
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Post by Red Alert Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:36 am

M'Vila looks like he's going to Napoli...
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Post by Art Morte Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:15 pm

Would you guys take Holtby for the right price or do you feel it would be pointless, that we need something better?

I would. A CM with attacking instinct and good work-rate. Still only 23 and I feel he's been used a bit wrong at Tottenham, expected to contribute more in attack than what's natural for him, thus leading to his out-of-favourness.

Since they only paid less than 2m for him he shouldn't cost much, although I'm sure Levy would play hardball with any top-4 contender, which is a major downside. But if he was available for, say, that magical £7m price that we so liked spending in the summer window, I'd welcome him as a satisfactory January signing.

Capoue is apparently available, too, for something like £11m, but I don't fancy him so much.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:57 pm

If Holtby were available for a few million I'd take him. At the very least he'd add some very good and very much needed depth to our midfield. He's versatile enough to cover several players (Henderson, Allen, maybe Coutinho) for at least short periods and I do think he has the potential to develop into a CL quality CM/CAM. That said, he doesn't directly address any of the specific needs we currently have in midfield: i.e. a goal threat, another reliable creative outlet, or a defensive shield for the defense and I'm not sure he'd actually be a starter currently... a fit and in-form Allen (which has been a rare, but not nonexistent sight) is still superior and Henderson has established his importance to our side this season. Gerrard is captain and is Gerrard while Lucas would still be our only real DM/recycler.

So yes, I'd take Holtby for the right price. Unfortunately, I can't see Spurs (Levy) accepting that price to sell to a direct rival (and there is really no doubt that Spurs will see us as just that). Anywhere from 5 to 8m and I'd definitely be ok with the signing. Anywhere below that and we'd be dumb NOT to make a bid. Anywhere above and I think that money could be more wisely used elsewhere on addressing more specific concerns and/or on currently superior players.
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Post by RedOranje Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:47 am

Luke Shaw wrote:
Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool and Tottenham have already registered an interest in signing Shaw this month following Nicola Cortese’s decision to quit as executive chairman.
...
Chelsea and City are willing to pay more than £20 million for Shaw, this month or at the end of the season.
United, Liverpool and Spurs have also asked to be kept informed about the situation.
Shaw and his representatives want to meet Southampton chiefs to find out what the exact situation is, but the club have so far failed to tell them who they need to speak to.
It leaves a huge question mark over the future of the 18-year-old left-back, who is destined to leave Southampton either this month or in the summer.

Jay Rodriguez wrote:
Rodriguez has been left in limbo over a clause in his contract that states he will be due a new deal once he has made 45 starts for the Saints.
The forward, who made his England debut in November, has reached 42 and negotiations with his representatives were progressing well with Cortese last week.
But Rodriguez and his camp now fear they will be back at square one and could even face a big delay in trying to find out whether he will be offered a significant pay rise.
Rodriguez has two years remaining on his contract, which is worth around £25,000 a week, but his impressive performances have attracted admiring glances from Liverpool and Arsenal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/10578360/Luke-Shaw-and-Jay-Rodriguez-seek-assurances-from-Southampton-as-Premier-League-big-hitters-hover.html


Would love it if we nabbed Shaw out from under Chelsea after they refused to discuss a potential deal for Bertrand however I doubt we'll be able to compete with either Chelsea or City financially and Shaw is (apparently) a Chelsea fan himself, to that deal is probably a bridge too far (get it?).  At least it's a good show of ambition to be in for him.

I like Rodriguez, honestly.  He's quick and a goal threat, though he lets himself down a bit in creating chances, given that he's a wide player primarily rather than a striker.  That said, he'd be an absolutely fantastic option to have for depth/rotation/off the bench for us assuming the "significant  pay rise" he wants doesn't put him up in silly figures for such a role.


I'd take either/both of them, honestly.  That said I don't expect to see either arrive.
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Post by RedOranje Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:56 am

Rodgers confirmed in his press conference that the club are actively looking to loan Ilori out for experience in the second half of the season and suggest that Ibe may follow suit.
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Post by Red Alert Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:34 am

Red Alert wrote:M'Vila looks like he's going to Napoli...

This was from Sky Italy btw.

S wrote:
Di Marzio wrote:Napoli’s pursuit of Jorginho is intensifying. There is an ongoing meeting between Bigon, Sogliano (the sporting directors for Napoli and Verona) and Jorginho’s agents that has been going on for the last few hours. Today the parties met multiple times, they are working on the formula of the transfer and the figures of the operation. Progress is being made, they are working towards reaching the conclusion of the negotiation. This evening Jorginho’s agents will return to Verona to talk to the player, they will evaluate Napoli’s offer. Napoli is pushing to seal the deal for Jorginho.

This is now.

Rafa casually stealing all our targets.  :whistle: 
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Post by RedOranje Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:28 am

Assuming, of course, that the reports from random rags and tabloids and internet Internet Bullshit Artists are in any way accurate and any of those players are actual serious targets of ours... sure, we'll go with that.
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Post by iftikhar Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:52 am

1. Yeah, we can't really compete (even with profound prospect of CL) with City or Chelsea (in terms of fee and wage). And I'm sure Shaw will play regularly in Chelsea, so no leverage there too. But can we take this chance to nab Bertrand. How do you rate him! He 25 in August, so he is basically running out of time to improve.

2. Isn't Rodriguez like Henderson! Sorry if I'm wrong as I have seen him only on handful of occasions.

3. What about Wanyama!!! We have been actively looking (after quiet a while) for defensive minded mid-fielder to cover Lucas.

4. Lallana is another that comes to mind. But I doubt we would go after him unless we want to sell/loan either of Alberto & Allen.

5. Schneiderlin!!! What do you know and think about him. Heard him name quiet often but no idea about what he is like.
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Post by Red Alert Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:57 am

I'm just going with the thread... those players (M'Vila/Jorginho) have been thrown around in this thread for some time.
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Post by Helmer Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:25 pm

Mourinho, biatch, Betrand on loan to Villa Mad

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Post by Helmer Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:32 pm

RedOranje wrote:If Holtby were available for a few million I'd take him.  At the very least he'd add some very good and very much needed depth to our midfield.  He's versatile enough to cover several players (Henderson, Allen, maybe Coutinho) for at least short periods and I do think he has the potential to develop into a CL quality CM/CAM.  That said, he doesn't directly address any of the specific needs we currently have in midfield: i.e. a goal threat, another reliable creative outlet, or a defensive shield for the defense and I'm not sure he'd actually be a starter currently... a fit and in-form Allen (which has been a rare, but not nonexistent sight) is still superior and Henderson has established his importance to our side this season.  Gerrard is captain and is Gerrard while Lucas would still be our only real DM/recycler.

So yes, I'd take Holtby for the right price.  Unfortunately, I can't see Spurs (Levy) accepting that price to sell to a direct rival (and there is really no doubt that Spurs will see us as just that).  Anywhere from 5 to 8m and I'd definitely be ok with the signing.  Anywhere below that and we'd be dumb NOT to make a bid.  Anywhere above and I think that money could be more wisely used elsewhere on addressing more specific concerns and/or on currently superior players.
with all the points mentioned, I would take him too. If he returns to Schalke, see him doing great there, he will be also eligible to play for CL i guess. He will outperform the scrub midifled of RM (b4 Alonso plays for them)

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Post by Helmer Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:40 pm

Regarding Illori, it would be better to send him on loan to any English club or champioship club, he will get used to the kind of pace and defending.
On the other side, if goes to a Spanish club probably he will learn how to defend with the ball at his feet, the Spanish way which BR may prefer in the end hmm

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Post by mr-r34 Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:46 pm

RedOranje wrote:Rodgers confirmed in his press conference that the club are actively looking to loan Ilori out for experience in the second half of the season and suggest that Ibe may follow suit.

Ibe should of been on loan for the whole season imo.
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Post by RedOranje Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:20 am

I'm sure everyone will be excited about this:

It sounds like Gerrard is going to sit in most matches (barring ones that require more defensive cover) with two of Allen, Henderson, and Coutinho running ahead of him.


“We’ve been playing with a single pivot and two in front since the game at Tottenham,” Rodgers said.

“I prefer it with two attacking players in the midfield three. I don’t like two defensive players, I’d rather have one defensive and two attacking.

“For the two pushed on, it’s about getting up, pressing and suffocating the game when we don’t the ball.

“When we have it, it’s about being positive and getting in the corridor in the box.

“It’s my preferred system when we have the players available but obviously certain games dictate certain tactics. At times we may need to spin it around and play the other way.”

...

“What’s important for me in the two advanced roles is that they have to be able to really go and press the ball high up the field. That’s how the system works.

“Jordan and Joe Allen did that exceptionally well in the games when Steven was out and Lucas was controlling in behind.

“If you flip it around and put Steven there, look at the range of passing he gives you and his agility with the ball. That leaves the other two boys in midfield to go and join in higher up the pitch like they did at Stoke."

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-brendan-rodgers-plan-6525151

With that it seems a CDM drops off the list of transfer targets.


James Pearce (LFC focused reporter for the Liverpool Echo) believes (personal views, mind) that LFC will be active late on in the window though.
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Post by Red Alert Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:37 am

Gerrard can't defend. No idea what BR is doing.

Get cover for Lucas and stop experimenting. It's taken Gerrard over a year to stay disciplined as a CM, what makes you think he's just going to be tactical aware to play as the most defensive minded midfielder? He made Adam look like Lampard with the amount of space Adam had to operate in the last game...

Lucas is also back in form... put him back in his natural position and stop f*cking around.  Neutral 
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Post by Art Morte Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:33 am

Why do you think Gerrard can't defend? He does make tackles, chases players and is an excellent reader of the game. Doesn't even foul as much as Lucas, although it remains to be seen what happens if / when he starts playing that role.

If we were a relegation-battling side then I'd prefer to have an out-and-out DM in that role, but we should be looking to dominate most games and when that's the case, I absolutely prefer having a player with Gerrard's technical ability in that role rather than someone who doesn't contribute much when going forward, especially since we play a three-man midfield, you need every bit of technical ability there. And I believe Gerrard can defend (although I worry about his occasional carelessness on the ball, that deep-lying position is no place to lose the ball).
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Post by Helmer Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:57 am

Gerrard should be played in that role, I dont see any other role for him which suits to him according to his current stamina. Another thing is, he might take time to do that, on the road we might concede one or 2 goals because of him losing the ball OR positional awareness. (b4RedAlert'I had told you...fffs').
I am OK with it in long term, we could use Gerrard very effectively, I understand that RedAlert is considered about defensive nature of the game but it would help us to better dominate games.

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Post by donttreadonred Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:25 pm

If Gerrard and Rodgers dedicate themselves to playing him in a regista role, then I think Gerrard has a lot of the qualities necessary to be a top-class regista. The only problem is that I’m not sure we have the set-up to play with a regista. Moreover, the system Brendan describes as his preferred system in his interview is similar to Barcelona’s (Guardiola’s) magic 4-3-3. That system doesn’t really use a regista.

Look at Barcelona’s set-up for a minute. The role Gerrard would be occupying is manned by Busquets. Busquets is far from a regista. In truth, he is closer to a very technical CB that begins higher up the pitch, dropping into the backline when in possession and stepping forward between the lines when out of possession. He’s a pressure release valve and shield, not the controller that Gerrard is being asked to be. Busquets’ role is more suited to a hybrid CB/DM such as Javi Martinez, Capoue, M’Vila, De Rossi, etc. The closest we have to that type of player is Lucas. However, as we’ve seen in recent seasons, his combination of pace and positional discipline have let him down.

A far more apt comparison to what Gerrard is being asked to do is Andrea Pirlo. (Under Ancelotti, Pirlo actually made the very same move from AM to regista, but he did it far earlier in his career.) Pirlo is no defensive midfielder, and you can see this by the way the midfields have been structured around him. At Milan, he was often employed at the base of a midfield diamond or a midfield 5 (Christmas tree), with 2 shuttlers on either side of him. At least one of these players was usually a combative midfielder/destroyer-type, ala Gattuso.

More recently, Pirlo has been employed at the base of a 1-2 triangle in Juventus’ midfield. However, this midfield is very different in composition and quality to ours. When they first employed this tactic, Juve used Marchisio and Vidal in front of him. Marchisio is more of an all-around CM, but Vidal certainly was an out-and-out DM. Both players are competent at pressing and tackling, and are also very willing runners, often doing Pirlo’s running for him. Now, Juve often use Pogba and Vidal in front of him. Pogba is far more Viera than Makalele, but he’s no slouch in the tackle, and at 19 he has the legs to cover the entire field of play. Moreover, their midfield three is supported by an extra central defender playing directly behind Pirlo. Therefore, Pirlo is never asked to drop between the CB and act as the 3rd CB while in possession. He’s allowed to sit closer to the midfield and continue to direct play.

Gerrard does have one advantage in that he has always been a more physical player than Pirlo. However, he’s beginning to lose his legs, and he’s certainly not accustomed to the positioning of a shielding player, nor the discipline to hold that position in order to uphold his defensive responsibilities. That sounds far more pessimistic than intended, but it’s not wholly untrue. I do think this set-up can work against certain opposition. My concern is if this is our long-term strategy for all matches. If we’re going to use Gerrard in this role, we will require either a change in formation, more combative/mobile CMs, or possibly both.

In short, while I applaud the innovation of the tactics, I’m concerned about their viability in the long-term and their effect on our transfer policy.
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Post by Art Morte Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:52 pm

donttreadonred wrote:If Gerrard and Rodgers dedicate themselves to playing him in a regista role, then I think Gerrard has a lot of the qualities necessary to be a top-class regista. The only problem is that I’m not sure we have the set-up to play with a regista. Moreover, the system Brendan describes as his preferred system in his interview is similar to Barcelona’s (Guardiola’s) magic 4-3-3. That system doesn’t really use a regista.

Look at Barcelona’s set-up for a minute. The role Gerrard would be occupying is manned by Busquets. Busquets is far from a regista. In truth, he is closer to a very technical CB that begins higher up the pitch, dropping into the backline when in possession and stepping forward between the lines when out of possession. He’s a pressure release valve and shield, not the controller that Gerrard is being asked to be. Busquets’ role is more suited to a hybrid CB/DM such as Javi Martinez, Capoue, M’Vila, De Rossi, etc. The closest we have to that type of player is Lucas. However, as we’ve seen in recent seasons, his combination of pace and positional discipline have let him down.

A far more apt comparison to what Gerrard is being asked to do is Andrea Pirlo. (Under Ancelotti, Pirlo actually made the very same move from AM to regista, but he did it far earlier in his career.) Pirlo is no defensive midfielder, and you can see this by the way the midfields have been structured around him. At Milan, he was often employed at the base of a midfield diamond or a midfield 5 (Christmas tree), with 2 shuttlers on either side of him. At least one of these players was usually a combative midfielder/destroyer-type, ala Gattuso.

More recently, Pirlo has been employed at the base of a 1-2 triangle in Juventus’ midfield. However, this midfield is very different in composition and quality to ours. When they first employed this tactic, Juve used Marchisio and Vidal in front of him. Marchisio is more of an all-around CM, but Vidal certainly was an out-and-out DM. Both players are competent at pressing and tackling, and are also very willing runners, often doing Pirlo’s running for him. Now, Juve often use Pogba and Vidal in front of him. Pogba is far more Viera than Makalele, but he’s no slouch in the tackle, and at 19 he has the legs to cover the entire field of play. Moreover, their midfield three is supported by an extra central defender playing directly behind Pirlo. Therefore, Pirlo is never asked to drop between the CB and act as the 3rd CB while in possession. He’s allowed to sit closer to the midfield and continue to direct play.

Gerrard does have one advantage in that he has always been a more physical player than Pirlo. However, he’s beginning to lose his legs, and he’s certainly not accustomed to the positioning of a shielding player, nor the discipline to hold that position in order to uphold his defensive responsibilities. That sounds far more pessimistic than intended, but it’s not wholly untrue. I do think this set-up can work against certain opposition. My concern is if this is our long-term strategy for all matches. If we’re going to use Gerrard in this role, we will require either a change in formation, more combative/mobile CMs, or possibly both.

In short, while I applaud the innovation of the tactics, I’m concerned about their viability in the long-term and their effect on our transfer policy.

I think this deserves a reply, especially after the Aston Villa game.

What I find particularly interesting is the comparison of Busquets to a technical CB. In a way I feel that's exactly what we would need in our current system. In a nutshell: Lucas isn't technical enough and Gerrard is still learning that DM role. I think he can defend all right, but doesn't have the mind-set of anticipating situations from a defensive point of view. In fact, our pressing system seems to be very much still taking its baby steps.

So - and this is a bit of a wrong thread for this, but I'll ask it anyway - what should be our XI and formation in our next games? Was the poor home performance against Aston Villa only a tactical blip since they are a very different side compared to pretty much any other PL team? Or should we start considering dropping one of our shining attacking players for a midfielder:

a) Drop Coutinho. Creative passes from AM positions would be reduced quite a bit.

b) Drop Sterling. Lose width and one-on-one ability in favour of midfield steel.

c) Drop Sturridge. Play with a lone striker Suarez and gain better control in midfield and out wide.

d) Keep them all, Coutinho, Sterling and Sturridge on the pitch with Suarez and hope that we are still able to dominate games.
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