Re: The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club II

by Pip Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:27 pm

Harmonica, what happened to that other dribble Messi made in the second half?

by Valkyrja Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:04 pm

Jiopsi is in decline Laughing

by Valkyrja Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:09 pm

Fußball wrote:Tbf even most Madrid fans accept Messi as the superior player in general. Of course GL isn't representative but pretty much every Madrid supporter here calls Messi the better player as far as I can see, even the likes of Valk and FennecFox7 who are big Ronaldo supporters. I have the feeling it's usually Manchester United fans who obsess over Ronado the most. Mainly because they are shit now and associate their peak times in the past with Ronaldo aka nostalgia. They had a poll not so long ago on RedCafe if they'd take Ronaldo or Messi for current United. Result was 43 % Ronaldo and 15 % Messi. Some of the arguments were the typical cliché Premface redneck "something something pace something something Messi in the EPL would struggle something something more physical" type of arguments. Like this:

Ronaldo, we need pace, he's quicker than Messi.
Also, Messi's best form has always been in tikitaka sides

Ronaldo because you just know he could come in and basically do what he's doing right now for Madrid because he's already done it here.

Messi - Whilst exciting he's even being linked with the Premier League, for me there's always that question mark with him in how would he do in the Premier League, personally I don't think he'd be as influential as he is at Barcelona and I don't think he'd even reach the same heights Ronaldo did here.

Obviously Ronaldo - already knows the league, more physical than Messi, better in the air, arguably faster.

Here: http://www.redcafe.net/threads/who-will-be-best-fit-for-current-united-messi-or-ronaldo.400116/

Maybe Redcafe isn't fully representative either although I feel such a big, English speaking community of an English club does somewhat reflect the fanbase pretty nicely. Certainly better than a niche forum like GL.

I don't have anything against people who say that Messi is better than Ronaldo because he is. But when I see people debating whether Cristiano is better than the likes of Ibra, Ribery, Robben Iniesta, Suarez and so on, that's what pisses me off, since he is much better than them. I've even seen Barcaforum users saying that Isco is better than Ronaldo. I was like WTF

by Winter is Coming Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:37 pm

Valkyrja wrote:I don't have anything against people who say that Messi is better than Ronaldo because he is. But when I see people debating whether Cristiano is better than the likes of Ibra, Ribery, Robben Iniesta, Suarez and so on, that's what pisses me off, since he is much better than them. I've even seen Barcaforum users saying that Isco is better than Ronaldo. I was like WTF

This depends tho. He's superior to those guys in his goals output, which only Messi rivals him in, however do you think his all around game is better then say Suarez/Robben? Is he a better play-maker then Iniesta?

I think when people make these comparison they are looking at an overall picture, Ronaldo overall game play hasn't been impressive as others. Not to mention for Messi/CR it does get easy as they've been playing for years in a team that caters to their strength with insane talent, you don't know how the likes of Suarez/Robben etc would do if they had the same luxuries. We already saw Suarez tie with the most goals scored in PL and he missed about 6-8 games due to the ban or he could've hit 40 in the PL last season with a team that catered to him and the talent wasn't even all that in Pool compared to Barca/Madrid.

by neuro11 Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:15 pm

jibers wrote:
neuro11 wrote:Its difficult for me to choose which version of Messi i like more. He now a days does a lot of things in the mid and attacking thrid other than scoring goals. He can entertain you with many different ways. However that Messi was pure joy to watch for his speed and constant dribbling. I like the goals of 08-09 versions, those are fantastic but now his assists are more beautiful than hos goals.

Stp deceiving yourself. Messi does the same pass every game, diagonals to fbs or wingers. You're telling me that those passes are more beautiful than his 'goal of the century'? Yea okay bud.

no, i din mean it. i said, in 08-09 his goals were beautiful and now his assists are beautiful. i wanted to compare his present assists against his present goals. his assists right now are far more enjoybale than his present goals.
In 08-09 his goals were fantastic because those included mesmerizing runs, dribbling a number of defenders, skills, techniques - everything. But now a days his goals are no where near those. Many of the goals are simple looking. The reason is clear. look at that first gif vs Eibar, he reached near the box, did not loose the ball, had space yet he chose to cross it for Neymar. If Neymar would have scored i would say that a beautiful assist. In 08-09 he would have never done it. he would rather miss it but would go for a goal and if scored would be a great goal.

by FennecFox7 Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:22 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:I don't have anything against people who say that Messi is better than Ronaldo because he is. But when I see people debating whether Cristiano is better than the likes of Ibra, Ribery, Robben Iniesta, Suarez and so on, that's what pisses me off, since he is much better than them. I've even seen Barcaforum users saying that Isco is better than Ronaldo. I was like WTF

This depends tho. He's superior to those guys in his goals output, which only Messi rivals him in, however do you think his all around game is better then say Suarez/Robben? Is he a better play-maker then Iniesta?

I think when people make these comparison they are looking at an overall picture, Ronaldo overall game play hasn't been impressive as others. Not to mention for Messi/CR it does get easy as they've been playing for years in a team that caters to their strength with insane talent, you don't know how the likes of Suarez/Robben etc would do if they had the same luxuries. We already saw Suarez tie with the most goals scored in PL and he missed about 6-8 games due to the ban or he could've hit 40 in the PL last season with a team that catered to him and the talent wasn't even all that in Pool compared to Barca/Madrid.

I strongly disagree. Ronaldo's overall game is excellent especially for a CF. His first touch has absolutely come leaps and bounds this season, he can hold up the ball, he has strength and aerial presence, and while he isn't iniesta with his playmaking, his passing is accurate and precise.
Someone who doesn't have overall game is bale. There is a huge gap in technical and passing ability from CR and bale, and that's how you can spot the difference.

He has tons of assists and as an actual footy player, believe me, getting the final pass is not always easy. His key passing statistic is over the roof and while his dribbles per game is not at suarez or messis level, it is still very good. He also does not turn over the ball much for a CF, and he actually passes more this season.

The problem is that he is constantly compared to messi whos MILES better then him when it comes to dribbling, passing, and overall play. Like WAY better. People need to be objective and understand no one is at messis level.

The only problem I have against him is his diving. He is clearly stronger then 99% of fullbacks in la liga and most centerbacks, he even threw eric bailly to the ground cleanly like he was a fly Laughing

P.s. Before people say key passes don't count for shit, these are the same people who use that exact stat for their own players and also use the assist stat to measure their favorite players. So, no, it does matter.

ANYWAYS, sorry to derail the thread, lets talk about messi now

by LeBéninois Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:37 pm

I totally agree with the post above.

by Pseudo Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:01 pm

Honestly I can't deny Ronaldo's goal scoring but If I were to create a super team with some of the best players around, would I need ronaldo?

What is he going to offer me?

Hazard Aguero Messi

James

Schweinsteiger Matic

Alaba Ramos Boateng Lahm

Neuer

by Ganso Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:51 pm

Stoichkov about CR vs Messi: "It frustrates CR that CR is always being compared to Messi while Messi is being compared to Maradona, Pele and Cruyff"

by FennecFox7 Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:25 am

aguero over cr :bow:

if you think ronaldo has average vision, check out sergio "all about myself" and tunnel vision aguero

by neuro11 Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:51 am

Pseudo wrote:Honestly I can't deny Ronaldo's goal scoring but If I were to create a super team with some of the best players around, would I need ronaldo?

What is he going to offer me?

Hazard Aguero Messi

James

Schweinsteiger Matic

Alaba Ramos Boateng Lahm

Neuer

thats really debatable.......
i mean i personally would prefer to put someone like Cr just becauase he brings the goal threat and defenders would be damn scared. look at the difference made when SUarez came. before we had pedro,tello,alexis etc all good players but not enough to down the level of confidence of opponent defenders. For me thats very important...

by FennecFox7 Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:29 pm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2399504-barcelona-transfer-news-lionel-messi-warned-against-exit-amid-ongoing-rumours

Messi to mourinho hmm

I wanna see it

by jibers Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:33 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2399504-barcelona-transfer-news-lionel-messi-warned-against-exit-amid-ongoing-rumours

Messi to mourinho I wanna see it

Messi would be wise not to go to a Mourinho team. The man is a minimalist tactically. Put Hazard as the centre of a team that has a manager that favours attacking as the crux of his tactical philosophy and watch him shine. Messi will become frustrated when he is having to run for 90 minutes and get 14 touches.

by Pip Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:48 pm

Pippo wrote:Harmonica, what happened to that other dribble Messi made in the second half?

I found it from somewhere else. Harmonica seems to be slacking with the quality of his work. hmm

Spoiler:

by Pseudo Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:01 pm

Honestly he's better now than he was in 2011. His decision making especially.

by FennecFox7 Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:27 am

jibers wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2399504-barcelona-transfer-news-lionel-messi-warned-against-exit-amid-ongoing-rumours

Messi to mourinho I wanna see it

Messi would be wise not to go to a Mourinho team. The man is a minimalist tactically. Put Hazard as the centre of a team that has a manager that favours attacking as the crux of his tactical philosophy and watch him shine. Messi will become frustrated when he is having to run for 90 minutes and get 14 touches.

Agreed.
He needs to go to man u.

No seriously. Van Gaal would perfect him.

by futbol Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:13 am

He has become soft these days tbh. Gifting penalties to Nerman and letting Nerman and Rakitic take a freekick in the last 2 games. Dictatoressi. Sad

by Winter is Coming Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:30 am

^No worries he's only grooming Nerman to take over the dictatorship once he leaves Proud

by Mr_Puyol Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 am

Forgive me Messi for thinking you were finished. :bow:

by Harmonica Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:33 am

by Harmonica Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:01 pm

On 5 games against big teams in 2015 (3xAtletico, 2xManC), Messi has dribbled 51 players or 10.2 per game, season average 5.3 per game against all teams, the best non Messi average 09-14 is about 2.5 per game. hmm

by RED Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:23 pm

Greatest of all time.

Toyed with City last night.

Was a pleasure to watch.

by Valkyrja Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:42 pm

That pass to Alba was unreal.

by futbol Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:31 pm

Did you rethink your opinion that Özil is a better passer, Valk? hmm

by jibers Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:12 pm

Fußball wrote:Did you rethink your opinion that Özil is a better passer, Valk?

The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club II - Page 6 MSFXk2a

by neuro11 Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:17 am

that Alba pass is...really unreal!!!
credit goes to Rakitic as well for the goal. moment ago he was on the floor due to a tackle near the Barcelona box, then he quickly recovered and participated in the counter. as someone wrote in the report, it looked like Barca was in a goal deficiency not M.city.

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