Re: If not Martino, whom?

by BarrileteCosmico Sun May 04, 2014 7:20 pm

LVG and rijkaard don't count, they're Dutch.
And Martino only said these statements after the league was lost, before that he tried to put on an optimist face

by The Franchise Sun May 04, 2014 7:22 pm

Well they are foreign..but yeah, my point really is its the philosophy, not the Nationality/La Masia grad.

La Liga was lost before last week, I dunno who believed otherwise...the players didnt.

by Winter is Coming Sun May 04, 2014 10:14 pm

^Well had we won this weekends game seeing RM and Atleti dropping points we could've had a chance to win the league.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun May 04, 2014 10:50 pm

Wasn't really his fault we lost though, he played the first eleven we've been wanting all along. It was the players who gave up.

by shinigami99 Sun May 04, 2014 11:00 pm

I agree BC. We had lots of chances too, not sure wtf the players were thinking.

by free_cat Mon May 05, 2014 10:01 am

Even if we fluke the league, he will have to go. He is not good enough. The nice thing is that he is very honest and he himself admits it. I like the guy a lot in that regard.

by Jonathan28 Mon May 05, 2014 1:03 pm

The players are at fault for a lot of this. How many chances have they completely wasted? They have missed chance after chance in so many games this past year, in games against Madrid, Atletico, Getafe etc, which if we had taken, we would probably be on our way to winning the treble.

Seriously, what happened to our teams finishing? It was very good in the first half of the season but in the second it has gone to compete shit.

by neuro11 Mon May 05, 2014 4:33 pm

Well, we fans can think what we want.....But i don like professional players and coach giving up with 3 matchday and mathematical possibility still remaining. I can understand its hard with all we had been passing through in last one month or more specifically in last four months. But still not fighting till the last moment is not acceptable from the professionals. i don knwo whether they lack loyalty....or don care the club anymore....or just they have broken completely....but for me as a fan it is too depressing....

by futbol Mon May 05, 2014 4:40 pm

It's almost official now that it's going to be Lucho. Zubi met him today.

If not Martino, whom? - Page 7 10314733_844231462272204_846589729720091420_n

If not Martino, whom? - Page 7 Bm4D5TZCAAAKGX2

by danyjr Mon May 05, 2014 5:51 pm

He is not the right person for Barcelona, and that is coming from someone who idolised Luis Enrique as a child.

by neuro11 Tue May 06, 2014 7:13 am

danyjr wrote:He is not the right person for Barcelona, and that is coming from someone who idolised Luis Enrique as a child.

explain a little more.....I din see his Roma....But he seems to be doing well with celta,no??

by windkick Tue May 06, 2014 6:05 pm

danyjr wrote:He is not the right person for Barcelona, and that is coming from someone who idolised Luis Enrique as a child.

Agree 100%.

I dont like this route they are taking. They keep trying to find another Pep, who does what Pep did, but Enrique isnt good enough. Like a notch above Roura (a bit harsh but someone had to say it)

by danyjr Tue May 06, 2014 6:26 pm

Enrique will be an upgrade over Martino because he knows the club inside out and has plenty of experience as a player and coach in La Liga. But that is not good enough. In my opinion Martino was better than the late Vilanova, except he got a team at the end of its cycle with no pre-season and virtually no say in summer transfers. And he didn't (and still doesn't) have the balls to change anything even if he felt was required. A weak character giving too much respect to things he should be on top of.

World class clubs like Barcelona need to have world class coaches and in my opinion Luis Enrique is not one. His tactics are quite basic and reminiscent of that of Vilanova, he is extremely stubborn to change and lacks psychological techniques that are required in modern football. As windkick said, I think it is all trying to repeat the Guardiola era with Enrique but you tell me how many sequels you've watched that lived up to the original.

Everything should start with sacking Zubizarreta and co. because until they are at Barça you won't go anywhere and even if something good happens I'll write it down to luck rather than the competency of these clowns. He's had more than enough time to prove himself and has failed. Why do coaches constantly get sacked and not the sporting directors and club presidents? Why is it always the coach? It is unfair.

Spoiler:

by futbol Tue May 06, 2014 7:02 pm

Well, looking at the alternatives, there isn't any saver bet out there. What I like about Enrique is that he's got personality. He was a club captain and is very well liked among Culés. He will demand respect automatically just for who he is. If the rumours about Puyol are also true there won't be leadership and discipline problems anymore. Everyone will run and sweat.

Tactics are secondary as far as I'm concerned. Barca players know what to do since age 6 tactically. You don't have to teach them detailed tactics. Unless the formation is tinkered with too much you can't do much wrong.

Positives are also that Lucho puts emphasis on fitness and prefers youth. He retired with 32 with Spain to make room for youngster and tried to oust Totti at Roma. Soon 35 year old Xavi starting all games is over as far as I'm concerned.

His stint at Roma wasn't successful but teaching possession, pass and move in Serie A is hopeless anyway. 100 % sure even Guardiola wouldn't have done much better with that Roma side. The only question mark would be why he attempted to turn Roma into a poor man's Barca without having the players for it instead of being pragmatic and adapting different tactics. But okay, at Barca this will certainly not be a problem to apply Barca tactics to Barca players.

At Celta he did well. They are above Valencia in the table right now. Last season after matchday 36 they were bottom of the table. They only survived relegation on the last matchday with a narrow 1-0 against Espanyol. Major improvement on that.

In essence I just want to see defensive reinforcements and the return of more discipline / workrate. And less wingplay.

Lucho can't do too much wrong. Even with a completely unknown from the Argentinian league and all the shit surround the club this season + major injuries (Valdes, Pique, Messi's form), we could still very well win La Liga. Lucho can't possibly do worse.

by Hapless_Hans Tue May 06, 2014 7:19 pm

Fußball wrote:Well, looking at the alternatives, there isn't any saver bet out there. What I like about Enrique is that he's got personality. He was a club captain and is very well liked among Culés. He will demand respect automatically just for who he is. If the rumours about Puyol are also true there won't be leadership and discipline problems anymore. Everyone will run and sweat.

Tactics are secondary as far as I'm concerned. Barca players know what to do since age 6 tactically. You don't have to teach them detailed tactics. Unless the formation is tinkered with too much you can't do much wrong.

Positives are also that Lucho puts emphasis on fitness and prefers youth. He retired with 32 with Spain to make room for youngster and tried to oust Totti at Roma. Soon 35 year old Xavi starting all games is over as far as I'm concerned.

His stint at Roma wasn't successful but teaching possession, pass and move in Serie A is hopeless anyway. 100 % sure even Guardiola wouldn't have done much better with that Roma side. The only question mark would be why he attempted to turn Roma into a poor man's Barca without having the players for it instead of being pragmatic and adapting different tactics. But okay, at Barca this will certainly not be a problem to apply Barca tactics to Barca players.

At Celta he did well. They are above Valencia in the table right now. Last season after matchday 36 they were bottom of the table. They only survived relegation on the last matchday with a narrow 1-0 against Espanyol. Major improvement on that.

In essence I just want to see defensive reinforcements and the return of more discipline / workrate. And less wingplay.

Lucho can't do too much wrong. Even with a completely unknown from the Argentinian league and all the shit surround the club this season + major injuries (Valdes, Pique, Messi's form), we could still very well win La Liga. Lucho can't possibly do worse.

No pressure, then rofl

by The Franchise Tue May 06, 2014 9:16 pm

We looked pretty (being kind) terrible the last 2 years, so I wouldnt agree that tactics are secondary and I wouldnt agree the players can figure it out for themselves.

What happened at Roma isnt what would put me off though. I guess thats a positive.

by futbol Tue May 06, 2014 10:20 pm

I don't know man. Overcoming a CL 2 goal deficit and beating Milan 4-0 with Roura on the bench and winning La Liga with 100 points with Tito in the US for a quarter of the season doesn't sound too bad to me. I'd say the lack of defenders + depth + motivation + Xavi's, Alves' and Puyol's (all key components) decline was a bigger reason for the past 2 seasons than tactics.

What I meant with "tactics secondary" wasn't that tactics are completely irrelevant though. Obviously you have to adapt to every opponent. It's just not as important for us because we have clear principles since Jesus got nailed. Brendan Rodgers for example would have to teach at Liverpool how to bring the ball out of the back, to split the centerbacks, the DM to drop deep, how to press etc. Simply do more tactical coaching. At Barca all of that is very much clear and already drilled into everyone's head since childhood. We know how we want to play. Only detail work is required.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue May 06, 2014 10:28 pm

danyjr wrote:Why do coaches constantly get sacked and not the sporting directors and club presidents? Why is it always the coach? It is unfair.

Because no president is going to sack himself or his best friend he brought to be a sporting director, and they wont fire stars even when needed because that's unpopular with fans, so that leaves the coach as the only other scape goat. We sign a few stars, get a new coach, the fans will quiet down for a few months and then the cycle repeats.

IE we are now pre-Mou Madrid.

The fault has to lie with the socis who voted Rosell in, in spite of him running on a campaign against everything that Laporta stood for.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue May 06, 2014 10:35 pm

Zubi should tell LE that if he can get points against Madrid on Sunday he can come to Barca. Otherwise pls go.

Madrid looked ridiculously tired on their last game, they're traveling away on Wed and again on Sunday, so they're unlikely to get any decent rest. It's now or never Lucho.

by danyjr Tue May 06, 2014 11:18 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Zubi should tell LE that if he can get points against Madrid on Sunday he can come to Barca. Otherwise pls go.

by neuro11 Wed May 07, 2014 4:50 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Zubi should tell LE that if he can get points against Madrid on Sunday he can come to Barca. Otherwise pls go.

you concede goal on 90 mins and put pressure on LE...thts unfair man.... eco smile

by neuro11 Wed May 07, 2014 5:44 am

danyjr wrote:Enrique will be an upgrade over Martino because he knows the club inside out and has plenty of experience as a player and coach in La Liga. But that is not good enough. In my opinion Martino was better than the late Vilanova, except he got a team at the end of its cycle with no pre-season and virtually no say in summer transfers. And he didn't (and still doesn't) have the balls to change anything even if he felt was required. A weak character giving too much respect to things he should be on top of.

we often bring these excuse when we consider Martino`s failure. but honestly, how much are those issues responsible....specially considering he made too many other mistakes and that he was given the chance to participate in summer transfer, should we even mention those excuses any more...

by The Franchise Wed May 07, 2014 10:33 am

Fußball wrote:I don't know man. Overcoming a CL 2 goal deficit and beating Milan 4-0 with Roura on the bench and winning La Liga with 100 points with Tito in the US for a quarter of the season doesn't sound too bad to me. I'd say the lack of defenders + depth + motivation + Xavi's, Alves' and Puyol's (all key components) decline was a bigger reason for the past 2 seasons than tactics.

What I meant with "tactics secondary" wasn't that tactics are completely irrelevant though. Obviously you have to adapt to every opponent. It's just not as important for us because we have clear principles since Jesus got nailed. Brendan Rodgers for example would have to teach at Liverpool how to bring the ball out of the back, to split the centerbacks, the DM to drop deep, how to press etc. Simply do more tactical coaching. At Barca all of that is very much clear and already drilled into everyone's head since childhood. We know how we want to play. Only detail work is required.

Those are results though, not how we looked.

The positional play and movement has been a disorganised mess, since Pep left. Even in the last season with Pep where we didnt win and where we tried one formation too many, it was still more organised and plays roles were clearly defined.

Last two season's there are more questions than ever as to what is supposed to be happening.

Yes, those issues are worth a mention. Of course, if we had a centerback we would be better. But I dont think we are beating "anyone" without some clear tactical changes. Even the simple things are gone.

Liverpool build up play from the defence to the midfield, alot better than us, on a organisational and tactical level. They are better positioned and give themselves the best chances of dealing with pressure as you allued to.

I dont think its drilled into the players heads, they know basically what should be happening, but it takes a coach to find solutions.

Basically what I am saying is, if we bring in a coach who dont know what he is doing tactically, we going to fail all the same.

by Winter is Coming Wed May 07, 2014 9:52 pm

Tata better redeem himself as the rest of the squad winning La Liga.

by futbol Thu May 08, 2014 2:41 pm

Franchise, here is what I mean:

De Boer (coach Ajax): "Barça? They need more a manager than a coach, and I'm more a coach. What can you teach Messi or Iniesta?" [gazzetta]

by The Franchise Thu May 08, 2014 10:45 pm

I agree with that.

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