Transfer Rumours V6

Mate, you are REALLY reading too much into it. Also, I'm not sure why you refuse to give Lucho more credit for the treble. Rotating is not easy and still with making tough decision to bench key players week in week out he ended up having the biggest win percentage in history He went too far with benching both Neymar and Messi at the same time but you learn from mistakes, don't you? Again, his rotating may have looked crazy at times (as I said everyone was bashing him for that) but he completely knew what he was doing and from bashing him we moved to worshipping him.

Also, you don't know if this signings list is true. MD reported earlier today that Lucho basically asked to sign 2 players this summer: Aleix Vidal and Arda Turan. There's nothing about Ibbora or Parejo (probably just bollocks).

The only thing I'm concerned about are his performances against Madrid. In the first game we were totally outplayed and in the second we won only because their players were burned out and ours were fresh (again, thanks to his rotations). I hope he sorts them out because IMO they're the only team that could trash us.

Someone like Iborra would actually make sense. You know, a cheap-ish, low profile, La Liga experienced depth signing who would be backup for the starting pair Rakitic-Iniesta. What the hell are we going to do with € 35M+ Arda once Pogba comes next season? Pogba, Arda, Iniesta, Rakitic, Rafinha is way too much, even if Iniesta declines.

Alex Song (27) has agreed personal terms with West Ham and is now awaiting a medical. A fee is yet to be agreed with Barcelona. [daily mail]

So the managing comitee can't buy but they can sell? I have no idea what's going on there tbh.

i don't blame them though we should sell song for anything at this point lmao
the guy openly said he doesn't want to be here and his value goes lower and lower as the years go by

Fußball wrote:Someone like Iborra would actually make sense. You know, a cheap-ish, low profile, La Liga experienced depth signing who would be backup for the starting pair Rakitic-Iniesta. What the hell are we going to do with € 35M+ Arda once Pogba comes next season? Pogba, Arda, Iniesta, Rakitic, Rafinha is way too much, even if Iniesta declines.

You want a back-up to Iniesta-Raki who's a poor passer of the ball, and even worse under pressure. A injury to Iniesta and a MF of Raki-Iborra starting a crunch game next season.

The Arda hate is REAL.

People don't want Arda, and yet can't come up with a better solution.

Laporta in radio SER: "Braida's and Soler's meeting with Juve's directors was a catastrophe. They embarrased themselves"

"Turan is a smoke screen to cover for the Pogba failure"

*bleep* yea Laporta

Shots fired.

Bartomeu says that Pogba isn't mature enough to come to Barcelona and that Luis Enrique wants another player.

Half a year chasing Pogba for nothing and now he acts like they were never interested. What a pos

Laporta will destroy him

Who are these fodder players? Iborra and Turan

I should double check im not in the transfer rumour thread for Swansea or Sporting Braga.

My man talking about Arda runs off the ball? In 10 years time I personally will still have more pace than Arda

Can understand the Iborra point, not every player you buy has to be a star, you need your Keitas, Pedros and Adrianos as to make it to the end of the season fit and without squad disharmony.

Turan would be another Hleb. They are basically the same players.

migeru ‏@migerucb 3 min.
Barça are offering €20m for Gerson according to reports in Brazil. Meanwhile, Rafinha's contract expires next summer and no one cares

LMAO.

The Franchise wrote:Who are these fodder players? Iborra and Turan

I should double check im not in the transfer rumour thread for Swansea or Sporting Braga.

My man talking about Arda runs off the ball? In 10 years time I personally will still have more pace than Arda

Arda a fodder player? C'mon now.

Since when is pace such a requisite to be a Barca player? Such reasoning is what I expect from a premface, who values pace over everything, and then brandishes him a shit player if he doesn't have it.
Arda's pace is comparable to Iniesta and Raki. And last I checked they are both doing fine. But if there was a piece of play that broke down because of Arda's lack of pace I'd like to be reminded of it.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Can understand the Iborra point, not every player you buy has to be a star, you need your Keitas, Pedros and Adrianos as to make it to the end of the season fit and without squad disharmony.

Yeh, there's nothing wrong with having low-profile guys. But when your first-choice back-up is very a limited one, then there's a prob. We have already seen the drop in quality when the Pedro's and Adriano's need to fill in. And we've seen Barca as a whole suffers. And don't compare Keita to Iborra, the former was actually a capable Mf and good passer. Even then, we had the prime Xavi/Iniesta beside him to compensate any drop off in quality. In case of an injury situation, I don't think a declining Iniesta/Rakitic can make up for shortcomings of a player like Iborra.
I thought Barca should be making the most of Messi's prime years. From hereon, every season counts, and a capable MF reinforcement for next season is necessary. Iborra's not that.

So far I've only read half-arsed attempts at a counter-argument.
You guys must up your game, because so far the lone woman is winning the battle here..

À bout de souffle wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Who are these fodder players? Iborra and Turan

I should double check im not in the transfer rumour thread for Swansea or Sporting Braga.

My man talking about Arda runs off the ball? In 10 years time I personally will still have more pace than Arda

Arda a fodder player? C'mon now.

Since when is pace such a requisite to be a Barca player? Such reasoning is what I expect from a premface, who values pace over everything, and then brandishes him a shit player if he doesn't have it.
Arda's pace is comparable to Iniesta and Raki. And last I checked they are both doing fine. But if there was a piece of play that broke down because of Arda's lack of pace I'd like to be reminded of it.

Fodder is an exaggeration. But if he played for an Europa League team, he wouldnt look out of place nor would he seem to good for that level.

If he played for a midtable team in the PL or La Liga, he wouldnt seem too good for the team either.

He is quite an ordinary player who just gives his all.

Pace is a pre-requiste for any player in the game you want to play as a forward against the best defenders in the world. Its nothing to do with premface or whatever, you just need to be realistic...if you play with Barcelona and Messi, Iniesta and co, you want to be able to reach the passes they make behind the defence.

Rakitic and Iniesta? Imagine them playing in the forwad line..oh yeah, we already seen that for 2 or 3 years and it didnt work.

I think that's unfair Dani, his technique and skill level isn't ordinary. He's a very good player IMO and one of Atleti's better players.

I do think he's not what Barca need and already expressed that but i don't believe he's ordinary or Europa League standard.

I dont think he is one of their better players any more, 2 seasons ago I would agree, but today no. They have moved on and they are fielding players with beter all around abilities.

Like I said previously, in the most important games he sometimes doesnt start and even if he does, is one of the first to be subbed.

I think the difference between Europa level and CL isnt that different, so it shouldnt be taken as an insult.

I can name some Europa players who I 100% think are better.

Fair enough, i have made it clear i don't watch La Liga anymore much so my opinion is based on what i saw when i did.

The Franchise wrote:

Fodder is an exaggeration. But if he played for an Europa League team, he wouldnt look out of place nor would he seem to good for that level.

If he played for a midtable team in the PL or La Liga, he wouldnt seem too good for the team either.

He is quite an ordinary player who just gives his all.

Pace is a pre-requiste for any player in the game you want to play as a forward against the best defenders in the world. Its nothing to do with premface or whatever, you just need to be realistic...if you play with Barcelona and Messi, Iniesta and co, you want to be able to reach the passes they make behind the defence.

Rakitic and Iniesta? Imagine them playing in the forwad line..oh yeah, we already seen that for 2 or 3 years and it didnt work.

You don't rate his dribbling, his ability to protect the ball under pressure, and his passing? Are all those traits ordinary?
On that note, name me your top 3 La Liga dribblers not from Barca/RM.

Again the pace argument, Iniesta didn't fail as a forward because of his lack of pace, but his lack of finishing. Yes, he did abandon his position from time to time (Iniesta LW dynamic as futbol calls it), but when he held his position, he went past players and found himself one-one with the keeper several times only to be let down by his poor finishing. Besides, when facing a bunker defense for 90, pace is of l'il factor. There you need the ability to beat your man.
Secondly, Arda's not just a forward but would also be a MF option for us.

The Franchise wrote:I dont think he is one of their better players any more, 2 seasons ago I would agree, but today no. They have moved on and they are fielding players with beter all around abilities.

Like I said previously, in the most important games he sometimes doesnt start and even if he does, is one of the first to be subbed.

I think the difference between Europa level and CL isnt that different, so it shouldnt be taken as an insult.

I can name some Europa players who I 100% think are better.

Tbf, Simeone's system favors size, athleticism and directness. Not really conducive for a skillful player to shine.

You don't rate his dribbling, his ability to protect the ball under pressure, and his passing? Are all those traits ordinary?
On that note, name me your top 3 La Liga dribblers not from Barca/RM.

Again the pace argument, Iniesta didn't fail as a forward because of his lack of pace, but his lack of finishing. Yes, he did abandon his position from time to time (Iniesta LW dynamic as futbol calls it), but when he held his position, he went past players and found himself one-one with the keeper several times only to be let down by his poor finishing. Besides, when facing a bunker defense for 90, pace is of l'il factor. There you need the ability to beat your man.
Secondly, Arda's not just a forward but would also be a MF option for us.

He does all 3 of those well, I didnt say he should go play amatuer football.

Top 3 dribblers? I dunno..never thought about it, Arda could be in there I suppose. La Liga coaches have almost changed the game in terms of the emphasis for compactness of the lines, making dribbling quite difficult and favouring the passing game where the ball is moved quickly. So you have to be a truly special dribbler to do it. I struggle to think of any non Madrid or Barca players who I would consider an outstanding dribbler.

Anway, if im forced to name 3 they would be Fegouli at Valencia, Muniain at Bilbao and one of Arda, Nolito or Vela. But none of these names do I consider "great" dribblers really.

I hope this doesnt lead to you throwing out some useless stats which wont tell me anything.

More importantly, why is this relevant? I never said every skill he has is ordinary...I said as an overall player, he is quite ordinary. There are many players I would rather have, there are many players at Barcelona already I would rather have (Rafinha for example).

And I fundamentally disagree with you regarding Iniesta. He rarely even got into positions to finish, because he was so often not in the areas of the pitch or making the movements a winger makes. He came towards the ball constantly and Keita would make runs behind the defence. This is a big problem, because a midfielders runs into the box are easier to defend than a man running behind the rightback, or between the rightback and right centerback where they cant see him.

Arda a midfielder for us? Why? I would rather have Rafinha, who isnt perfect himself but has some similar attributes and wont cost 40m or whatever.

À bout de souffle wrote:
Tbf, Simeone's system favors size, athleticism and directness. Not really conducive for a skillful player to shine.  

That somewhere between a myth and an excuse. Yes, when Atletico are clinging to a lead, they want to defend it...but they field Greazmann, they have used Saul, they had used Villa and C-Rod in the past, they going to use Vietto..these guys are no more athletic than Arda.

Arda Turan and any Atletico forward thinking player, are in fact aided by his system in some ways. Because when they counter attack so directly, the forward players get alot more space to use.

Please sign him Barcelona. Don't want him anywhere near our club. He's basically the slower version of Willian yet hipster fans think he's the second coming of Iniesta for some bizarre reason.

The Franchise wrote:
More importantly, why is this relevant? I never said every skill he has is ordinary...I said as an overall player, he is quite ordinary. There are many players I would rather have, there are many players at Barcelona already I would rather have (Rafinha for example).

It is relevant because you called him ordinary. Because ordinary players don't have three very good skills in the bag. By your logic Busi outside his smart positioning and distribution can be deemed ordinary as he lacks pace and is physically & aerially weak. And most players can be made to look ordinary by taking out their stand-out skills.
Rafinha is not half the player Arda is. He's not even close to the player Thiago was @ similar age. And when Thiago being the more talented and experienced is finding it hard to make a mark @ the top level (CL), you think Rafinha would be a capable injury cover against the likes of Madrid/Bayern etc? Are you willing to take the risk? Or you're just banking on messi taking out half of the opp. team on his own. That seems to be Lucho's master tactics anyway.
Rafinha's not ready to be our first choice back-up for a season, not yet. I'm be surprised even if he makes it at Barca long term.

Arda a midfielder for us? Why? I would rather have Rafinha, who isnt perfect himself but has some similar attributes and wont cost 40m or whatever.

see above

And I fundamentally disagree with you regarding Iniesta. He rarely even got into positions to finish, because he was so often not in the areas of the pitch or making the movements a winger makes. He came towards the ball constantly and Keita would make runs behind the defence. This is a big problem, because a midfielders runs into the box are easier to defend than a man running behind the rightback, or between the rightback and right centerback where they cant see him.
.

Obv. Iniesta isn't a traditional WF who makes runs behind the defence. But it barely works against a bunker anyway. Precisely why forwards/wingers like CR7/Bale are so impotent when space is at a premium. And they just hopelessly resort to shooting long-range with no avail. For a Barca forward who more often than not gets stifled, I'd value the ability to beat a man over pace. Iniesta @ LW is similar to Messi @ RW when he cuts in, dribbles past players/plays one-twos, and slots it past the keeper, except Iniesta shoots straight at the keeper or squares it to a nobody (false 9 effect). That's basically the trademark LW Iniesta that I remember. Now Arda is Iniesta-lite, but there is Suarez(proper 9) in the box to alleviate the problem of lack of finishing.

The Franchise wrote:

À bout de souffle wrote:
Tbf, Simeone's system favors size, athleticism and directness. Not really conducive for a skillful player to shine.  

That somewhere between a myth and an excuse. Yes, when Atletico are clinging to a lead, they want to defend it...but they field Greazmann, they have used Saul, they had used Villa and C-Rod in the past, they going to use Vietto..these guys are no more athletic than Arda.

Arda Turan and any Atletico forward thinking player, are in fact aided by his system in some ways. Because when they counter attack so directly, the forward players get alot more space to use.

But none of the aforementioned players are of similar profile to Arda. He's a ball dominant player, and player's of his ilk only shine when they see more of it. Even the best player in the world when devoid of the ball looks underwhelming, which is why the counterattacking system of ARG didn't always suit messi. Arda would thrive better in a possession-oriented attack.

À bout de souffle wrote:Yeh, there's nothing wrong with having low-profile guys. But when your first-choice back-up is very a limited one, then there's a prob. We have already seen the drop in quality when the Pedro's and Adriano's need to fill in. And we've seen Barca as a whole suffers. And don't compare Keita to Iborra, the former was actually a capable Mf and good passer. Even then, we had the prime Xavi/Iniesta beside him to compensate any drop off in quality. In case of an injury situation, I don't think a declining Iniesta/Rakitic can make up for shortcomings of a player like Iborra.
I thought Barca should be making the most of Messi's prime years. From hereon, every season counts, and a capable MF reinforcement for next season is necessary. Iborra's not that.

So far I've only read half-arsed attempts at a counter-argument.
You guys must up your game, because so far the lone woman is winning the battle here..

You bring in a WC midfielder and you basically shut the door on all the la masia players that could fill that role. La masia excells at producing midfielders mostly, so I would just keep that slot open and test out youth products that are ready to make the jump. If you have to bring in anyone at all, it should be a rotation player.