Re: Jose Mourinho: I admire Arsene Wenger and Arsenal, who are loyal in bad moments - of which there were a lot

by ExtremistEnigma Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:23 pm

Zealous wrote:I'm paraphrasing but Valdano once said "The team that doesn't win trophies has to fill the gap with a story, something intangible."

In essence he's 100% right.

by RealGunner Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:24 pm

Zealous wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
Zealous wrote:I'm paraphrasing but Valdano once said "The team that doesn't win trophies has to fill the gap with a story, something intangible."

In essence he's 100% right.

And we have filled that gap with a very very big 60k seater story

Again he means that if you don't win you have to change the narrative. Like yeah we didn't win this cup buuuuuut look at X, Y, Z let's talk about that instead.

Intangible success has it's place in sports but it sort of needs trophies to validate it's existence.

Which will come in time. Hopefully.

Arsene is going to leave the club financially self sustainable. The best condition anyone could have dream off. We are now in position where we can model Bayern which was always the plan and we are getting closer to it with every season.

Arsene is going to be here for the next 2 years at best. Maybe not even that if we don't win anything this season. But he is leaving a legacy. Anyone who comes after that will have no restraint. He can have no excuse. So trophies should come eventually.

by Zealous Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:27 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Zealous wrote:
RealGunner wrote:

And we have filled that gap with a very very big 60k seater story

Again he means that if you don't win you have to change the narrative. Like yeah we didn't win this cup buuuuuut look at X, Y, Z let's talk about that instead.

Intangible success has it's place in sports but it sort of needs trophies to validate it's existence.

Which will come in time. Hopefully.

Arsene is going to leave the club financially self sustainable. The best condition anyone could have dream off. We are now in position where we can model Bayern which was always the plan and we are getting closer to it with every season.

Arsene is going to be here for the next 2 years at best. Maybe not even that if we don't win anything this season. But he is leaving a legacy. Anyone who comes after that will have no restraint. He can have no excuse. So trophies should come eventually.

Agree, hopefully they do Proud

by The_Badger Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:37 pm

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:
Lex wrote:
Zealous wrote:It's just trash talk. If Wenger is so insecure that Jose's comments hurt him then that's his problem
So it's Wenger's fault?

Wenger provoked Mourinho to make those "specialist in failure" comments. Wenger is cunning enough to cry wolf :lol:These new comments in the OP were not even a dig, honestly, look at the video.

RealGunner wrote:
Red Alert wrote:

He's also won as many league titles as Wenger in 1/5th of the games Arsene has managed.

different circumstances.

Wenger will no doubt go down as a legend in the PL, but Mou definitely will too. All of Chelsea's success is pretty much down to Jose.

Roman not Jose.

Different circumstances? OK but still 3 league titles and 0 Champions League for Wenger in 18 years is pretty bad for a top manager. Not sure how many excuses you can make up for those numbers.

Of course, he could have gone to one on the many top European clubs that have courted him in that time and won more. Moved on after a few years to another club and won a few things there. Easy work if you can get it.

Yes, it's ultimately down to Abramovich, but Jose is equally responsible. You can't just buy trophies, you need to assemble a world class winning squad, and that's hard to do with a team that hasn't won a lot in its history. And the squad Jose build was responsible for the CL success.

Mourinho is not equally as responsible at all. Chelsea's current status is down to Abramovich's money. He rescued the club when they were on the verge of collapsing, wiped out CFC's debt and has pumped over a billion into making them what they are. The fact Chelsea win trophies and titles regardless of who is in charge suggests the manager at the club is not as important as it is elsewhere.

by Freeza Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:01 pm

ExtremistEnigma wrote:
Freeza wrote:It's not all about trophies. I'd rather support a team that plays entertaining football than a more boring style. Trophies are just bonuses.
That's just delusion speaking lol.

Why? I watch football for the entertainment of the game. Watching football just for the trophies is like watching movies just because of award shows. In the essence, everything is about the entertainment. The trophies are just another element to the overall entertainment.

by Onyx Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:54 pm

The 'entertainment' factor doesn't matter when you're ranking or judging someone. At the end of the day, it's the trophies that teams/managers get judged on. That's what ranks you and that's what proves you were the best at something. Not the brand of football, not how long the manager has been at a club etc.

The main priority of a top club isn't to play good football, it's to win trophies.

I'm not saying teams have to play boring football, just saying it's the trophies that get looked at in the end.

by RedOranje Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:52 am

You keep contradicting yourself, and ignoring others' points MT.

by chad4401 Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:32 am

Zealous wrote:I'm paraphrasing but Valdano once said "The team that doesn't win trophies has to fill the gap with a story, something intangible."

In essence he's 100% right.

sorry but attractive football>trophies...... Laughing

, seriously loyalty, stability and attractive football has its own merits to fans and the club in a lot of ways, but after a while one must get tired of playing the same records again at the end of the season, trophies are PROOF that your team is the best, not golden boots, ballon d'or, stadiums or financial statements, just trophies.

Valdano :bow:

by Red Alert Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:06 am

by Donuts Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:25 am

Yohan Modric wrote:The 'entertainment' factor doesn't matter when you're ranking or judging someone. At the end of the day, it's the trophies that teams/managers get judged on. That's what ranks you and that's what proves you were the best at something. Not the brand of football, not how long the manager has been at a club etc.

The main priority of a top club isn't to play good football, it's to win trophies.

I'm not saying teams have to play boring football, just saying it's the trophies that get looked at in the end.

I would rather watch Arsenal win nothing for the rest of my life then watch a team like Di Matteo's Chelsea (aka park a plane+buss) win trophies, but maybe that is just me.

by Kick Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:26 am

Donuts wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:The 'entertainment' factor doesn't matter when you're ranking or judging someone. At the end of the day, it's the trophies that teams/managers get judged on. That's what ranks you and that's what proves you were the best at something. Not the brand of football, not how long the manager has been at a club etc.

The main priority of a top club isn't to play good football, it's to win trophies.

I'm not saying teams have to play boring football, just saying it's the trophies that get looked at in the end.

I would rather watch Arsenal win nothing for the rest of my life then watch a team like Di Matteo's Chelsea (aka park a plane+buss) win trophies, but maybe that is just me.

I rather enjoyed RDM's CL win :coffee:

by El Chelsea Fuerte Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:28 am

Red Alert wrote:

Dude that's fantastic.

by Winter is Coming Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:03 am

Entertainment always matters and style of play is big in football. Even today when teams that don't win much people always praise the way they play and love to watch them, Ie: Roma, Swansea, Southampton etc.

Titles are always important and we'd all love to see our clubs win them, however they it is always as important as people make it out to be. When people look back at this time Barcelona, Bayern and Inter won trebles, who do you think people are going to remember more? No disrespect to Inter fans, but won't be them, because Barcelona/Bayern styles were better and more memorable.

We look back and we had Puskas Hungry who dominated world of football in the 40-50's winning a gold medal and making it to the world cup final, but people still remember them for their style of play. Netherlands of the 70's never won either, but still are remember for their style. Even the Netherlands that won the Euros in 88 many would say the 70's was still better. Brazil of the 80's is another one to name.

People look at us under Pep and the 14 of 19 titles that we won, but what stand out the most is the way we played. Many clubs have either tried, or are trying to play like us, or adapt the same philosophy.

by Abramovich Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:16 am

Freeza wrote:
ExtremistEnigma wrote:
Freeza wrote:It's not all about trophies. I'd rather support a team that plays entertaining football than a more boring style. Trophies are just bonuses.
That's just delusion speaking lol.

Why? I watch football for the entertainment of the game. Watching football just for the trophies is like watching movies just because of award shows. In the essence, everything is about the entertainment. The trophies are just another element to the overall entertainment.

That's a really plastic glory supporting view, you support your team through good and bad times. If they are playing shite or not, sure its not fun sometimes when your getting owned but its part of the game, cant win every game. Football is played to be won and not entertain this isn't WWE.

Non Spanish Madrid fan? Won't comment Smile

.

by El Chelsea Fuerte Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:29 am

RealGunner wrote:
El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:
RealGunner wrote:

bit ironic considering your trophies came from money rather than the other way round?

What has that got to do with the topic in hand? Who buys the club isn't the manager's concern. I'm talking about this from the manager's perspective.

And how can a manager win trophies while the club is financially crippled and not afford to sign the best players around without selling their own?

Yes, that would be hard.

by izzy Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:32 am

Abramovich wrote:That's a really plastic glory supporting view, you support your team through good and bad times. If they are playing shite or not, sure its not fun sometimes when your getting owned but its part of the game, cant win every game. Football is played to be won and not entertain this isn't WWE.

Stupidity at its finest. :facepalm:

by Donuts Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:35 am

Abramovich wrote:That's a really plastic glory supporting view, you support your team through good and bad times. If they are playing shite or not, sure its not fun sometimes when your getting owned but its part of the game, cant win every game. Football is played to be won and not entertain this isn't WWE.

lol what

by Abramovich Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:38 am

OK yeah let's just watch football cos of the entertainment factor and pick the teams that always win all the time and score many goals. Fun fun.

by izzy Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:43 am

Abramovich wrote:OK yeah let's just watch football cos of the entertainment factor and pick the teams that always win all the time and score many goals. Fun fun.

....... and the stupidity continues....... :facepalm:

by BeautifulGame Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:44 am

Abramovich wrote:
Freeza wrote:
ExtremistEnigma wrote:
That's just delusion speaking lol.

Why? I watch football for the entertainment of the game. Watching football just for the trophies is like watching movies just because of award shows. In the essence, everything is about the entertainment. The trophies are just another element to the overall entertainment.

That's a really plastic glory supporting view, you support your team through good and bad times. If they are playing shite or not, sure its not fun sometimes when your getting owned but its part of the game, cant win every game. Football is played to be won and not entertain this isn't WWE.

Non Spanish Madrid fan? Won't comment .

What rubbish is this.

Sport is for entertainment whether its football or any other sport.

by Abramovich Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:46 am

OK lol "my team are losing and playing shit, not so much entertaining not gonna watch"

What ever makes you happy I guess.

by Abramovich Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:47 am

Soooo the objective of a team / sportsman should be to entertain the fans rather than win the game?

Funny that.

by izzy Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:49 am

Abramovich wrote:OK lol "my team are losing and playing shit, not so much entertaining not gonna watch"

What ever makes you happy I guess.

Wow.

So, you got into football because of winning trophies? Not because you saw a team you liked to watch and felt entertained by them? Rolling Eyes

The competitive edge ADDS to the ENTERTAINMENT.

Stupidity.

by El Chelsea Fuerte Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:53 am

izzy wrote:
Abramovich wrote:OK lol "my team are losing and playing shit, not so much entertaining not gonna watch"

What ever makes you happy I guess.

Wow.

So, you got into football because of winning trophies? Not because you saw a team you liked to watch and felt entertained by them?
The competitive edge ADDS to the ENTERTAINMENT.

Stupidity.

Well, you can't get entertained with a team that frequently loses, and as such you're going to stick with the team that's winning (trophies) otherwise you won't get entertained.

by Abramovich Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:54 am

If I got into football because of trophies I would support Madrid. Its not about trophy's and I swear it seems like an alien concept on this forum, I didn't pick my club I inherited it I assume someone like Lex/RG the same.

Outside this forum I swear if someone said I picked that team because they win all the time that = glory supporting.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:57 am

I fail to see why some are labeling Abramovich as "stupid". A real fan sticks with their team through thick and thin...I don't want to speak for him, but all he's saying is that you take the good with the bad. Just because some of you disagree with the notion, doesn't make him incorrect...just a difference of opinions and if you think that makes him stupid, you should consider taking a look in the mirror.

On topic: Mourinho at it again. He might get results, but he comes across as a spoiled child for me. Gets all the toys in the world and eventually gets bored with them and moves on. He gets his results, there is no doubt about that and at this point I can't blame him for carrying on the way he does because it's working for him. That being said, I can't respect the "man" because I don't feel as if he respects the game.

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