Louis van Gaal

I really don't know anymore, the only reason I can think of is that I don't want to sack two managers in two seasons. His subs were awful.

I've had enough if him.

I've had enough of his shit football. His shit subs that always seems to kill our momentum. His baffling tactics.

I'm sick of him.

Let's stick with him to see if he can guide us to top 4(which I doubt). If he doesn't , sack him. I don't care if we have to start over, just get rid.

His failure is his own undoing.

Ive had enough.

Who would we get? People need to calm down tbh. Fickle fans. Too spoilt tbh. I'm glad this is happening. Remember SAF went 4 years without winning a major title in 02 and 06. I'm up for giving him at least 2 more seasons tbh. He has proven he can restructure clubs.

RED wrote:I've had enough if him.

I've had enough of his shit football. His shit subs that always seems to kill our momentum. His baffling tactics.

I'm sick of him.

Let's stick with him to see if he can guide us to top 4(which I doubt). If he doesn't , sack him. I don't care if we have to start over, just get rid.

His failure is his own undoing.

Ive had enough.

jibers wrote:

Who would we get? People need to calm down tbh. Fickle fans. Too spoilt tbh. I'm glad this is happening. Remember SAF went 4 years without winning a major title in 02 and 06. I'm up for giving him at least 2 more seasons tbh. He has proven he can restructure clubs.

To my understanding jose mourinho wanted this Job when Ferguson retired but Alex insisted Moyes got the Job. This is where it went wrong imo the board should of made the logical decision and offered the job to an experienced manager..

You'll have start again and do it properly fortunately for me I don't think you'll finish top 4 so this could be LVG's last and only season.


But who next.....??

jibers wrote:

Who would we get? People need to calm down tbh. Fickle fans. Too spoilt tbh. I'm glad this is happening. Remember SAF went 4 years without winning a major title in 02 and 06. I'm up for giving him at least 2 more seasons tbh. He has proven he can restructure clubs.

cmon man, he's been sh*t- the negatives far outweigh the positives. Invested heavily in the summer and we churn out crap display after crap display on a weekly basis. And by the looks of things, we may not even get top- his one main objective for this season. It's a poor return.

whether we're spoilt or not, that's besides the point, this is Man Utd. We're not entitled to win everything, but we have high standards here, and not making top 4 for the 2nd season running, all the while playing shit football, that's not on at all.

Could you imagine Bayern, RM and Barca being in this position, clubs of a similar stature, their fans would be going nuts just like us. Look at RM, there is already murmurs coming out that Ancellotti may get the sack, look at their season compared to us and the success he's brough them. Standards. I'm not advocating we should be like Real btw.

I know none of these clubs have had such a drastic change and transition we're going through, but cmon man, with the squad of players at his disposal, he should be doing better. He should be getting top 4, nothing else matters. If not- bye.

Look at today, the team were gaining momentum and were heading into the break the better team, he makes half time subs and 2nd half we were utter shet. It's happened time and time again.

We'll get someone who can scrap this philosophy turgid crap football, get us playing direct football, which we are renowned for, stop tinkering with the team and quit making subs during games that hinder us more times than not.

Can I just say, you lot now understand why Chelsea went through so many managers.

It is extremely difficult in this day in age to get a quality manager. So I would not be so quick to call for the sacking on LVG, unless there is a suitable replacement available.

Also, @ Frantic, that is not how it happened, from what I've read, Jose was lined up for the Utd Job but Chelsea came calling, so Utd went for Moyes instead.

RED wrote:

jibers wrote:

Who would we get? People need to calm down tbh. Fickle fans. Too spoilt tbh. I'm glad this is happening. Remember SAF went 4 years without winning a major title in 02 and 06. I'm up for giving him at least 2 more seasons tbh. He has proven he can restructure clubs.

cmon man, he's been sh*t- the negatives far outweigh the positives. Invested heavily in the summer and we churn out crap display after crap display on a weekly basis. And by the looks of things, we may not even get top- his one main objective for this season. It's a poor return.

whether we're spoilt or not, that's besides the point, this is Man Utd. We're not entitled to win everything, but we have high standards here, and not making top 4 for the 2nd season running, all the while playing shit football, that's not on at all.

Could you imagine Bayern, RM and Barca being in this position, clubs of a similar stature, their fans would be going nuts just like us. Look at RM, there is already murmurs coming out that Ancellotti may get the sack, look at their season compared to us and the success he's brough them. Standards. I'm not advocating we should be like Real btw.

I know none of these clubs have had such a drastic change and transition we're going through, but cmon man, with the squad of players at his disposal, he should be doing better. He should be getting top 4, nothing else matters. If not- bye.

Look at today, the team were gaining momentum and were heading into the break the better team, he makes half time subs and 2nd half we were utter shet. It's happened time and time again.

We'll get someone who can scrap this philosophy turgid crap football, get us playing direct football, which we are renowned for, stop tinkering with the team and quit making subs during games that hinder us more times than not.

Seriously dude, you are dealing in short termism. My point is that van Gaal is trying to change the philosophy and introduce positional play to this club. As far as football intellect goes, our players are savages. van Gaals methods worked far better in Germany because continental footballers are used to intelligent tactics. We spent money. So what? Who did we get? Herrera? Falcao? Imagine Pep trying to introduce his own philosophy. His is even more complicated. Maybe we should hire Sam Allardyce. I'm in this for the long term. SAF was a freak of nature and one of the last of his kind.

Who should we get then RED? Direct footbll we are known for? We played utter trash football since 2009. I can see what LVG is trying to do but it will take time. It's like teaching players a new language, especially with this tactically unaware clowns we have. Give him 2 more seasons and we will play the best football in the league.

quick football mate, wing play, quick pass and movement, take risks, take shots ffs. Our players look shit scraed to make a mistake bar Di Maria- and that is mainly his philosophy. It's posession based till the oppo gets tired/bored then we exploit a mistake and try to score. Recyling of posession.

It's all about short termism if the required targets are not met. It's absolutely vital that this club doesn't drift away from getting constant top 4.

I'd have more faith in him if he didn't make the many mistakes he is continously making, week after week. Bizarre positions of players, bizarre subs during the game, freezing out players, favouritsm of out of form players(RVP). He is not instilling any confidence that he will get it better or that this philosophy of his will work in England because so far it looks like he struggling to adapt to English football and resorting to hoofball tactics as a quick panic get out jail of card.

And now it looks like we'll have to squander many millions on players that suit his style of play. I'm sorry, I think he should be doing better with what he's got. Only Young and to some extent, Fellaini, have progressed under him, and Blind who is accustommed to LVG. The rest have either become stagnant or have regressed.

I personally like what Pocchetino is doing at Spurs, I enjoy their football. I think with a big budget and working with our current players, he would excel at United. He's a young progressive manager.

Ancellotti too if he becomes available in the summer.

United did not and do not need "restructuring" as such. They just needed to replace the old guard as the squad got to the end of its cycle when Ferguson squeezed the last juices out of it in his final year. LVG had plenty of money to spend to buy players in the summer, all he needs to do now is to get them to play to their potential. And there is a lot of potential in the squad. If he can't get it out, he's not the right guy for the job.

We do. Out youth system is crap. People keep harping on about the class of '92. Who else have we produced? LVG can restructure our youth system.

Arte it's not just about potential. He has to teach them about positional play. I don't think you understand how hard it is. EPL players especially ENglish players are tactically clueless and have low tactical IQs which is why they look lost in Europe. The only period English teams looked decent in Europe is wen Rafa Mou and Carlos Quieroz (coached) us.

People know too litle about coaching to see what he is trying to do. This stubbornness by united fans is a microcosm of English attitude to change and why English football has been behind the continent for over half a century.

Building a good youth system cannot be any sort of reason to keep the country's richest club's manager in his job. If he does build a good youth system, that's a bonus, but that's all.

Coaching the players to be (tactically) better, okay, that can be a reason, but results of such coaching need to start showing in the results of the games.

Anyway, if Van Gaal delivers a top-4 finish, that's a successful season. If he doesn't, he has probably been no better than Moyes.

Art Morte wrote:Building a good youth system cannot be any sort of reason to keep the country's richest club's manager in his job. If he does build a good youth system, that's a bonus, but that's all.

Coaching the players to be (tactically) better, okay, that can be a reason, but results of such coaching need to start showing in the results of the games.

Anyway, if Van Gaal delivers a top-4 finish, that's a successful season. If he doesn't, he has probably been no better than Moyes.

Again, please go and look up what positional play means. Too many football fans (98%) have no clue about tactics. van Gaal is trying to teach them very complicated stuff and they will adapt slower because English football literally requires 0 tactical nous. Bayern picked it up quicker because the players they had were smarter. English footballers have very low tactical IQ, even the top ones because ENlish football just doesn't use it because of the way the football is played and the kick and rush is what fans demand.

We need a good youth system, it has been the backbone of all our good teams. I cringe when I see people calling Peps name, if van Gaal's philosophy is taking this long to be adapted, Pep would need at least 2 seasons more as his positional game is far more vertical. Typical English bubble right here and it frustrates me.We don't make top 4 for another season, so *bleep* what? Arsenal made top 4 what did they do? Liverpool for all the talk of getting back in to cl embarrassed themselves. There is a bigger problem here with English football but as usual short termism is the usual consensus. It's moments like these that you see how truly fans, and especially United fans know about football. Roy Keane as usual is the only one that is spot on.


RED I also find it interesting that you seem to be referring to us going back to playing like we did under SAF (or historically with wingers). Please tell me how good the football we played was under SAFs last few years from 2007/2008 season. It was utter trash. We won so I guess that covers the cracks or people seem to want to romanticise the past. I still remember Cruyffs first game in La Liga when Barcelona fans booed his team for passing back to the Keeper Fans are opposed to change.

I don't know if he'll be success or not, with Moyes I knew by early January that I no longer thought he was good enough. I do admit Jibers makes some good points. The most annoying thing about LvG is he seems to create problems on his own, after solving the problems he created previously, that's incredibly frustrating. Even then, I'm not 100% sure like I was with Moyes, so I'm not LvG out right now.

jibers wrote:

Again, please go and look up what positional play means. Too many football fans (98%) have no clue about tactics. van Gaal is trying to teach them very complicated stuff and they will adapt slower because English football literally requires 0 tactical nous. Bayern picked it up quicker because the players they had were smarter. English footballers have very low tactical IQ, even the top ones because ENlish football just doesn't use it because of the way the football is played and the kick and rush is what fans demand.

We need a good youth system, it has been the backbone of all our good teams. I cringe when I see people calling Peps name, if van Gaal's philosophy is taking this long to be adapted, Pep would need at least 2 seasons more as his positional game is far more vertical. Typical English bubble right here and it frustrates me.We don't make top 4 for another season, so *bleep* what? Arsenal made top 4 what did they do? Liverpool for all the talk of getting back in to cl embarrassed themselves. There is a bigger problem here with English football but as usual short termism is the usual consensus. It's moments like these that you see how truly fans, and especially United fans know about football. Roy Keane as usual is the only one that is spot on.


RED I also find it interesting that you seem to be referring to us going back to playing like we did under SAF (or historically with wingers). Please tell me how good the football we played was under SAFs last few years from 2007/2008 season. It was utter trash. We won so I guess that covers the cracks or people seem to want to romanticise the past. I still remember Cruyffs first game in La Liga when Barcelona fans booed his team for passing back to the Keeper Fans are opposed to change.

Jibers brought me back with this post.

Positional play
And This does makes sense.

It is a long-term plan. You will definitely give up goals and lose games while trying to implement this. You will be working against a majority of coaches who encourage a very direct style of soccer that results in a kick and chase strategy that is focused around their strongest player. That type of soccer works at younger ages when physically dominant kids can have a disproportionate impact on the game. Gradually that changes and if you have been focusing on teaching proper positional play, your team will be far beyond these teams tactically when the physical differences start to level out.

wow

So the next step would naturally be as Jibers correctly pointed out in upgrading our youth system + buying young players to implement that 'philosophy' as it will seep through them much easily (as opposed to older players), if we look at it as per that article about positional play.

So the van persies, falcaos, and even rooneys will be shipped off and the depays, dybalas, and tielemanses will be brought.

And lvg resorting to hoofball when his philosophy aint working is also understandable according to that. The physically dominant players will be only here until the younger more 'tactically or in this case philosophically' aware players develop. Very interesting. Hope its like that.

@Lumiere

It's so difficult because the player are used to playing very unstructured football. It's in our collective DNA. I haven't seen us playing hoofball once. We switch the ball and we use a man that canbring the ball down and win second balls. Ever since Pepcelona pass that goes further than 10 m is hoofing and this shows just the kind of insecurity there is in English football.

People need to go and look at what LVG did at Ajax, some of you might be a bit to young but that team is the second best team I saw in my life before Pep's team. That was the perfect example of a club going in one direction. FOr LVG to change this club, it will take him at least a decade. I know the chances are small but I hope he gets time. Bayern are getting dividends for the game he laid out for them and that is why the took up Peps positional game much faster than I thought.

He will have to fight the whole club to restructure it. The whole country is run with archaic ideals. At least this is a start.

I've been massively disappointed by him, but I've come to realize that it won't do no good to sack him if we don't make top 4. Unless we do extremely rubbish like lose all our upcoming games against the top 6 teams, or something extreme like that where the board would have no option but to re-assess his position.

Woodward clearly stated that the team's objection was top 3 this season. Intent being on potential suitors to the club. He will have to make a big decision depending on how badly LVG does in the run in.

I'm leaning atm towards giving him another summer to fully build the team he wants, get rid of more of the mediocrity engulfing the squad. If things haven't improved by, say, Dec/Jan.....then it should be adios, imo.

@MikeKeegan_DM
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Told tonight United have already agreed three deals for the summer. No names mentioned but it's looking like a better structured window.

Wheels are in motion.

hmm, but if theres a definite plan in motion, its better the club stick with it.
So .. let's see where we stand and what stand lvg will take when it comes to his so called favourite players. If the club decide (or at least attempt to, by not giving him a new contract or something) to offload Van persie this summer or shortly even after that then that will be the clear signal we all are looking for and I will back Louis even if we fail to get top 4 for 1 or even more seasons (provided there are visible changes in the manner in which we play).
When we are at it, let's make the wholesome long term changes and rise to challenge for titles and not merely top 4 trophy. So 2 or 3 more windows for van gaal. More than short term results, its long term performances which this club need. Let the arsenals and liverpoops get top 4, if we can win the league regularly after 3 or 4 seasons, I am all for that. Let us lie low key as of now.

As far as the so called repercussions of not finishing in top 4 repeatedly is concerned, true I am worried and we may fail to attract big names. But I personally dont want big names if the names we get are di maria et al who dont give a damn about playing for the club and get visibly irritated when substituted etc. These players feel as if they are doing us a favor by signing for us. I will say just  bleep off to PSG to di maria if thats the case. Commercial implications I dont know much. Will the sponsorship we signed last season help in softening the blow?? Can someone clarify that ? Will we be in massive debt if we fail to finish top 4 again ?

I've been a firm critique of his the past few months due to his baffling decisions, etc etc etc...I won't bore anyone with it. But well done to him and the team. The slight blemish is( don't mean to criticize, need to point it out) that it took a injury to RVP and the sending off of ADM for Mata to get in the team (fair play to him, responded very well) and for Rooney to push up top.

Still slightly skeptical, and it hinges on whether LVG places RVP straight back in the team once fit. Will he disrupt the team to accommodate his 'player'.

Fair play to LVG for getting the best out of Fellaini, Young and Mata. Working out a false winger type role for Mata to work well in tandem with Herrera and Valencia. A role Mata has flourished in the past 2 matches. Getting Fellaini to work the channels in the final third whenever our passing lanes are blocked or when we're pressed he gives us the option to play a direct ball to him to knock down and bring others into play- effective, and Young has been a revelation this season (compared to his last 2) has combined well with Blind and Fellaini in our left hand side the past 2 games and generally been solid and hard working, defensively and offensively.

The team atm looks focused, tactically astute, confident, energetic, pressing well, etc. Just solid all over. Not to mention Smalling and Jones have put in 2 very good performances.

Has it clicked? Signs are there.

Credit to LVG for all this. For getting us the double over Liverpool. For having us well organized and in bullish mood heading into our most difficult and testing period of the season.

Just that slight concern that he may revert to his stubborn ways once RVP comes back, and then have Rooney back in mf and have Herrera be the fall guy. Don't make me mad again Louis

Ok enough of that, positive thoughts.

I hope he benches Rooney and starts RVP tbh. RVP would be much better in this system for sure.

My keppten ollwayz playz.

jibers wrote:I hope he benches Rooney and starts RVP tbh. RVP would be much better in this system for sure.

yes, same with falcao. Its so unfortunate that only now van gaal has started to use this system. Had it been used from the start with falcao as the lone striker then possibly he would have already signed a contract with us. Poor guy had to play in a 2 striker system and it wasnt a surprise he was a flop for us.

meh i've given up on Flopcao...his knee injuries have done his pace in rendering him useless essentially.

wanted him to succeed but it's clear it's not a fit...bring me the next Aguero in Dybala

RED wrote:I've had enough if him.

I've had enough of his shit football. His shit subs that always seems to kill our momentum. His baffling tactics.

I'm sick of him.

Let's stick with him to see if he can guide us to top 4(which I doubt). If he doesn't , sack him. I don't care if we have to start over, just get rid.

His failure is his own undoing.

Ive had enough.

I still stand by what I said at the time. Playing Rooney as cm while Herrera was at the bench, Playing Di Maria as striker, etc, etc. He was tinkering too much and was trying to be too clever and it was infuriating to watch. Who knows what team he would have picked had RVP not gotten injured and Di Maria not suspended.

I'm glad he stuck to his guns for the City game and started the team that is doing well for us, despite RVP and Di Maria both being available to start

He's clearly a brilliant manager and I'm very happy he's turned it around for us.