Enchanted Forest Borussia Dortmund

Hapless_Hans wrote:no Blue what I'm saying is that I thought he played well WHEN he was used, certainly, in my opinion warranting being used again through his performances, but that then didn't happen.
I'm talking about last season, no idea how it was in his first.
For example when RvP was out and he played behind Rooney.

That's why I say I don't find it to be a 'flop', since he didn't play bad, he just didn't play.
Of course that's semantics, but it is a difference I think.

fyi nothing like that happened. well at least not to the extent it should have happened. When RVP was injured Moyes did 3 things

1. In majority of the games He played welbeck instead rvp ( as the clown rated welbeck quite a lot if we recall) and brought rooney back to his 'free' role a.k.a 'role in the hole' keeping kagawa out most of the time where as in some games he deployed shinji again only on the left (and that only when young stunk so badly on the left).
2. In a couple or more games he did start shinji from the center but then very quickly he altered it by making wlebeck who played on the left to come to the center and once again moving shinji to the left (and that I can tell yaa has got nothing to do with shinji's performance at all, the whole team was playing shite and the only thing moyes could ever think of to change it was to make that move)
3. rvp was injured quite a lot, or rather he preferred to be like that last season more, so he was injured post December as well. so what did moyes do. right he brought Mata and then kagawa was totally shut off.

I am not saying he wasnt played in the no.10 role. He was. But only once in a blue moon. and even after seeing he delivering above average stuff most of the time moyes didnt bother to give it a go on a regular basis. He changed it in the next match and brought in two of his illegitimate sons young and valencia yet again.

there was one game where Mata, Kagawa, and Januzaj played behind Rooney and you played well and won comfortably, probably the one good game under Moyes in 2014, somewhen in February I guess.

But as I said, one game, you play well and win, and then change back to Valencia nd Young for the important matches

hmm maybe my memory is wrong, but I see now there were a string of games you won comfortably in February/March, against mid/lower table teams, when Kagawa was starting alongside Mata.
Would be interesting to see a statistic of points won per game WITH and WITHOUT Kagawa last season, I'm pretty sure it would show Utd were more successful when he was playing.

Hapless_Hans wrote:there was one game where Mata, Kagawa, and Januzaj played behind Rooney and you played well and won comfortably, probably the one good game under Moyes in 2014, somewhen in February I guess.

But as I said, one game, you play well and win, and then change back to Valencia nd Young for the important matches

yep. the game against Newcastle. and in that one too Kagawa was played out of his natural position on the left. Yet He was the orchestrator in that match. The POM even though he didnt make it onto either the score or assist list. He controlled the game in that match. Only cos of him Mata excelled, and its a huge irony that mata has only excelled for us until now when Shinji was playing with him.

So some of these comments I find here in this thread saying Kagawa is not quality and all. he is out of depth to fit at United and all...lol. they havent even seen him playing for us. only looked at the numbers and are coming to conclusions.
what a pity. probably one of the most underrated players of recent past.
You cannot blame a player when every factor upon which his performance will depend turned against him. come on. He is an Asian. yet he adjusted quite nicely to life in England. and He did very well in his first season despite the fact that he was injured he contributed a lot of assists and even scored one of the coolest hat-tricks I have ever scene in a game against Norwich. And just when things started to look bright. it got totally thwarted by a moron who should have never come here in the first place.

Hapless_Hans wrote:hmm maybe my memory is wrong, but I see now there were a string of games you won comfortably in February/March, against mid/lower table teams, when Kagawa was starting alongside Mata.
Would be interesting to see a statistic of points won per game WITH and WITHOUT Kagawa last season, I'm pretty sure it would show Utd were more successful when he was playing.

Yea you are right it was instant improvement to the dross of usual when kagawa was used in a match. Eventhough none of his teammates where on the same wavelength as him, he tried to make things happen by deft quick passes and touches. Its just that the entire team was static, there was no room for a player of kagawas caliber in it unfortunately. So instead of blaming the shite we played, we are blaming the one who is making us to play better. Thats what we did.

Mata thrived under the influence of Shinji. He produced end results in the form of assists and more notably goals something SHinji thanks to what his manager has done to him couldnt. redcafe users were the most critical of him when they saw a player devoid of any sort of confidence and self belief missing goal scoring opportunities and not even bothering to attempt to shoot instead of pondering the reasons they thrashed him and called him not upto the level we need and shet; which sadly is a huge irony since we havent even shown any level whatsoever since SAF's final season. and at the same time they praised mata without realizing that it was kagawa who was making mata work. Yet despite all that low confidence and the stuff he was going through he still managed to perform decently and sometimes admirably when he was called upon.
agreed that towards the end of the last season he gave up giving his everything as he might have then realized he would never make it here despite trying so hard earlier.
its so sad. Because we have really lost a real gem of a player. a player who unfortunately came to us at a wrong time. Now as a Shinji fan all I can do is hope that he will come really good once again.

just 2014 games:

1.1.   loss against Spurs    -  Kagawa doesn't start
11.1. win against Swansea -  Kagawa starts
19.1. loss against Chelsea  -  doesn't start
28.1. win against Cardiff    -  doesn't start
2.2    loss against Stoke    -  doesn't start
9.2.   draw against Fulham -  doesn't start
12.2. draw against Arsenal -  doesn't start
22.2. win against Palace    -  doesn't start
8.3.   win at West Brom     -  doesn't start
16.3. loss to Liverpool       -  doesn't start
22.3. win at West Ham      -  starts
25.3. loss to City              -  doesn't start
29.3. win against Villa        - starts
5.4. win against Newcastle - starts
20.4. loss at Everton         - starts
26.4. win against Norwich   - starts
3.5. loss to Sunderland       - doesn't start
6.5. win against Hull           - starts
11.5. draw at Southhampton -  doesn't start


Pretty obvious not Kagawa was flopping, but Manchester United

He was arguably man of the match in that Swansea game as well, then doesn't start for 8 games

^ thanks man for that stats. hopefully it will change peoples' views a little bit.

I think he started vs Southampton, Hans

Busby Babe wrote:He was arguably man of the match in that Swansea game as well, then doesn't start for 8 games

moyes working his magic.
and right now them plastic fans are asking to bring that man back and fire lvg.