Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Myesyats on Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:31 pm

Its been his first game since months I think lol chill the feck out

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:34 pm

Bartra's games are always the first game since weeks, and any mistake he makes grants him criticism and the bench from Luis Enrique.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Myesyats on Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:41 pm

Its different when you come from an injury though. Verms was shit and no one denies it so just calm down.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by futbol on Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:44 pm

That's because Bartra is dog poo in general. Was about to trip over his own feet and hit the deck when Iturbe was running at him. Messi saved his ass with a yellow card tackle. No quality whatsoever, living the Jonathan dos Santos life, posting more selfies on Instagram in a week than making appearance for Barca in a year.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Lucifer on Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:02 pm


Verma is bound to be stiff and rusty the guy hasn't played competitive game since hitting puberty. Let him play more matches before giving verdicts guys. If he shits on opportunities then he can fhak aph till then lets reserve our opinions shall we
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by The Franchise on Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:19 pm

Pirloisjesus wrote:
Verma is bound to be stiff and rusty the guy hasn't played competitive game since hitting puberty. Let him play more matches before giving verdicts guys. If he shits on opportunities then he can fhak aph till then lets reserve our opinions shall we


Why though? The last time he had 1 good season was his very first season with Arsenal, and even then it was at least 50% based on him scoring goals rather than defending.

Its very difficult to give someone the benefit of the doubt when you cant even remember the last time they were good.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Lucifer on Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:25 pm

Fair enough. But Bartra an Mathieu also don't have exactly a strong resume do they? He is not subbing Maldini or Nesta that's what I meant.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by The Franchise on Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:41 pm

Well no, I am not a fan of either of those guys. I said many times our CB options are horrible, we have quantity but barely any quality.

But I do think Bartra should get more chances. I dont care if he is bad or not, he at least has the possibility to improve...Verm doesnt.

If I dont like either player, I will always go with the one who by some miracle could improve and become useful.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Lucifer on Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:06 pm

Maybe I am wrong but I think many good CBs except ofcourse Puyol and pique  do/will struggle with us because they are required to do a job which is not exactly what you expect from a conventional center back. So they have to maintain high line, have atleast decent distribution also be good on ball and absorb pressure to name few. + all other defensive duties. Hence its not very easy position to play for us and people more often than not struggle.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by The Franchise on Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:22 pm

I think our line isnt very different to most top teams any more. Many teams change between high, mid and low lines even within the same game. I dont really see the high line as a problem because we dont always play with high pressure, which allows the CB's to play in a mid line.


I agree with you about the ball distribution, we probably have higher standards than most teams. But at the same time, this is 2015 and its been quite a long time to be considered normal to make good passes from the defence. I think by now, "conventional CB's" have to be able to play with the ball, or you cant play for a top team.

Varane, Kompany, Thiago Silva, David Luiz, Marqinhos, Boateng, Hummels and im sure others if I really think about it make up a long list of CB's who are far superior with the ball and use it better.

All this being said, my criticisms of Bartra/Mascherano/Verm/Mathieu are usually not any of these things.

I am not thrilled with Mascherano and Mathieu ball playing at all, but even if they were good at it, I still wouldnt like them for different reasons.


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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:49 am

@futbol wrote:That's because Bartra is dog poo in general. Was about to trip over his own feet and hit the deck when Iturbe was running at him. Messi saved his ass with a yellow card tackle. No quality whatsoever, living the Jonathan dos Santos life, posting more selfies on Instagram in a week than making appearance for Barca in a year.


You are dog poo to be honest.

Bartra is the typical case of player that has all the quality and only needs a run of games and confidence to show it.

He was almost dribled in a one on one completely isolated by a good dribler running at full speed, so? (was recovering already when Messi fouled, otherwise would have been a red card...). Not that intolerable.

Much worse to make 4 big mistakes like Vermaelen, or one big mistake in half a match vs. Madrid like Mathieu and Masche.


Last edited by free_cat on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by futbol on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:32 am

It never happens that someone who is supposed to be Barca starting quality gets shafted to 5th choice in his position behind average players like Mathieu and Vermaelen. Literally never. Even less so by at least 3 different coaches with 2 of them being youth coaches in the past (Tito prefered Song and even Adriano there before Fartra). I'd also add Pep who gave Muniesa his debut over Fartra despite Muniesa being 17 at the time and younger so it was clear who he rated higher. Training staff of a club of Barca's stature isn't that daft. Platitudes of Internet fanboys like "he just needs to play more" are just that: platitudes.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:56 am

It happens, look at Roberto.

And there are many other examples of players that weren't given chances until late. Puyol was almost out of Barça and made his debut surprisingly late. Iniesta was third choice behind Deco and Xavi until 2007/08. And many other examples.

There are even more examples of players who were playing kind of average and when given a run of games exploded, due to confidence. Whomever that thinks confidence is not important in football, hasn't played the game. And Bartra's confidence is probably shattered right now after being ostracized for 3 seasons, he shows all the symptoms of lack of confidence.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by futbol on Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:35 pm

@free_cat wrote:It happens, look at Roberto.

And there are many other examples of players that weren't given chances until late. Puyol was almost out of Barça and made his debut surprisingly late. Iniesta was third choice behind Deco and Xavi until 2007/08. And many other examples.

There are even more examples of players who were playing kind of average and when given a run of games exploded, due to confidence. Whomever that thinks confidence is not important in football, hasn't played the game. And Bartra's confidence is probably shattered right now after being ostracized for 3 seasons, he shows all the symptoms of lack of confidence.


Laughing

Abomination of a post. Iniesta wasn't last choice behind players of the quality of Mathieu, Vermaelen, Song, Adriano and Mascherano in his position. He competed with Xavi and Deco, 2 world class players. And still, with 20 he already made 37 league appearances. In the CL final in 2006, when he was 2 years younger than Fartra is now, he was the first sub to come on at half time. There was always room to get Iniesta on the pitch, nothing like Bartra's situation at all. His quality was apparent. Real Madrid were ready to pay his buyout fee in 2007 (€ 60M at the time, would be something like € 100M in today's market).

Roberto another abomination of an example. Roberto is still not starting material for Barca. He's proving to be a very solid and versatile rotational player but he still lacks quality to be a world class player who can make a starting spot his own throughout a season. Maybe at rightback. But that's a different scenario again, if Bartra suddenly shines in a different role as a DM or fullback I won't say anything. As a CB he lacks quality for Barca.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:03 pm

Yeah, whatever, can't spend time arguing with you ad eternum. When Bartra starts games or goes somewhere else were he is played, shows his quality and eventually becomes the starter for Spain (or Catalonia), you'll just see he was quality.

PS. Piqué, ostracized at ManU another example. Lots of them.
PS2. Deco world class in 2006/07 or 2007/08? and still above Iniesta. Laughing


Last edited by free_cat on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by The Franchise on Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:15 pm

I am not a believer in Bartra, but I dont think just because he doesnt play now, it automatically means he sucks. That doesnt seem logical to me.

Coaches make choices for many reasons. I think Bartra is simply not picked because its easy not to pick him, the guys in front are more experienced and are paid more money. So its almost an obligation to play them first, the club paid this money for them (and the coach seems to have a hand in choosing them) so of course they are favoured.

Sure, if Bartra was special then a coach would elect not to sign anyone and simply use him. But I dont think he is a special talent, but defiantly not worse than Mathieu, Verm or Mascherano. They are all more or less on a similar level where each have pros and cons.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:26 am

Piqué with two awful mistakes vs Sociedad that luckily didn't end up in goals. Now, I like Piqué and definitely is one of the best CB in the world, and he too makes bad mistakes. That was Bartra, we would never hear the end of it and people would be calling him Shakiro or Fraudqué, and Luis Enrique wouldn't play him next month.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Lucifer on Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:44 pm

Technically people would be calling him Fartra hmm
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Deja Vu on Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:00 pm

@free_cat wrote:Piqué with two awful mistakes vs Sociedad that luckily didn't end up in goals. Now, I like Piqué and definitely is one of the best CB in the world, and he too makes bad mistakes. That was Bartra, we would never hear the end of it and people would be calling him Shakiro or Fraudqué, and Luis Enrique wouldn't play him next month.


That's the exact reason why you shouldn't compare his case to Bartra's. Pique is a proven world-class player and has been a key figure in Barca's success since 2009 while Bartra has struggled to impress and as such the criticism he gets is completely justified. Don't forget he'll be 25 years old in Jan. He's no longer a "kid with potential".

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:31 pm

@Deja Vu wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Piqué with two awful mistakes vs Sociedad that luckily didn't end up in goals. Now, I like Piqué and definitely is one of the best CB in the world, and he too makes bad mistakes. That was Bartra, we would never hear the end of it and people would be calling him Shakiro or Fraudqué, and Luis Enrique wouldn't play him next month.


That's the exact reason why you shouldn't compare his case to Bartra's. Pique is a proven world-class player and has been a key figure in Barca's success since 2009 while Bartra has struggled to impress and as such the criticism he gets is completely justified. Don't forget he'll be 25 years old in Jan. He's no longer a "kid with potential".


No, that's plain wrong. He has done very well when he's played, but people nitpick at his mistakes like there's no tmorrow. It was the same with Pique and many young players at the begining (Buquets too), but they had trust from their coaches. If they behaved with them like they are doing to Bartra, we would have Toure and Marquez still starting for us.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Deja Vu on Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:06 pm

Your post implies people have some sort of agenda against Bartra which couldn't be further from the truth. If he's unpopular among the fans AND the coaching staff, it's probably for a good reason.

I also don't recall Pique and Busquets getting the same treatment as they've always been fan favorites, excluding the time when Pique had a severe dip in form a while ago which generated a lot of valid criticism of his performances.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:11 pm

Nope, they haven't been fan favourites, especially when they came on (especially Busquets). You have bad memory.

Well, some people does have an agenda against Bartra. Generally, there isn't an agenda against Bartra, but Luis Enrique just doesn't trust younger footballers much. He generally only plays them when he doesn't have other options.

And that means there's a fairness problem when he compares Bartra to Mascherano, Mathieu and vermaelen and one pays for his mistakes and the others don't because they are older.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by eelir on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:42 am

although i do not agree completely with what free is saying about Bartra, he is right about Bussi. Remember, he was this unproven kid who replaced the great Yaya. I think Bussi's every move was judged. But, as he was really good, it did not take long for fans to like him, unlike Bartra who obviously is not and probably will not be on Bussi's level.
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Lucifer on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:03 am

That's the point if the player has got it then true fans will always appreciate him,might be slowly but definitely. The fact that it hasn't happened for Bartra speaks for itself .
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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by free_cat on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:32 am

someone wrote:
Why the insecurities about Bartra? He's been an absolute revelation this season. Played 10 games, 3 goals conceded. Hasn't been involved in any of those. Very good in the air. Very good passing (Hudson was going mental about his diagonal balls against Granada). Quick. Showing immense mental strength to perform as he does despite what happened last season. Insane amount of blocks and tackles. Gets beaten here and there like against Betis in the first half. But big deal for a 22 year old centerback who is just breaking out. And then you name Jones and Smalling? Pls. Bartra was chosen best defender in the Segunda. You don't get that kind of award playing for a defensively inept team like Barca B for nothing. We don't need to splash millions on hyped up prospects like Mangala, Sakho or Zouma when we have Bartra performing as he does. What we need is an experienced player. Not someone who will block Bartra's path.

Flashbacks are cool.

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Re: Thomas Vermaelen - The Unlikely Hero

Post by Myesyats on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:44 pm

Futbol. :bow:
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