Re: The Official Winter Transfer Rumours Thread

[Sri]

[RedOranje]

Keep in mind that those are Falcao's wages AFTER TAX as well... if my knowledge of England's taxes are solid that's around 500k/week prior to taxes.

nah I think there's some misunderstandings there.

All we know is that both Monaco and Utd have confirmed Utd will cover all of Falcaos wages, and that those were 12m € net at Monaco.
that's  ~180k £ net/ week.
Now if you calculate that he has to pay taxes of 45% you'd arrive at a figure of ~340k£ per week, which incidentally was exactly what Utd mouthpiece Ogden was reporting earlier.

Now Ogden has changed the story and says its 268k, DailyMail says 280k, etc
Now either Utd negotiated Falcao into taking a hefty paycut, which I really don't believe as that would mean Ed Woody negotiating Jorge Mendes into letting his client take a paycut when joining the BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD lol,

..or they are spinning the figures so that DiMaria and Falcao don't earn more than Rooney PUBLICLY lol.

Either way, it's much more than is reasonable and would be inconceivable for Arsenal.

Or are you talking about 500k € per week RedO?
Because, to avoid confusion it would be good I think if we used per year figures with Euro and per week figures with pounds, and kept that straight.

I'm operating off of information that came out when Liverpool were being linked with a loan move for Falcao. The reports (can't recall exact source or find it... a bad sign) stated that we'd be required and willing to pay the £15-20m loan fee and all of his wages; which for us in England would amount to about £500k/week before taxes. It is very possible that A) these figures were indeed mistranslations and were intended to be in Euros that some lazy person simply stuck a Pound sign in front of, B) that these figures were simply simply dragged out of someone's arse to make for a more interesting article, or C) some combination of the above. It's also possible that United themselves are utilising some 'fuzzy math' to hide the actual wages and fee so as to avoid internal squad issues and/or external investor/fan issues, those this is clearly less likely than the previously mentioned possibilities.

[6unner]

FFS Shrek makes a bloody fortune more than he is worth what is the difference.

[Sri]

'If Arsenal had signed Danny Welbeck in June and Alexis Sanchez on deadline day then a large section of the fanbase, who have clearly never really seen Welbeck play, would be a lot happier than they are today.'

[VendettaRed07]

Last year we signed Ozil in the dying hours and everybody was happy. I feel like if we had signed Welbeck when we signed Sanchez, and Sanchez when we signed welbeck people would be feeling a lot different right now. Just my opinion

[Jay29]

We would've just had people moaning that we haven't signed any world class players and that the Ozil deal was the fluke, in that case.

[Sri]

Conclusion: Gooners will moan either which way

[Jay29]

Football fans in general will moan either way. Transfers have gone from a means to and end to the end itself because the expectation and pressure to spend nowadays is so high.

On deadline day, Hull dished out £9.5mil to sign Abel Hernandez from Palermo, which was a record transfer for them. Their fans got all excited but how many of them will have seen Hernandez play in Serie B last season? Not many, but because it's a record transfer and a large sum of money, for them, has been spent they get all excited.

Nobody's interested in projects and player development now. Could you imagine what the fans' reaction would be if we, needing a striker on deadline day, signed a 22 year old French winger for £11mil that Wenger says he wants to convert to a striker? He'd be lambasted by the fans and slaughtered in the press for not spending £30mil on an established, world class centre forward.

[GenBlizkin]

Still should have gotten Carv, if he kills it this year, someone will pay 37mill, when we could have had him for 23-24

[MJ]

I agree that morale would certainly be much different had the timing of the Sanchez/Welbeck deals been switched but even last season, through all the hysteria and celebrations of signing Özil, rationally speaking, we all knew that we were short a striker and possibly DM.

It lifted our spirits as fans and as a club to have a marquee signing come in at the last possible moment and that may have been a factor in our great first half of the season.

But the point would remain that we had business not yet done in the window. We'd still end up getting to a point where we'd be saying: 'right, I'm thrilled at all the additions we made and bringing in Sanchez was a great last minute move but we still let ourselves down in not bringing in another defender.'

[VendettaRed07]

The only thing I didn't like was sending jenk on loan

I have no problem sending Chambers into the fire. I think he's ready to be the third choice cb. It's just bellerin at rb I'm worried about

But I suppose if we aren't going to use him then why is he here. I think you just have to give youth players a window to break into the first team or else you'll never develop anyone and they'll just spend their career on loan before eventually getting sold.

We should have either brought in a defender or kept one of the two we sent out but it isn't so bad

[6unner]

I actually do not buy into the thought that if we would have switched the transfer times of Alexis an welbeck around automatically changing peoples opinion.
We went into the window knowing we needed to replace the players that were leaving and add a proven CF and DM.

We left the window replacing Sagna. Not replacing TV. Picking up a project in Calum as a replacement for Jenks that has migrated to CB or DM or RB nobody knows. Then picking up Alexis as a RW or CF or LW who knows although seems a well adjusted player. Then when nothing was working a CF we went out and picked up manu's 4th choice CF.

The only way that it would have made a difference in switching times that the Alexis and Welbeck were signed is if Welbleck had come in through the preseason up to now and had him be able to prove that Everyone at manu was wrong including Alex Ferguson. Since none of the ever had faith in him and constantly bringing in someone new to be ahead of him.

I have said before although disappointed that we did not look for someone as a proven CF. I do think that welbs moves right into our #1 CF position. We still left the window without a proven CF, a proven DM and short at CB. Just like we started the window.

[RedMamba]

Spending 51M on forward positions and still our CF position is not sorted, let alone DM and CB. and just stop with welbeck hyping and english core BS, he was clearly an expensive panic buy, would have preferred remy instead. looking for positives in this window is clutching at straws.

Doubters are not all mindless moaners, instead its the apologists who equate spending big with successful window. well we spent north of 80mils this summer and still came out with worse squad than last season. not rocket science, and thats why some moan!

Finally, does anyone still reckon, we will sign WC CF (who we still need), a big DM and a clutch CB (who'd be expected to fill in one of 1st choice pairing by next august)? we will need chelsea-esque 2015 window to sort these issues, which i doubt we are capable of producing with this management. so its gonna be the same crap excuses next summer!

Should have sorted DM and CB this window(instead of forwards) to atleast have a chance of a complete squad by next summer!

[RedMamba]

BTW a 19yo playing 5 games at CB does not make him a CB, let alone a 3rd choice CB, not at Arsenal. Not doubting chambers talents, but with unpredictability of youth and demands of steadiness at centre half, its unfair on the kid.

[MJ]

So to recap: There are NO positives in this window, anyone who attempts to argue that there are is simply an "apologist" or "clutching at straws". Also, despite the fact that Welbeck confirmed that the move had been on for "days" and that we were linked with him for weeks, since he was told he could leave, it was a "panic buy."

And there's no case for being hopeful of Welbeck, we're simply "hyping" him and the British core isn't a long term strategy. There's not even any merit to it. It's just BS.

Loving your reasoning/arguments so far.

And apparently we need a CB, not to fill the role of backup, but to start over one of Kos/Per.

I'd love to borrow a line from John Henry and ask what you're smoking but that's probably a line an apologist would use.

[6unner]

Spending 51M on forward positions and still our CF position is not sorted, let alone DM and CB. and just stop with welbeck hyping and english core BS, he was clearly an expensive panic buy, would have preferred remy instead. looking for positives in this window is clutching at straws.

Doubters are not all mindless moaners, instead its the apologists who equate spending big with successful window. well we spent north of 80mils this summer and still came out with worse squad than last season. not rocket science, and thats why some moan!

Finally, does anyone still reckon, we will sign WC CF (who we still need), a big DM and a clutch CB (who'd be expected to fill in one of 1st choice pairing by next august)? we will need chelsea-esque 2015 window to sort these issues, which i doubt we are capable of producing with this management. so its gonna be the same crap excuses next summer!

Should have sorted DM and CB this window(instead of forwards) to atleast have a chance of a complete squad by next summer!

One at a time.
CB yes I believe that we will end up having to sign a new CB probably to replace Mertz. I think that with Debuchy being much better going forward than he is in defense it is not going to take to long to see this as a weakness that will be exploited by pace.
DM in the traditional sense No we will not get one. I just do not think that Wenger sees it as a necessity in the modern game. At best we should hope for a Khedira type box to box player.
CF Not a chance if we had to many this summer now we have one more it will either work or we will end up waiting for contracts to end.

[MJ]

Signing a young CB with high potential would be advisable regardless of whether or not Mertesacker's pace was exploited (hasn't been in his time here but with Debuchy arriving, so many suddenly think it'll be a serious issue. We'll see)

That young CB should have come now as Per and Kos get older, he'd be able to get plenty of minutes and replace them eventually but for now they have at least another four years in the tank. Defenders, especially ones like Mertesacker who don't rely on pace, aren't the quickest to age.

[6unner]

Yea right after I hit send on the previous post I did realizes that yes it could be Calum that is the CB replacement then we will not need to bring in a starting CB just another backup or two.

As for Per will he last another 4 years without a DM and RB that are not good defensively.

[Sina]

Arsene saving that money and #5 shirt for John Stones
one more to the British core

[MJ]

Yea right after I hit send on the previous post I did realizes that yes it could be Calum that is the CB replacement then we will not need to bring in a starting CB just another backup or two.

As for Per will he last another 4 years without a DM and RB that are not good defensively.

Whether Debuchy is defensively capable enough is its own question. We all know that Arteta's athleticism is on the decline and that a DM is an imperative but that's still no knock on Mertesacker. We needed a capable DM anyway. Changing Per because he'd be exposed by 2/5 defensive-minded players not being up to scratch is obviously not the solution.

And I meant we should have signed another CB in addition to Chambers, someone a bit older but a few years younger than Mertescielny like Manolas. Would have had perfect depth at the back in that case.

[6unner]

Yea right after I hit send on the previous post I did realizes that yes it could be Calum that is the CB replacement then we will not need to bring in a starting CB just another backup or two.

As for Per will he last another 4 years without a DM and RB that are not good defensively.

Whether Debuchy is defensively capable enough is its own question. We all know that Arteta's athleticism is on the decline and that a DM is an imperative but that's still no knock on Mertesacker. We needed a capable DM anyway. Changing Per because he'd be exposed by 2/5 defensive-minded players not being up to scratch is obviously not the solution.

And I meant we should have signed another CB in addition to Chambers, someone a bit older but a few years younger than Mertescielny like Manolas. Would have had perfect depth at the back in that case.

Mark this day in history.
I agree with this statement.

[RedMamba]

So to recap: There are NO positives in this window, anyone who attempts to argue that there are is simply an "apologist" or "clutching at straws". Also, despite the fact that Welbeck confirmed that the move had been on for "days" and that we were linked with him for weeks, since he was told he could leave, it was a "panic buy."

And there's no case for being hopeful of Welbeck, we're simply "hyping" him and the British core isn't a long term strategy. There's not even any merit to it. It's just BS.

Loving your reasoning/arguments so far.

And apparently we need a CB, not to fill the role of backup, but to start over one of Kos/Per.

I'd love to borrow a line from John Henry and ask what you're smoking but that's probably a line an apologist would use.

no need to borrow john henry lines

by next september, merta will be 31, chambers will be 20, majority of young projects don't learn everything in a season, i hope just like you do that merta keeps on and chambers is the real deal CB!

at this point, the guy we want to push down to 2nd choice, giroud, is arguably better than welbeck. ofcourse i hope just like you do that welbeck turns into a sturridge 2.0 but it doesn't always work that way! and i am really looking forward to your scale of lateness for a panic buy!

hope, i am afraid, doesn't cut it if you want and not just hope to challenge for titles.

if our hopes are not fulfilled, which is very likely, then given historical data and experiences, it is safe to come to the conclusion that the positions that were required to be filled in the last 2 years plus CB, will not be filled next year.

however, it is more likely, another quality AM/winger/midget might arrive so we can pretend to be RealMadrid for a week.

and I wud really like to know what goes on in your world next summer if our mutual hopes are not fulfilled!

[MJ]

My hopes weren't met this summer and I, along with many others, were upset and critical about this.

My point wasn't that Wenger is above reproach or scrutiny for his dealings in the market, he must own up fully to whatever decisions he makes/doesn't make.

Ultimately, our judgment is based off of results and it looks like we've been set up on shaky ground.

I'm not arguing that.

but it's nonsense to say that there were no positives this window and that anyone who points them out is an "apologist".

[6unner]

would it be nonsense to say there were no negatives also?

That the entire windows was nothing more than a roll of the dice that we will not know the outcome for a time yet to be determined.

[RedMamba]

ok... there were positives if you are so stuck up on them... but as 6unner pointed out if you roll the dice, worth 80+M at that, you are bound to get some decent players, but it is hard to see 80M worth of improvement in squad.

in life, business and sports, you have to get your priorities in order, and address high priority issues first, especially if you have limited resources. the overall improvement induced by sorting a high priority issue, even with a lesser upgrade, will be higher than sorting a low priority issue with a higher upgrade.

as an analogy, if your car has a problematic brake or engine, and you keep spending on new/better/slicker tyres everytime you have the money, would be deemed as stupidity, lack of planning, mismanagement. it is not a complete waste of resources, but a relative one because you did buy some cool tyres, you did improve something but your other sets were not bad either and the main problem isn't resolved!  

the irony is; the people, who accuse the 'moaners' of wanting the club to spend the money just for the sake of it, themselves resort to money spent excuse to justify poor management.

[Sri]

Arsene saving that money and #5 shirt for John Stones
one more to the British core

Sina

This was the only post I felt like replying to this morning Just tired of the repetitive arguments on certain other topic - can't beat dead horses.

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