Re: The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread

[Bankz]

Btw, robben deserves to be there over neuer.

[neuro11]

posts of this new robbenboy are so much fun to read
surely everyone is enjoying

[FalcaoPunch]

Everyone knows Messi winning the golden ball at the WC was a joke.

[Harmonica]

2014(3.12) in official games

Messi 52 (7pen) goals, 25 assists = directly part of 77 goals (Top 3)
Cronaldo 55 (11pen) goals, 20 assists = directly part of 75 goals (Top 3)

Benzema 33 (1pen) goals, 22 assists = directly part of 55 goals

Müller 29 (6pen) goals, 15 assists = directly part of 44 goals
Neymar 32 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 43 goals
Bale 23 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 42 goals
James 23 (3pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 42 goals
Zlatan 30 (5pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 41 goals

Robben 22 (3pen) goals, 16 assists = directly part of 38 goals
Di Maria 10 (0pen) goals, 28 assists = directly part of 38 goals
Götze 24 (0pen) goals, 13 assists = directly part of 37 goals
Suarez 18 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 37 goals (not shortlisted)

Costa 26 (2pen) goals, 3 assists = directly part of 29 goals
Toure 18 (5pen) goals, 9 assists = directly part of 27 goals
Hazard 15 (7pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 26 goals
Pobga 11 (0pen) goals, 13 assists = directly part of 24 goals

Kroos 8 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 19 goals
Iniesta 4 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 14 goals
Schweinsteiger 6 (0pen) goals, 5 assists = directly part of 11 goals

Defenders

Lahm
Mascherano
Ramos

Goalies

Neuer (Top 3)

"Best ever" Cronaldo still trying to catch "awful" Messi, and Iniesta scored his 4th goal of the year.

[Hapless_Hans]

Here's some expert opinion by a likeable fellow


Montpellier manager Courbis has to laugh when he says he was told Neuer was nominated alongside Messi and Ronaldo.
"So maybe he will get the award. If in 30 years your grandson asks you 'Grandpa, Nuer, Noier, what's his name, was he really better than Messi and Ronaldo?' you'd rather not have to answer that question"

Not as bad though as when then Marseille coach Deschamps called Boateng a 'Scheiss Neger' ('f****ing n***er') in a press conference and got away with it. Where was the UEFA racism inquiry commision then ?!

[Curtinho]

http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

Ronaldo on 55 goals and 19 assists in 55 apps (74 goals directly created).
Messi on 52 goals and 21 assists in 62 apps (73 goals directly created).

Ronaldo outproducing Messi in 7 less games. Beast.

[Cruijf]

I do admire how humble and classy Robben has become. You can complain about his 'diving' on the pitch but off  it he's certainly a role model.

On topic:

Poor teams can still park the bus which Netherlands did for the most part and that's what got them so far. Going into penalties in the quarters and semis with 0 goals scored in 240 minutes sums it up. What was Robben's contribution exactly in those games? And since Argentina did the same the logical conclusion was that Netherlands-Argentina was the worst game in World Cup history.

Lordy, the World Cup really was low quality when I think about it. Club futbol, fss.

Park the bus? The funny thing is there was not one game where the Dutch parked the bus. Their drab quarter final was all on Costa Rica parking the bus (amazing how they got praise and the Netherlands got criticism ) and the semi final was just two poor teams keeping it tight due to their opponents having one of the best attackers in the world.

The truth is, the Dutch were simply a poor team that were carried by a World Class star and a World Class coach. Nevertheless, Messi carried a poor Argentina just as much as Robben carried a poor Holland so the argument isn't really relevant...

If we had a team as good as Argentina we'd be World Champs by now. They had Ottamendi and Garay competing for 2nd Choice CB when both can walk into our team. Zabaleta is a top CB in EPL and Rojo is promising. Our defense is a joke.

Argentina didn't take Tevez, Lamela who would walk into our line-up and possibly start.

A team of Messi, Di Maria, Masch, Aguero, Higuain, Palacio in Attack/Midfield is brilliant IMO.

Ours was a joke of a team IMO. Argentina may not be as good as Germany but if they had an extra-ordinary player they would be World Champs. Just proves how Messi is not at Maradona's level

Yes, Argentina has bigger names. Not sure what exactly that proves.

As a collective team, judging purely from the World Cup, it doesn't take a genius to see that Argentina was quite simply below par. Without Messi they would have almost certainly went out in the group stage and even if they had made it through they would've lost in the R16. Argentina was as big of a joke as Holland, and just as with Holland the only reason they were not complete laughing stocks was because they had a World Class player carrying them.

[Zealous]

http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

Ronaldo on 55 goals and 19 assists in 55 apps (74 goals directly created).
Messi on 52 goals and 21 assists in 62 apps (73 goals directly created).

Ronaldo outproducing Messi in 7 less games. Beast.

RIP in peace Jiopsi

@Hans

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

Once again Bayern's real MVP (Robben) is ignored in favour of a less deserving teammate. Last year it was the fraud Ribery and this year it's a keeper doing his best Victor Valdes impression.

[Valkyrja]

http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

Ronaldo on 55 goals and 19 assists in 55 apps (74 goals directly created).
Messi on 52 goals and 21 assists in 62 apps (73 goals directly created).

Ronaldo outproducing Messi in 7 less games. Beast.

RIP in peace Jiopsi

@Hans

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

Once again Bayern's real MVP (Robben) is ignored in favour of a less deserving teammate. Last year it was the fraud Ribery and this year it's a keeper doing his best Victor Valdes impression.

I've been saying this for months. Courtois was the best GK of 2014

[ronalessi]

[Freeza]

http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

Ronaldo on 55 goals and 19 assists in 55 apps (74 goals directly created).
Messi on 52 goals and 21 assists in 62 apps (73 goals directly created).

Ronaldo outproducing Messi in 7 less games. Beast.

RIP in peace Jiopsi

@Hans

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

Once again Bayern's real MVP (Robben) is ignored in favour of a less deserving teammate. Last year it was the fraud Ribery and this year it's a keeper doing his best Victor Valdes impression.

Forgetting wide assist where Messi is getting stats for missing shots etc.

[rwo power]

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

But would he have Manuel Neuer's save percentage, clean sheets and passing accuracy? Neuer is far above Courtois in each of these criteria. And you can't really say that Chelsea is so much worse than Bayern.

By the way, interesting result at Squawka when comparing all goalies of the top 5 leagues with more than 12 matches: http://tinyurl.com/kfx98rn
Yann Sommer

[Valkyrja]

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

But would he have Manuel Neuer's save percentage, clean sheets and passing accuracy? Neuer is far above Courtois in each of these criteria. And you can't really say that Chelsea is so much worse than Bayern.

By the way, interesting result at Squawka when comparing all goalies of the top 5 leagues with more than 12 matches: http://tinyurl.com/kfx98rn
Yann Sommer

I would like to see Neuer's save percentage, clean sheets and passing accuracy in the later stages of the UCL.

[Freeza]

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

But would he have Manuel Neuer's save percentage, clean sheets and passing accuracy? Neuer is far above Courtois in each of these criteria. And you can't really say that Chelsea is so much worse than Bayern.

By the way, interesting result at Squawka when comparing all goalies of the top 5 leagues with more than 12 matches: http://tinyurl.com/kfx98rn
Yann Sommer

Did you factor in wide assisted mental jedi saves?

[rwo power]

You can check the data here at whoscored.com: http://www.whoscored.com/Players/13754/History/Manuel-Neuer

Here you can get the clean sheets: http://www.transfermarkt.de/manuel-neuer/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/17259

And save percentage etc I unfortunately only have for the Bundesliga atm: http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/clubs/fc-bayern-muenchen/spieler.php?player=28359

[rwo power]

Did you factor in wide assisted mental jedi saves?

Well, Yann Sommer had one against Freiburg when he made Admir Mehmedi sky his penalty so high that it went in hot pursuit of a certain Ramos penalty

[Valkyrja]

You can check the data here at whoscored.com: http://www.whoscored.com/Players/13754/History/Manuel-Neuer

Here you can get the clean sheets: http://www.transfermarkt.de/manuel-neuer/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/17259

And save percentage etc I unfortunately only have for the Bundesliga atm: http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/clubs/fc-bayern-muenchen/spieler.php?player=28359

No no, the save percentage and cleansheets in the later stages of UCL 13-14.

[rwo power]

Well, you can count the clean sheets at tm.de. I'm atm a bit busy, I'm afraid.

[Valkyrja]

Well, you can count the clean sheets at tm.de. I'm atm a bit busy, I'm afraid.

Thank you

[Freeza]

No one is asking the right questions here ffs. What would Neuer's be like after era adjustment?

[Zealous]

Courbis is 100% correct, it's a joke that Neuer is in the top 3 and he's only there because of media hype. If Courtois was German and played for Bayern he'd have all of Neuer's medals too lol

But would he have Manuel Neuer's save percentage, clean sheets and passing accuracy? Neuer is far above Courtois in each of these criteria. And you can't really say that Chelsea is so much worse than Bayern.

These criteria are useless because Courtois played for Atleti and Belgium last season, like I said if Courtois and Neuer switched teams Bayern still win their trophies although I'm not sure if Atleti would have still won theirs.

Courtois actually helped his team win a legitimate league competition while having to stop CR/Messi and co. Somehow I don't think Max Kruse keeps Neuer up at night. The Bundesliga is a joke competition right now.

So your "criteria" are a moot point, those numbers would change if Courtois was in Neuer's position. (Pass accuracy stat for a GK )

But the above is neither here nor there. In a world where Ronaldo/Messi/Robben exist then a GK should not be on the shortlist.

[sportsczy]

Under that logic... i'm confident that Madrid would have competed for everything last year too if we had Messi or Ibra as opposed to Ronaldo. So i don't understand your point.

[rwo power]

@Zealous

You know, normally I would say "Everybody who has eyes to see can see that Manuel Neuer is by far the best goalkeeper on the planet right now", but as there are obviously quite some people who can't see, I was trying to add some hard data, too.

[futbol]

Neuer is the best GK in the world but his performances in 2014 don't really warrant being named among the 3 best footballers in the world other than forcing a German player into the list based on Germany winning the World Cup. Effectively he conceded 5 goals in the CL semis, didn't have to make a single save in the World Cup final (Argentina indeed had 0 shots on target) and Brazil in the semi final had their first shot on target when the scoreline was already 5-0. Sweeping up against Algeria was his highlight moment in the entire competition. Not sure that warrants a top 3 place in the Ballon d'Or rankings, Casillas certainly did more in 2010 when he saved a penalty late in the game against Paraguay when it was still 0-0 in the quarter final which would have almost certainly knocked Spain out of the competition as well as his 1 on 1 save vs. Robben in the final. So while Neuer is certainly the best and most complete goalkeeper in the world he was still not majorly decisive in 2014. Bayern certainly walk Bundi regardless of Neuer, in the CL he conceded 5 goals in the semi final and in the World Cup he performed well, his highlight being the Algeria game, but other than that not really groundbreaking stuff with little (pretty much nothing) to do in the semi-final and final.

Compare to Kahn's influence in 2002 in a shitty Germany team where he really single-handedly kept Germany in almost every game until the final. THAT is the sort of performance from a goalkeeper that warrants a Ballon d'Or shortlist nomination.

[rwo power]

Well, the CL Semis were 2 matches. But his performances in the Bundesliga, DFB-Pokal and the other matches was exemplary.

If you want to single out matches with non-performances, why don't you look at CR7 in the World Cup matches, especially in the match against Germany in the World Cup (his freekick against Philipp Lahm was a true screamer), or in the CL Final? I mean, I really remember him embarassingly strutting about like he scored the match winner when he only scored a penalty for the 4:1 in the very last last minute of the match, while he was actually very pale throughout.

[Valkyrja]

Neuer should have been sent off in the WC final too.

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