Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

rwo power wrote:Well, there are always

DuringTheWar wrote:At least 75% should vote, out of which at least 60% should vote to stay in, or we leave. How about that?

Well, that's because it is usual to have a change needing a certain number of votes, not the other way round, because that is what the people originally had and which was fine for years.

The majority of people who originally voted in favour of the EEC and lived throughout the "fine" years voted to leave the EU.

DuringTheWar wrote:The majority of people who originally voted in favour of the EEC and lived throughout the "fine" years voted to leave the EU.

Well, the UK did go from the "sick man of Europe" to the 5th largest economy while being member of the evil EEC/EU, so it can't have been that bad.

Many of the problems that came up for the "little man" were not caused by the EU, but by Thatcher and the following UK governments, though, even though it was claimed otherwise.

RealGunner wrote:I think it will be debated in the parliament anyways. It has to be discussed before invoking article 50.

This is up for discussion. There are some lawyers claiming the executive doesn't need parliamentary approval. That being said, I think she would try to get parliament to approve it, I don't think any politician would want the weight of that decision solely on her shoulders.

rwo power wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:The majority of people who originally voted in favour of the EEC and lived throughout the "fine" years voted to leave the EU.

Well, the UK did go from the "sick man of Europe" to the 5th largest economy while being member of the evil EEC/EU, so it can't have been that bad.

Many of the problems that came up for the "little man" were not caused by the EU, but by Thatcher and the following UK governments, though, even though it was claimed otherwise.

Precisely. The UK joined in 1973, here is how it did compared to it's European peers.

https://i.imgur.com/arfZWRX.png

There is clearly a before and after which has been very positive to the UK.

That's the end of David Cameron. His best moments at the office.

One thing I'd never take away from Davo C was his banter.

Man I wish US politics was more like that. What great banter

UK politics is GOAT

It is indeed

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/753213391318061057

George Osborne sacked. Theresa May told him she didn't want him in her Cabinet

Boris Johnson is foreign secretary in May's #Cabinet

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2016/07/tuesday-dopeness-201.jpg

You couldn't possibly make this shit up

Osborne is the prick that abolished student grants but looked to be about to start making moves internationally going to China and the USA and reassuring other countries. Not a good time to sack him, even if it's justified.

Boris Johnson's appointment as foreign secretary - Verdict from the Twitter commentariat: http://tinyurl.com/h9zf3to

Liam *bleep* Fox to head a new department for international trade. Unbelievable

May sure does have a sense of humour.

Actually I think she doesn't only have a sense of humour, but her choice is highly ingenious.

By putting Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox in charge of foreign affairs, Brexit and trade, she forces them to actually deal with the mess they caused.

I bet she hopes that they will realise that they are not able to deliver even a tiny part of what they promised. That way they will be the culprits who didn't manage to make good on what they announced full-bodiedly and either will completely lose face when everything goes south, or they will have to admit that they need the EU after all.

I think this would be poetic justice in a way.

rwo power wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:The majority of people who originally voted in favour of the EEC and lived throughout the "fine" years voted to leave the EU.

Well, the UK did go from the "sick man of Europe" to the 5th largest economy while being member of the evil EEC/EU, so it can't have been that bad.

Many of the problems that came up for the "little man" were not caused by the EU, but by Thatcher and the following UK governments, though, even though it was claimed otherwise.

I've come to learn that when you preface your comments with "Well,", what proceeds has absolutely nothing to do with the original point.
So I'll reiterate it, if it is right to be prejudiced in favour of the status quo, it follows logically that it is right to be prejudice in favour of those who created the status quo, of whom the vast majority voted to change the status quo. What Thatcher has to do with this i don't know.
What prejudice towards the status quo stems from is FUD

Sorry, I use "well" too often in any case ^^

As for your comment... At least in Germany it is the rule that in decision-making procedures the so-called "Status-Quo-Klausel" (status quo rule) is followed, which means that the former legal status continues until it is changed by a decision.

Oh, and if you want to implement a constitutional change where you'd need a 2/3 majority, you can't use your reversed voting scheme as you can't implement a change before it was voted for by the majority. So if you'd put the change first and you'd ask for at least 2/3 of the voters to vote for the status quo or the change would be valid, you never had the 2/3 majority for the change in the first place, so that way would be clearly unlawful.

[BTW, I will split the gun stuff and added it to the gun thread.]

I just learned that if the UK doesn't want to have EEA access or bilateral trade agreements, it can't just default to WTO rules as this is not as easy as thought either.

Can the UK just go ahead and trade under WTO terms as soon as it leaves the EU?

No. In practice, the UK will have to detach itself from the EU and regularise its position within the WTO before it can sign its own trade agreements, including with the EU itself. As Roberto Azevêdo, the WTO’s director-general, said recently, there is no precedent for a WTO member extricating itself from an economic union while inside the organisation. The process will not be easy and will likely take years before the UK’s WTO position is settled, not least because all other member states will have to agree.

Source: http://nicosiamoneynews.com/2016/07/12/brexit-britains-looming-wto-challenge/


Absolutely interesting recording of a talk between some British government committee guys and some economics guys where the problems the UK will face are clearly outlined:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/edd13153-7ed7-48b3-9643-472e6be0462e

Subject: The UK’s future economic relationship with the European Union

Witnesses: Hosuk Lee-Makiyama, Director, European Centre for International Political Economy, Shanker Singham, Director of Economic Policy and Prosperity Studies, Legatum Institute, and Richard North, Author

Question: Why is Cher of all f*cking people chiming in with her political two cents? The last time Cher was relevant, England were without a World Cup

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-18/nigel-farage-caught-out-after-lbc-caller-trick-question/7638256



Listen to the video

*g* Pwned!

Last i saw nigel lives in england not a foreign country. When he goes to europe to work it is in the eu assembley which has english as an official language so i dont see what point the caller was trying to make. If nigel lived in belgium then the caller would make sense.

Theresa May has said the UK will not begin official negotiations on leaving the EU this year as she held talks with Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel.
Speaking in Berlin, the PM said securing a "sensible and orderly departure" from the EU would take time.
But she insisted the UK would not "walk away" from Europe and wanted to retain the "closest economic links".
Mrs Merkel said the two sides desired to get the "best result for Britain" but urged more clarity on timing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36841066?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120&link_location=live-reporting-story

I'm really pulling for Britain to get the same deal they had before they decided to leave, to be honest /s

Only if they lose the right to vote, particularly their veto in the process ^^