Jose Mourinho: I admire Arsene Wenger and Arsenal, who are loyal in bad moments - of which there were a lot

I fail to see why some are labeling Abramovich as "stupid". A real fan sticks with their team through thick and thin...I don't want to speak for him, but all he's saying is that you take the good with the bad. Just because some of you disagree with the notion, doesn't make him incorrect...just a difference of opinions and if you think that makes him stupid, you should consider taking a look in the mirror.

On topic: Mourinho at it again. He might get results, but he comes across as a spoiled child for me. Gets all the toys in the world and eventually gets bored with them and moves on. He gets his results, there is no doubt about that and at this point I can't blame him for carrying on the way he does because it's working for him. That being said, I can't respect the "man" because I don't feel as if he respects the game.

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:Well, you can't get entertained with a team that frequently loses, and as such you're going to stick with the team that's winning (trophies) otherwise you won't get entertained.

No.

Entertainment is not just down to winning trophies.
It's enjoyment. Trophy element only comes into play if you support a top club who always compete for honours.

Again, competition ADDS to Entertainment. Not the other way round.

To act like trophies = entertainment?   

izzy wrote:

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:Well, you can't get entertained with a team that frequently loses, and as such you're going to stick with the team that's winning (trophies) otherwise you won't get entertained.

No.

Entertainment is not just down to winning trophies.
It's enjoyment. Trophy element only comes into play if you support a top club who always compete for honours.

Again, competition ADDS to Entertainment. Not the other way round.

To act like trophies = entertainment?   

No, winning is entertainment. And with winning comes trophies. That's why most of football fans support the well-known teams, because they watch football for entertainment, and you can't get entertained with a team that does not compete at a high level.

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:No, winning is entertainment. And with winning comes trophies. That's why most of football fans support the well-known teams, because they watch football for entertainment, and you can't get entertained with a team that does not compete at a high level.

No. It's not the winning. It's the competition. Competing is what adds to entertainment.

Trophies are just bonuses.
Most support well-known teams because broad-casted the most and seen to be the most COMPETITIVE.
People like to watch high-level competition, the trophies come second to a fan of the sport.

If you don't feel entertained by the quality of product you are watching, why should you care about the trophy?

It's the same reason why many here don't watch the Bundesliga. High-level competition is not at it's best right now in the league.

CBA with any more just to end with you play sports to win/progress as #1 priority and not to entertain.

Abramovich wrote:CBA with any more just to end with you play sports to win/progress as #1 priority and not to entertain.

Yes. But, You're NOT playing. You're a fan.   

You support your team because you want them to win and not to entertain, if its the other way round then I really don't know what goes on in your head. Maybe you have a different definition of support, maybe I cab relate some what. I used to watch NBA didn't support any team, occasionally wanted some teams to beat others and generally wanted the rockets to win but never supported them as a fan. As I wasn't a proper fan, didn't feel much emotion if they lost/won compared with my football team.

I'm a bit confused here, are you arguing that A) winning is what matters in football and that B) those that argue it isn't are more likely to be "glory hunters" and switch clubs when theirs isn't winning?

Isn't that a bit contradictory?

OK we can replace glory with what random says as a true / hardcore fan that would fit in with the point? Need to bounce now but been fun xo xo

Abramovich wrote:You support your team because you want them to win and not to entertain, if its the other way round then I really don't know what goes on in your head. Maybe you have a different definition of support, maybe I cab relate some what. I used to watch NBA didn't support any team, occasionally wanted some teams to beat others and generally wanted the rockets to win but never supported them as a fan. As I wasn't a proper fan, didn't feel much emotion if they lost/won compared with my football team.

What?

There's a difference in being a fan of a specific team and a fan of a sport.

With the team, you become invested with them (like you with Chelsea), so of course you want them to win.
But, like you said, you used to watch the NBA, you didn't really have a team, so a specific team winning or losing had no bearing on you, so trophies didn't matter and you watched the league because you were entertained because of the level of competition.

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:

Red Alert wrote:

Dude that's fantastic.

Thanks.

I made stole it from reddit myself.  

Abramovich wrote:You support your team because you want them to win and not to entertain, if its the other way round then I really don't know what goes on in your head. Maybe you have a different definition of support, maybe I cab relate some what. I used to watch NBA didn't support any team, occasionally wanted some teams to beat others and generally wanted the rockets to win but never supported them as a fan. As I wasn't a proper fan, didn't feel much emotion if they lost/won compared with my football team.

so if your favored club starts losing you'd stop watching them because they are not entertaining anymore?? essentially you only watch when they win..
do you live in Miami also?

Did'nt you hear of Abramovich's logic before? You only have the right to be a fan of a club if you are from the same city or your grandparents supported them

I know I'll support my team even if they play cantenaccio in Serie D for the next 20 years.

ranDOM 10 wrote:I fail to see why some are labeling Abramovich as "stupid". A real fan sticks with their team through thick and thin...I don't want to speak for him, but all he's saying is that you take the good with the bad. Just because some of you disagree with the notion, doesn't make him incorrect...just a difference of opinions and if you think that makes him stupid, you should consider taking a look in the mirror.

On topic: Mourinho at it again. He might get results, but he comes across as a spoiled child for me. Gets all the toys in the world and eventually gets bored with them and moves on. He gets his results, there is no doubt about that and at this point I can't blame him for carrying on the way he does because it's working for him. That being said, I can't respect the "man" because I don't feel as if he respects the game.

Because he posts a lot of sense which upsets a few.

People saying trophies aren't that important are the exact kind of person that picks the club they claim to support due to those exact things.

They never pick the clubs that don't win regular silverware like Norwich, or Bastia, or Torino.

The_Badger wrote:

People saying trophies aren't that important are the exact kind of person that picks the club they claim to support due to those exact things.

wat

people saying trophies aren't important are people who support their teams because of trophies? is there a coherent point hidden somewhere in that sentence? because i sure as hell can't find it

They never pick the clubs that don't win regular silverware like Norwich, or Bastia, or Torino.

except, you know, for the hundreds of thousands of people around the world who support exactly clubs like that, and they don't do it because of trophies, but because of the *entertainment* they provide, whether that's due to exciting style of play or due to providing a common conversation topic at the local pub

They pick these clubs to support because of their success, no other reason. What is it you struggle to understand about this?

This "entertainment" excuse is utter nonsense.

so again, how do you explain the millions of people who support smaller teams?

che wrote:so again, how do you explain the millions of people who support smaller teams?

Because these are their local clubs. These people aren't glory supporters.

These smaller clubs don't have the appeal overseas the big, successful clubs do.

and why should they be excluded from the discussion? if the point is that people choose teams to support based on how likely they are to win trophies, ignoring a huge portion of fans that doesn't do it is a pretty significant issue

There's 2 different discussions going on here.

First one is 'why you support a team and watch it'.

Second is 'how you judge a manager or club'.

The second one is clear, trophies.

Look, che. The point is trophies are important, very important. They define the success and statue of a club. Without silverware, there would be no justifying the billions Abramovich has spent at Chelsea. With silverware, Wenger wouldn't be under the intense scrutiny to win something.

Now, it appears to me you've not followed what has been posted and what people have been responding to and got yourself a little confused here.

i read the last two pages where abramovich is confusing himself, saying that entertainment isn't important because you'd just stop supporting your team if they played like shit, but trophies are important, but apparently it doesn't follow that if trophies were so important there would be a lot more gloryhunters than there is right now

che wrote:i read the last two pages where abramovich is confusing himself, saying that entertainment isn't important because you'd just stop supporting your team if they played like shit, but trophies are important, but apparently it doesn't follow that if trophies were so important there would be a lot more gloryhunters than there is right now

But there is a lot of gloryhunters. You only need go to South East Asia and see the Chelsea support that exists there that didn't pre-Abramovich.

Yohan Modric wrote:There's 2 different discussions going on here.

First one is 'why you support a team and watch it'.

Second is 'how you judge a manager or club'.

The second one is clear, trophies.

So, for example, should the manager of Aston Villa, Hull, or Southampton be fired, because he failed to win a trophy?

I'm sorry, but you simply cannot judge a manager or club by trophies alone. That's asinine. Managers are judged just the same as any employee of a major organization: by goals and achievements. These goals are usually agreed upon at regular intervals, and the employee's achievements are measured against them after the interval is completed. Does that mean that the employee will be fired if they don't meet the specified goals? Not necessarily, but it's far more likely in football than other areas. Only the organization and the manager are necessarily privy to the goals set.

We, as supporters, often project our own goals and objectives (as well as biases) upon the manager. It's important that we realize this. Moreover, it's important to realize that your personal goals for the manager/club may not align with what the club management has set. Only severe unrest or perceived, gross negligence/incompetence can override management's goals and force a change to be made.

The_Badger wrote:

che wrote:i read the last two pages where abramovich is confusing himself, saying that entertainment isn't important because you'd just stop supporting your team if they played like shit, but trophies are important, but apparently it doesn't follow that if trophies were so important there would be a lot more gloryhunters than there is right now

But there is a lot of gloryhunters. You only need go to South East Asia and see the Chelsea support that exists there that didn't pre-Abramovich.

Maybe the fact Chelsea is probably on TV in South East Asia then pre abra days.

Blue wrote:

The_Badger wrote:

che wrote:i read the last two pages where abramovich is confusing himself, saying that entertainment isn't important because you'd just stop supporting your team if they played like shit, but trophies are important, but apparently it doesn't follow that if trophies were so important there would be a lot more gloryhunters than there is right now

But there is a lot of gloryhunters. You only need go to South East Asia and see the Chelsea support that exists there that didn't pre-Abramovich.

Maybe the fact Chelsea is probably on TV in South East Asia then pre abra days.

Chelsea's games were still broadcast before he came along.