GAME OF THRONES - PART 5 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

Think it was my worst scene in the entire series. Those screams... and the way she clutched that wooden piece Davos gave till the end.


Hope Stannis realises that he has ended the Baratheon bloodline.

Arya's ark has been boring as fck this season


ffs that ending scene was the part i was waiting the most for after i read the books, and it didn't disappoint (it saved this meh episode tbh)

Yeah, Arya's story has been a little boring. I like the dude that's training her but the set up has been going on for too long.

And I kind of liked that Stannis went through with it. I remember how a while back the book readers were going on and on about how awesome he was when up to that point he was shown as a power hungry religious fanatic in the show. It even looked like they were going to show his more noble/badass side when he defeated the wildling army. And then he burns his only daughter alive! Still a power hungry religious fanatic.

There's something I don't understand. How was Stannis able to completely overwhelm the wildling army but then gets his ass handed to him by "20 good men"? I get that there was a storm and the mercenaries left but is there anything else I'm missing?

Nah that was sloppy writing. 20 men somehow entered the camp 'because they know the land better than anyone else', then they set fire to the camps and escaped without a single person noticing. For someone who is the best war general in Westeros, Stannis couldn't even defend his camp properly.

Freeza wrote:

RealGunner wrote:Nah I hope Stannis dies in the show. Looking forward to Brienne the beauty to smash him up.

Would be an awful show if you had your choice tbf. Everyone living happily ever after. Eating ice-cream and reading stories about flowers.

This is the best post in the entire thread tbf

RealGunner wrote:

Freeza wrote:My head is fine. I seem to be one of the few enjoying every episode

The torment some of you go through on a weekly basis when characters that's had like 10 minutes of screen time through 5 seasons die amuses me

Well, only on here I have seen people having no problem with rape scenes or burning kids alive tbh.

Whole internet wants Stannis to die, but you seem to be in full support of him after what he did

Does this put you off the show? It actually makes me incessantly restless waiting for the next episode.

The whole internet has a huge justice boner. Are you not tired of every single movie and show shoving the same "good always beats evil no matter how bad or powerful evil is" schtick down your thread at every instant. This is the one show that bucks the trend and I love it. The one show that brings a modicum of rationality and realism to the silver screen.

When compared to good actually defeating evil, in reality, it is far more likely that evil defeats good and rewrites history to make itself good. Otherwise you would never see long-term oppressive regimes.

Getting back to the episode itself, this was the first gut-wrenching scene in GOT for me (besides Lord Joffrey's death ).

Man, I really hope Dany dies soon, winning with dragons is so lame. It's like having Messi on your team and acting all self-righteous. F*ck right off!

There are no viable characters left to support bar Littlefinger. Ramsay is entertaining but is in no way suited for the Iron Throne, Jaime's lost all his spine, Tyrion is an emo loser, Jorah Mormont is a sob story, Jon Snow is too preoccupied with the White Walkers, Night's King is bad-ass but too unrealistic for him to sit on the Iron Throne, the Tyrells (Margaery especially) are annoying and Tommen is useless and boring.

Honestly, I would probably go for Jon Snow even though I really don't like him. His storyline has always been interesting and he seems level headed enough to deserve it. Or maybe even Prince Doran, it would be absolutely hilarious for a pacifist and chill dude like him to actually win this drama filled gorefest.

Anyway, clearly the best show on television and my all-time favourite. Thanks D&D and GRRM!

Again book readers getting bashed, show apologists like Freeza it is you who need to get head out of your asses. They are going for shock value more and more and people like you are helping it by supporting every move the writers do just to make yourself feel superior to book readers. And ummm Stannis never ever locked up Shireen in the show. Don't know where the hell that came from. This is completely show canon and there is no mention on Stannis locking her up: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Shireen_Baratheon

Here's D&D talking about Stannis post-episode.

Once Stannis makes a decision, he never changes his minds. Its why he's a strong commander. And its his weakness, but hes defined by his will-the only way is forward.

Oh really? He never changes his decisions.

"Shireen is my goddamn daughter. Don't burn her."
*burns Shireen 2 eps later"

season 3 "Davos you traitor its time for you to die"
Meslisandre: No don't kill him
Stannis: Okay

The difference.

Spoiler:

We do not want a show where everything is all fine and dandy. D&D likes playing favorites. ASOIAF is a story of morally grey characters but D&D does not do that. Tyrion does some really dark stuff in the books and all of that has been cut because D&D love him and want him to be portrayed as a golden hearted hero. Meanwhile they said on a season 2 interview they really dislike Stannis so that is why he is this villain they made him out to be. All the likable scenes he was getting this season was just to raise shock value.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/38znsb/spoilers_allstannis_character_assassination_thread/

I said before I hate book elitists who nitpick every single deviation. I liked a lot of show changes like Hound vs Brienne, Tywin/Arya, Robert/Cersei conversation and I dislike the poor and inconsistent writing that plagued this season. Twenty "good men" destroys the best commander in Westeros. Stannis who survived from eating leather and rats with a small army during the rebellion (this has been established a lot in the show) burns his own daughter because he is low on supplies in the middle of a snowstorm. Stannis who never changes his decision changes his decision. Sansa who went from naive girl to someone who manipulated emotions and saved Littlefinger's ass reverts back to being a victim. Does not matter whether you personally dislike Shireen and Sansa, that is still poor writing. I dislike the Sand Snakes yet I can see they also suffered from poor writing. I love Cersei but am I crying seeing her lick water of the ground? I loved Grenn and Pyp and they died last season whereas they survived in the book but that made sense. It was also good writing, it showed how much damage the Wildlings did, killing of Jon's friends and why the Nights Watch hates the fact that they are now allied with them. Edd called out Jon on this "They killed Grenn and Pyp" and you could see how Jon screamed at the Wildling woman say he will never forget his dead. Poor writing is poor writing, so show apologists stop raging on book readers when they call out the show for that.

Also this was in character for Stannis because he locked up his daughter before and killed Renly. First off he never locked up Shireen. As for Renly, that situation is hardly comparable. Renly named himself King without any basis or justification. The other options Stannis had were

1) Accept his younger brother as king whereas he is the rightful king
2) Let himself be killed by Renly

M99 wrote:Also this was in character for Stannis because he locked up his daughter before and killed Renly. First off he never locked up Shireen. As for Renly, that situation is hardly comparable. Renly named himself King without any basis or justification. The other options Stannis had were

1) Accept his younger brother as king whereas he is the rightful king
2) Let himself be killed by Renly

And now that the god is established in the series universe. How would his army not have died? I can't see how they'd survive. Sacrifizing his daughter to save his entire army.
I have not a single idea of what happens in the book. I had no problem with Stannis' actions towards his daughter, and thought it was a choice that fit the character he had, which was never sympathetic. Yeah I know he's great and all in the books, and he's you favorite etc. etc. etc. But I am talking from series only.
The only problem I had with that scene was the way it was set-up, I would've liked a more realistic sabotage from Ramsey and his crew. It felt lazy and like they lacked time to make it legit.

Also stop calling us apologists. You're such an arrogant prick right now. The only one that can be an apologist is someone who actually knows of both and actually gives a shit about it. I loved last nights episode. Was it perfect? No, not close. But I still loved it. If everything has to be perfect to love it, then excuse me, I don't wanna live in that world.

The decision he made was to keep moving forward, not to burn or not burn Shireen. Stannis will keep moving forward, and eventually sit on the Iron Throne, only to be killed by Dany as the ultimate winner.

One of the things I liked most about Draznak's pit was that they showed that Drogon is not invincible. It looked like he was in real danger of taking way too many spears, so while in a decade or so they may be the ultimate war machine right now I'm not sure just how useful he would be in a war. And he's the biggest one.

When Aegon the conqueror conquered Westeros the first time around his dragons were over 100 years old.

Great episode, as all of you I was heartbroken by Shireen's death, but you could see it coming from some episodes. Staniss wants to win at whichever cost, and now it looked like take winterfell or lose...
Yes, the books don't take this route, but this is not the books.

I also enjoyed the pit's scene. I was wondering how would they do the assassination plot vs. Dany in the show and it was in a good way. Can't understand Hazard do scrub role in the show, in the books it made more sense and he really was the boss of the harpies. Cool that he finnally died. Meereen's arc is so different form the books... mostly in a good way, but I'm still not a fan of Danny who is 90% confirmed to be the winner of this in the end...

Hazard

Freeza wrote:

M99 wrote:Also this was in character for Stannis because he locked up his daughter before and killed Renly. First off he never locked up Shireen. As for Renly, that situation is hardly comparable. Renly named himself King without any basis or justification. The other options Stannis had were

1) Accept his younger brother as king whereas he is the rightful king
2) Let himself be killed by Renly

And now that the god is established in the series universe. How would his army not have died? I can't see how they'd survive. Sacrifizing his daughter to save his entire army.
I have not a single idea of what happens in the book. I had no problem with Stannis' actions towards his daughter, and thought it was a choice that fit the character he had, which was never sympathetic. Yeah I know he's great and all in the books, and he's you favorite etc. etc. etc. But I am talking from series only.
The only problem I had with that scene was the way it was set-up, I would've liked a more realistic sabotage from Ramsey and his crew. It felt lazy and like they lacked time to make it legit.

Also stop calling us apologists. You're such an arrogant prick right now. The only one that can be an apologist is someone who actually knows of both and actually gives a shit about it. I loved last nights episode. Was it perfect? No, not close. But I still loved it. If everything has to be perfect to love it, then excuse me, I don't wanna live in that world.

I'm a prick says the guy who told readers to take their head out of their asses because they complained about poor writing. Understand this, I would have no problem with Stannis burning Shireen if it was well written. The arc was not well written at all just how Sansa getting raped was not. Best commander in Westeros undone by 20 men. Burns his daughter because supplies are low, he is supposed to be resilient as fck, that's how he survived Storm's End and that actually also happened on the show's lore. Writers themselves say Stannis is a character that never ever changes his decisions but that's what he keeps doing.

I liked the episode. Shireen's burning was a powerful scene even though the writing that led to moment was very poor. Dany+Drogon you really could not ask for more. But it was probably the worst ep 9 the show did so far. Maybe I just have high standards. Season 1 was Ned dying. Season 2 was Blackwater. Season 3 Red Wedding. Season 4 Nights Watch vs Wildlings. The Dorne scenes, "twenty good men", Stannis's u turn pulled the episode down. Ep 8 was absolutely perfect, here's hoping next episode is like that again.

Stannis sacricing Shireen for a greater good is NOT out of character. He was willing to sacrifice Gendry because of King's Blood and we know Stannis is not a hypocrite. None us would have the heart to do it but Stannis is different, he's driven by his duty as a king and a king must do everything for the realm. However because Stannis absolutely loved Shireen he was against it for a long time until his march to Winterfell where his army is trapped and starving which is when he was forced in this decision.

free_cat wrote:Great episode, as all of you I was heartbroken by Shireen's death, but you could see it coming from some episodes. Staniss wants to win at whichever cost, and now it looked like take winterfell or lose...
Yes, the books don't take this route, but this is not the books.

I also enjoyed the pit's scene. I was wondering how would they do the assassination plot vs. Dany in the show and it was in a good way. Can't understand Hazard do scrub role in the show, in the books it made more sense and he really was the boss of the harpies. Cool that he finnally died. Meereen's arc is so different form the books... mostly in a good way, but I'm still not a fan of Danny who is 90% confirmed to be the winner of this in the end...

Very much agreed however Hazard was not the Harpy in ADWD either but that's for the other thread.

I think both sides in this argument have made legit points . From a show point of view , from the books point of view , from people who both followed the character on screen and also read about the character in the books .

The conclusion is that Stannis is a POS , although this goes without diminishing the traits that make his character .

He still remains resilient as fk , because to sacrifice his only child to make his goal stay alive , no matter the personal cost , well talk about will . I think he also stays in character , in killing kin to realise his duty . However , how they went with it , i have to agree with M99 , it wasn't the best way to do it. I cannot understand how 20 good fkn men can do this , not to Stannis' army. I just can't , that was pretty lame by D & D .

I also can't accept how he even wanted Selyse and Shireen with him on the march to Winterfell . I am biased here , but seriously , a commander like him surely understands they shouldn't even be there. Purely from a strategist's POV , Selyse and Shireen are but a burden in this and are simply numbers in logistics , logistics that don't account to anything positive towards his goal . Stannis is a proven strategist and battle commander , he wouldn't never and didn't actually do this . There's literaly no reason for them to be there .

But D&D obviously made it that Stannis wanted them with him , for no valid reason whatsoever , but did it in order for Shireen to burn. That choice was BS for Stannis the character and the building towards it wasn't really well made.

WHATEVER THOUGH , it was a powerfull scene that provoked strong feelings , with that in mind , i think it kinda makes sense that Stannis would do it , to prove beyond doubt that his will to fullfil his duty to be the King is unparallaled , unbroken and won't stop at anything to achieve this . Given his past actions , it makes sense . But again , there are obvious flaws throughout this proccess . In the end , despite hating to see Shireen suffer such a fate , it was a great moment of the episode and the series overall . I loved ep 9 tbh , hell i love almost all of GOT eps this season too.

Something last , Stannis isn't religious at all , let alone religiously fanatic lol . He still doesn't give two shits about R'hllor , show or books . All he does is because he believes it will help him win the Throne , nothing more nothing less.

Kinda surprised people think of him like a religious fanatic really. Not once he has talked about his love for R'hllor , you can't even make a case for him to be religious , let alone fanatic about it. The burnings and all serve a higher purpose , there's literaly nothing more to it . Stannis neither enjoys this , he doesn't approve of it , he doesn't care if Ralor gets his sacrifices .

Stannis cares about fullfiling his duty and that's to sit on that sad throne. Do you think it's worth it?? What he has given up all this time , the cost he has to pay to even be there near Winterfell ? I don't think so and even Stannis might come to think it wasn't worth it , but he has NO choice. He will either sit on the Iron Throne , or simply die in the attempt .

All the talk about him being a religious POS and what not hold no substance , just the POS part does . Still however , there are very few men , if literaly no one else, who can be what Stannis is . Stannis could be the hero nobody deserves . A hero saves them all , good men , innocent , scumbags and villains alike , and a hero is a hero because he is willing to do this for them anyway and pay the ultimate sacrifices in order to do so . Sounds like Stannis to me. Obviously Stannis doesn't even remotely thinks of himself like that , nor he does what he does for such reasons , but it still works the same in the end. Nobody will say he is a hero and maybe he isn't , but he actually is willing to suffer anything to sit on the Throne and do what's right . No matter the case , nobody will ever praise him or cherish him for that .

He's being portrayed as a villain and he surely has done despicable actions to verify this easily , but his end game and his character , all point out towards the best choice of a king westeros could hope for . A cruel man he is , but a man willing to lose everything in order to do his duty , that is the kind of person that has to be King , if Westeros has any hope left .

(note that i do not support him , neither have i in the past. this is just a part of my opinion on Stannis )

So you aren't religious if you make sacrifices to a god in order to get something in return? I believe a bunch of religious fanatics believe they'll get in heaven if they follow the god. Thus following his to gain something for themselves. I've never considered him to be a religious fanatic, but more of a fatatic using religion. So it's pretty much semantics at this point.

Also he's not really potrayed as a villain. He's portrayed as a character with major flaws that has become desperate because he lusts for the throne.
Wouldn't say there's a lot of villains in this show. Maybe Joffrey was one. Don't know about anything else. Maybe that's just another semantic argument though.

Freeza wrote:So you aren't religious if you make sacrifices to a god in order to get something in return? I believe a bunch of religious fanatics believe they'll get in heaven if they follow the god. Thus following his to gain something for themselves. I've never considered him to be a religious fanatic, but more of a fatatic using religion. So it's pretty much semantics at this point.

Also he's not really potrayed as a villain. He's portrayed as a character with major flaws that has become desperate because he lusts for the throne.
Wouldn't say there's a lot of villains in this show. Maybe Joffrey was one. Don't know about anything else. Maybe that's just another semantic argument though.

I think Stannis has never admitted that he believes in the Lord of Light. He has admitted in believing Melisandre's powers though and her powers are real... or atleast most of them.

Did anyone notice Tyrion getting a painful flashback from the whole quick vs big?

https://i.imgur.com/ppk3wFF.jpg

Stannis showed that he's willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to be king. I'm not buying this BS that he's doing it because it's his duty and he'd rather retire to the countryside and raise goats or whatever. He wants that power and he just burned his daughter alive to continue playing the game of thrones. I mean we're talking about monarchies here. There's no rightful or wrongful kings. The king is the winner. That's all.

Dante wrote:He still remains resilient as fk , because to sacrifice his only child

...and that's where I had a little chuckle. Dat God.

What if Westeros is Heaven?
What if Stannis is God?
What if GRRM, D&D are Jehovah's witnesses?

What if Mel is just a republican trying to get rid of all the royal families? Whenever she meets someone with royal blood she seems so eager to burn