Re: The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread

[Hapless_Hans]

I did not say Courtois is a better goalkeeper than Neuer. Courtois had a better club season than Neuer. Diego Costa had a better club season than Zlatan but does that mean Costa is a better player than Zlatan? Not at all. Stats don't prove that Neuer had a better club season than Courtois,  stats say Loic Perrin was the best CB in the world this year so I do not blindly look at stats to determine which player performed better. One of the main reasons Atletico won the league was because of Courtois...he was clutch as f and won them a lot of points with some near impossible saves and was also as good in the CL until extra time in the final.

I do maintain that Neuer was the best keeper of 2014 when you take into account the World Cup (which should be taken heavily into account) and the 2014-15 club season. But I don't think he deserves to be in the top 3 ahead of Robben.

I have to say, I kind of agree with that. I too thnk Robben is being shorted here, in order to have a German player in the top 3.
It's a silly charade the whole thing, let's be honest.

[Dante]

It's an imperfect basis from the get go , it won't be fair to most .

Unless they decide to reward the specific categories that determine football , it will never be 100% fair.

BOD Forward : x player
BOD Midfielder : y player
BOD Defender : z player
BOD Goalkeeper : t player

i really don't understand why they don't do this. As if it would lessen the whole thing , it would probably make it even more prestigious and glamorous , since more people would actually get what they deserve . When we try to compare apples and oranges on different criteria every now and then , someone is always going to get treated unfairly.

[neuro11]

I did not say Courtois is a better goalkeeper than Neuer. Courtois had a better club season than Neuer. Diego Costa had a better club season than Zlatan but does that mean Costa is a better player than Zlatan? Not at all. Stats don't prove that Neuer had a better club season than Courtois,  stats say Loic Perrin was the best CB in the world this year so I do not blindly look at stats to determine which player performed better. One of the main reasons Atletico won the league was because of Courtois...he was clutch as f and won them a lot of points with some near impossible saves and was also as good in the CL until extra time in the final.

I do maintain that Neuer was the best keeper of 2014 when you take into account the World Cup (which should be taken heavily into account) and the 2014-15 club season. But I don't think he deserves to be in the top 3 ahead of Robben.

these when and which thing... if you believe WC should be taken into account stop using that "when" non sense ...and plainly say Neuer is the best keeper in 2014...

[neuro11]

because there were better players out there. he wasn't even the best GK last season and not the best at the WC either. let alone the 2nd/3rd best player.

He's completely redefined the role of a goalkeeper and his been the best in the world by miles for at least 2 years. pls.

he's a great goalie, one won't be wrong to say he's the top goalie right now....but redefining the role is a bit of a stretch; many goalkeepers have had odd characteristics about them, whether its higiuita's fetish for having the ball at his feet and bringing it forward like a libero, or chilvert and ceni's free kick taking ablities....that said, my understanding of defining a position is when others begin to copy you or adopt your style (whilst being successful at it); it becomes a blueprint for others....and i doubt that's the case with neuer for reasons being, some of his antics such as rushing out have been around for as long as one can remember, depending on the situation the goalie is faced with......great keeper, but redefining the role is certainly a bit of a stretch

well said....though agree he is the best keeper in the world, don think he had done anything to redefine....

[neuro11]

This award is a joke. Arjen has been the best player in the world and by a comfortable margin for atleast 1.5 years. Won Bayern the Pokal and CHL with key goals in the 12-13 season. Best player in the WC.

And this season he has brilliant every single match. Guided Bayern to a domestic double.

What does this guy have to do to be recognized?

Maybe when he retires people gets his value. Or maybe he has to score decisive goals in CHL, League, Cup and WC/Euro Wins with his side to even be nominated for Top 3.

Ronaldo and Messi are the biggest spoonfed couple in the world, indulging in their goal-fest against La Liga Fodder and having political support in FIFA/EUFA and Media to go through every single time.

B D'or has lost his credibility and frankly these 2 have had a monopoly on this award and nobody has a chance

i agree that till these two talents retire probably no one will have a touch on it...but doubt it has lost credibility otherwise people would have stopped bothering it. but surely even you will come and post in Ballon d'or thread every year.....

[neuro11]

.................................................................
So Messi was poor and flopped in every key WC Game. He flopped in the WC Final and was by far worse than Robben or Rodriguez. And Robben carried the worst Netherlands Team in the last 30-40 years to a WC 3rd Place Finish. Robben was brilliant for Bayern in their double.

Messi was injured and did nothing, won 0 trophies and was good only against La Liga Fodder. So he deserves it more because he is a better politician?

that "carrying the worst team" theory is really a very powerful tool in fanboyism

[Harmonica]

Cronaldo ahead of Benzema.

Glad to see Neuer and Messi there deservedly.

[zigra]

It's an imperfect basis from the get go , it won't be fair to most .

Unless they decide to reward the specific categories that determine football , it will never be 100% fair.

BOD Forward : x player
BOD Midfielder : y player
BOD Defender : z player
BOD Goalkeeper : t player

i really don't understand why they don't do this. As if it would lessen the whole thing , it would probably make it even more prestigious and glamorous , since more people would actually get what they deserve . When we try to compare apples and oranges on different criteria every now and then , someone is always going to get treated unfairly.

Because this should be something no one cares about. They should just get rid of this bullshit individual awards instead of making even more of them. The BdO should be some nice bonus for a player, nothing else really. Instead this day it sometimes feels as if there are fans who want their favorite player to win BdO more than they want their team winning a trophy

[rwo power]

Well, as Manuel Neuer pretty much won everything that he could win with club and NT so far (bar the Euro), I think him getting the Ballon d'Or would indeed be a nice bonus

[Footyfan]

.................................................................
So Messi was poor and flopped in every key WC Game. He flopped in the WC Final and was by far worse than Robben or Rodriguez. And Robben carried the worst Netherlands Team in the last 30-40 years to a WC 3rd Place Finish. Robben was brilliant for Bayern in their double.

Messi was injured and did nothing, won 0 trophies and was good only against La Liga Fodder. So he deserves it more because he is a better politician?

that "carrying the worst team" theory is really a very powerful tool in fanboyism

Not really, has to do more about knowledge about the game which is not high among most of the posters.

I never expected us to escape the Group Stage. Freaking Vlaar was our best defender when he was ridiculed by most. Kuyt was playing RWB and Blind who played LWB was playing DM.

De Guzman/Wijnaldum/Fer -> These are all very average players IMO. Sneijder looked well past it and RVP has always been NT Flop.

I never though this team was capable of leaving the group. I liked Depay who is very unrefined, Hunter who is a Top GK but poor technically and Clasie as DM although he is a 60 minute player and can't shield the defense.

Strootman injury was also a big loss. It's no surprise we are 3rd in Euro Qualifications and are struggling to qualify. The team is very poor.

[futbol]

Poor teams can still park the bus which Netherlands did for the most part and that's what got them so far. Going into penalties in the quarters and semis with 0 goals scored in 240 minutes sums it up. What was Robben's contribution exactly in those games? And since Argentina did the same the logical conclusion was that Netherlands-Argentina was the worst game in World Cup history.

Lordy, the World Cup really was low quality when I think about it. Club futbol, fss.

[terrance511]

so, u guys meant

ronaldo, robben, neuer would be much better package?

[Harmonica]

Robben ahead of Messi? Nobody is saying that.

Messi (Golden Ball) eliminated Robben (Bronze Ball) in the World Cup and played much better in that match, Messi has over twice the overall output than Robben this year, and scored the league winning goal (wrongfully disallowed) in the hardest to win league, when Robben's Bayern casually walked Bundeadliga. They are like worlds apart, but I would put Robben ahead of Cronaldo based on World Cup alone.

[Dante]

It's an imperfect basis from the get go , it won't be fair to most .

Unless they decide to reward the specific categories that determine football , it will never be 100% fair.

BOD Forward : x player
BOD Midfielder : y player
BOD Defender : z player
BOD Goalkeeper : t player

i really don't understand why they don't do this. As if it would lessen the whole thing , it would probably make it even more prestigious and glamorous , since more people would actually get what they deserve . When we try to compare apples and oranges on different criteria every now and then , someone is always going to get treated unfairly.

Because this should be something no one cares about. They should just get rid of this bullshit individual awards instead of making even more of them. The BdO should be some nice bonus for a player, nothing else really. Instead this day it sometimes feels as if there are fans who want their favorite player to win BdO more than they want their team winning a trophy

You don't know that. And in any case , if they don't want to make it right , at least don't make it official . Give it back to the journalists only , or change the format again to something more team based , like i suggested earlier. Because when a player like Neuer gets questioned even about his inclusion in the top 3 and that's 5 people out of 10 , then something is really off the mark here.

You can't have half the people say it's right and the other half say it's ridiculous. And there's logic behind this , simply because we compare apples and oranges . Neither Neuer nor Ronaldo should have to compete between each other for the same exact award . Best player? Neither of them can do what the other does , how's the best gonna be picked out of these two , when they can't even challenge themselves going by the same criteria?

Anyway , no reason expanding on this. BOD is what it is now , what ifs and should have beens don't mean anything.

[Valkyrja]

Robben ahead of Messi? Nobody is saying that.

Messi (Golden Ball) eliminated Robben (Bronze Ball) in the World Cup and played much better in that match, Messi has over twice the overall output than Robben this year, and scored the league winning goal (wrongfully disallowed) in the hardest to win league, when Robben's Bayern casually walked Bundeadliga. They are like worlds apart, but I would put Robben ahead of Cronaldo based on World Cup alone.

Dem inferiority complex shows Cristiano's greatness

[M99]

I did not say Courtois is a better goalkeeper than Neuer. Courtois had a better club season than Neuer. Diego Costa had a better club season than Zlatan but does that mean Costa is a better player than Zlatan? Not at all. Stats don't prove that Neuer had a better club season than Courtois,  stats say Loic Perrin was the best CB in the world this year so I do not blindly look at stats to determine which player performed better. One of the main reasons Atletico won the league was because of Courtois...he was clutch as f and won them a lot of points with some near impossible saves and was also as good in the CL until extra time in the final.

I do maintain that Neuer was the best keeper of 2014 when you take into account the World Cup (which should be taken heavily into account) and the 2014-15 club season. But I don't think he deserves to be in the top 3 ahead of Robben.

these when and which thing... if you believe WC should be taken into account stop using that "when" non sense ...and plainly say Neuer is the best keeper in 2014...

If you had some reading comprehension you would understand that I did say Neuer was the best goalkeeper of the year. I just think Robben should be in the top 3.

[Hapless_Hans]

It doesn't really matter anyway.

Ronaldo will win this, and he will smile and cry with his face magically not displaying any wrinkles.

[terrance511]

"They [Messi, Ronaldo and Neuer] deserved it, because they are fantastic players," he told NOS.

"It comes down to a vote, so I can't do anything about it. It's out of my own hands. I had a great year and did everything I could. But there are a lot of players that really show great things."


robben

[Cruijf]

I do admire how humble and classy Robben has become. You can complain about his 'diving' on the pitch but off  it he's certainly a role model.

On topic:

Poor teams can still park the bus which Netherlands did for the most part and that's what got them so far. Going into penalties in the quarters and semis with 0 goals scored in 240 minutes sums it up. What was Robben's contribution exactly in those games? And since Argentina did the same the logical conclusion was that Netherlands-Argentina was the worst game in World Cup history.

Lordy, the World Cup really was low quality when I think about it. Club futbol, fss.

Park the bus? The funny thing is there was not one game where the Dutch parked the bus. Their drab quarter final was all on Costa Rica parking the bus (amazing how they got praise and the Netherlands got criticism ) and the semi final was just two poor teams keeping it tight due to their opponents having one of the best attackers in the world.

The truth is, the Dutch were simply a poor team that were carried by a World Class star and a World Class coach. Nevertheless, Messi carried a poor Argentina just as much as Robben carried a poor Holland so the argument isn't really relevant...

[Footyfan]

I do admire how humble and classy Robben has become. You can complain about his 'diving' on the pitch but off  it he's certainly a role model.

On topic:

Poor teams can still park the bus which Netherlands did for the most part and that's what got them so far. Going into penalties in the quarters and semis with 0 goals scored in 240 minutes sums it up. What was Robben's contribution exactly in those games? And since Argentina did the same the logical conclusion was that Netherlands-Argentina was the worst game in World Cup history.

Lordy, the World Cup really was low quality when I think about it. Club futbol, fss.

Park the bus? The funny thing is there was not one game where the Dutch parked the bus. Their drab quarter final was all on Costa Rica parking the bus (amazing how they got praise and the Netherlands got criticism ) and the semi final was just two poor teams keeping it tight due to their opponents having one of the best attackers in the world.

The truth is, the Dutch were simply a poor team that were carried by a World Class star and a World Class coach. Nevertheless, Messi carried a poor Argentina just as much as Robben carried a poor Holland so the argument isn't really relevant...

If we had a team as good as Argentina we'd be World Champs by now. They had Ottamendi and Garay competing for 2nd Choice CB when both can walk into our team. Zabaleta is a top CB in EPL and Rojo is promising. Our defense is a joke.

Argentina didn't take Tevez, Lamela who would walk into our line-up and possibly start.

A team of Messi, Di Maria, Masch, Aguero, Higuain, Palacio in Attack/Midfield is brilliant IMO.

Ours was a joke of a team IMO. Argentina may not be as good as Germany but if they had an extra-ordinary player they would be World Champs. Just proves how Messi is not at Maradona's level

[Footyfan]

[quote="Valkyrja"]

Robben ahead of Messi? Nobody is saying that.

Messi (Golden Ball) eliminated Robben (Bronze Ball) in the World Cup and played much better in that match, Messi has over twice the overall output than Robben this year, and scored the league winning goal (wrongfully disallowed) in the hardest to win league, when Robben's Bayern casually walked Bundeadliga. They are like worlds apart, but I would put Robben ahead of Cronaldo based on World Cup alone.

New definition of Nobody?

What did Messi do in the Oranje game where he did 0 or in the WC Final or in the WC Quarters. Messi fans and Ronaldo fans are exactly the same. Messi obviously has twice the input in a team build around him against La Liga Fodder because let us face it he is a nobody in key games

He could not win such a solid Argentina team and won 0 with Barca. Not the mark of an elite player IMO.

[Harmonica]

Robben ahead of Messi? Nobody is saying that.

Messi (Golden Ball) eliminated Robben (Bronze Ball) in the World Cup and played much better in that match, Messi has over twice the overall output than Robben this year, and scored the league winning goal (wrongfully disallowed) in the hardest to win league, when Robben's Bayern casually walked Bundeadliga. They are like worlds apart, but I would put Robben ahead of Cronaldo based on World Cup alone.

New definition of Nobody?

What did Messi do in the Oranje game where he did 0 or in the WC Final or in the WC Quarters. Messi fans and Ronaldo fans are exactly the same. Messi obviously has twice the input in a team build around him against La Liga Fodder because let us face it he is a nobody in key games

He could not win such a solid Argentina team and won 0 with Barca. Not the mark of an elite player IMO.

World Cup Semi-final

Messi 10 dribbles, Robben 4.
Messi 2 chances created, Robben 0.
Messi 4 dispossession/turnovers, Robben 7.
Messi 1 tackle, Robben 0.
Messi 2 interceptions, Robben 0.
Messi 1 shot to 0 goals, Robben 2 shots to 0 goals.
Messi scored the first (most important) penalty, Robben second.

Robben ran more I give you that, that's also why Pedro is a better player than Maradona.

[Footyfan]

Robben ahead of Messi? Nobody is saying that.

Messi (Golden Ball) eliminated Robben (Bronze Ball) in the World Cup and played much better in that match, Messi has over twice the overall output than Robben this year, and scored the league winning goal (wrongfully disallowed) in the hardest to win league, when Robben's Bayern casually walked Bundeadliga. They are like worlds apart, but I would put Robben ahead of Cronaldo based on World Cup alone.

New definition of Nobody?

What did Messi do in the Oranje game where he did 0 or in the WC Final or in the WC Quarters. Messi fans and Ronaldo fans are exactly the same. Messi obviously has twice the input in a team build around him against La Liga Fodder because let us face it he is a nobody in key games

He could not win such a solid Argentina team and won 0 with Barca. Not the mark of an elite player IMO.

World Cup Semi-final

Messi 10 dribbles, Robben 4.
Messi 2 chances created, Robben 0.
Messi 4 dispossession/turnovers, Robben 7.
Messi 1 tackle, Robben 0.
Messi 2 interceptions, Robben 0.
Messi 1 shot to 0 goals, Robben 2 shots to 0 goals.
Messi scored the first (most important) penalty, Robben second.

Robben ran more I give you that, that's also why Pedro is a better player than Maradona.

1 - Always Quote you're source.

2 - Your post is completely clueless as both did nothing in that match. Robben ran and tried and Messi walked. Other that both were heavily marked and the match was quite defensive.

Difference is Robben carried a poor team to 3rd place and had great matches in every single match bar the Argentina Match.

Messi did nothing in any Knock-out matches bar 1 okay assist in possibly the Swiss match.

Ohh btw I really don't care about Work-rate of attacking players, unless they don't play football when off the ball and keep standing in which case they turn into a disease IMO. You essentially play football for the 3-4 minutes you have the ball and it' ridiculous. Part of the reason why I thought Messi was really below par in the WC. Otherwise work-rate is one of the least important things in Footballer for an attacker

[MaraVilla]

argentina wouldnt even be in the KO or Finals if it wasnt for Messi and that asssit in the swiss match was crucial!

[Bankz]

Saying messi doesn't deserve the award is like saying mario gotze deserves to win the award....delusional!

[Bankz]

Btw, robben deserves to be there over neuer.

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