how you rate messi's national career?

how you rate messi's national career?

excellent?
very good?
good?
mediocre?
poor?
very poor?

Unfinished but as of now, excellent. Performed well in multiple tournaments, reached multiple finals and is the all time leading goal scorer for Argentina.

Individually excellent. He's the top scorer for NT with some amazing all time forward talent. He's performed in every big tournament.

I'd say his managers did a disservice to him for never actually having any sort of offensive game plan other than depending on him, which made it severely difficult for him to win his nation trophies specially when faced against well oiled machines like Germany/Chile.

I'd say making it to a WC final and 3 Copa finals is itself amazing given the pressure of the burden of the whole offense being on him to deliver singlehandedly. Which for the most part he showed up but it wasn't enough because football is a team game.

It's a pity because he did have talented teammates to help him if only some manager could have utilized the talent better.

Best ever. No one has dominated three major NT-tournaments with three other "name" players failing him each time. Not Maradona, not Zidane, not Pele.

Good enough to cement his place as the greatest of all time. I'm only saying "good enough" because he never really did get the win.

It would have been a lot easier to bring home that 1st place in just one tournament which would have done it, but his team mates have let him down.

I think over the course of history it might be forgotten how Messi has dominated these tournaments only to come up short and I think in the long run that may hurt him a bit, but anyone who is watching football presently should clearly be able to see how fantastic he has been in almost all of these tournaments (nobody was even in the same realm as him this last Copa America). He's been unfortunate to run into a great Chile side that are a better "team" than Argentina even if not as talented individually, and I think everybody can see that Messi is not to blame here for Argentina coming up short. Instead, supposed world class talents like Di Maria, Aguero, Higuain etc will have to carry that burden and in reality, it should hurt their legacy as players. Not to mention the completely average coaches that have managed him. Maradona in WC 2010

As I said though, Messi himself? He's done enough. His NT career combined with a stellar club career? The GOAT, it's not even a discussion.

So far? Excellent.

But I am very sure he's not hanging his boots as of yet...

He can't be.

I'm with Sushi on this like I stated in the other thread. Messi WILL play in Russia.

Agree 100% with Hames, he needs to play in Russia though.

6.5/10, nothing special. More or less the minimum you would expect of someone of his talent level.

Didn't manage a single goal in 2010 and went out in the quarter final in humiliating fashion. Grabbed a couple of assists. Özil-like performance at best.
Didn't manage a single goal in 2011 in the Copa America at home soil and went out in the quarter final. Total choke job throughout the tournament.
Played well in 2014 in the group stages against pub teams like Iran (actually didn't even play that well but at least managed to be decisive) but then got carried in the knockout stages by Argentina's defense against better teams while choking a 1 on 1 with Neuer in the final.
Scored 1 penalty goal in the entire 2015 Copa.
Choked in the 2016 Mickey Mouse Copa final. Played well against pub teams like the USA.


His best performances for Argentina were in the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup.

Does anyone even remember a single iconic Messi performance in a crucial World Cup or Copa America game, compareable to his memorable performances with Barca against Manchester City or Bayern for example? No? Me neither. Can't wait for Harmonica to throw me some "made 1242 dribbles against the Netherlands on the sidelines" stats in my face, in what can be describes as one of the dullest 0-0 games in World Cup history where nothing happened offensively.

Mental midget and system player. No Barca, no trophies. Not even a Mickey Mouse Copa.

You are basing your evaluation on expectations though.

Nobody else who was the best player in a team who got to 3 finals and was the top scorer in his countries history would be considered a 6.5 worthy career.

Very good. If he wasnt Messi we would all love his NT career. The problem is expectations that come with his ridiculous level. No doubt he was Argentina's best player by a huuuuuuge margin this Copa. Last years Copa he was good but not as dominant. At WC 2014 he was a beast and their best player but it was close with Mascherano and Di Maria. Things like that.

Im pretty sure we all think that Mascherano is amazing for Argnetina. Messi is clearly better, but since he is Messi we dont appreciate it.

sadly, we only recognize or appreciate some player if he has retired or die

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:You are basing your evaluation on expectations though.

Nobody else who was the best player in a team who got to 3 finals and was the top scorer in his countries history would be considered a 6.5 worthy career.

Topscorer doesn't mean anything. I still don't know why goals in friendlies actually count. Fifa should change that nonsense. In 3 Copa Americas and 2 World Cups, Messi has scored 10 goals (half of them in this Mickey Mouse Copa) in 28 games. That's all that counts and it's nothing special. Even less special if you look at the opponents: 3 against Panama, 1 penalty, 2 against Nigeria, 1 against Iran, 1 against Bosnia, 1 against Venezuela, 1 against USA. Not even one top 20 national team in there.

"Best player and 3 finals" is also misleading. Argentina were easily going to the finals even without Messi. They've actually beaten Chile (the best team of the tournament) without him in the group stages, so please don't tell me Messi "carried" Argentina to the final past USA and Venezuela.

In 2014, when push came to shove, Messi clearly wasn't the best player in the knockout stages. Mascherano doesn't rip his anus against Robben and there is no WC final for Argentina. Romero doesn't hold 2 penalties against Netherlands and there is no WC final for Argentina. What was Messi's contribution in that WC semi-final?

6.5/10 is a fair ranking. He wasn't bad but he also wasn't very good or even exceptional, except in some moments far and between against teams that Argentina should be beating anyway.

How can you win everything possible in football? Its just impossible. Every record, every title, every individual award its impossible. If Messi did it would be just ridiculous. Football God doesnt give you everything

Considering this he had excellent career. Only few players managed to play 4 finals. We can easily say with Messi you are guaranteed to play in final
But to win the final you need a better team. Argentina is just individuals not a team. Chile had better team and played possession football against Argentina most of the game, while Argentina could not make 3 pass in a row. Germany the same

Good at best or very good to be polite. This year's Copa(marketing Copa) is probably the best he's played in an Argentina shirt.

People probably still think he was the best player at the last world cup Or even 2010 for that matter.

I think he'll return for Russia because he still hasn't done enough to actually "retire" from international football.

His career with his NT is far from complete and far from good. He needs to do more, way more.

He has a much bigger case for 2014 than he does for 2010 tbh.

2010 he wasn't that good at all, 2014 he actually has a case for where as 2010 he doesn't at all.

futbol wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:You are basing your evaluation on expectations though.

Nobody else who was the best player in a team who got to 3 finals and was the top scorer in his countries history would be considered a 6.5 worthy career.

Topscorer doesn't mean anything. I still don't know why goals in friendlies actually count. Fifa should change that nonsense. In 3 Copa Americas and 2 World Cups, Messi has scored 10 goals (half of them in this Mickey Mouse Copa) in 28 games. That's all that counts and it's nothing special. Even less special if you look at the opponents: 3 against Panama, 1 penalty, 2 against Nigeria, 1 against Iran, 1 against Bosnia, 1 against Venezuela, 1 against USA. Not even one top 20 national team in there.

"Best player and 3 finals" is also misleading. Argentina were easily going to the finals even without Messi. They've actually beaten Chile (the best team of the tournament) without him in the group stages, so please don't tell me Messi "carried" Argentina to the final past USA and Venezuela.

In 2014, when push came to shove, Messi clearly wasn't the best player in the knockout stages. Mascherano doesn't rip his anus against Robben and there is no WC final for Argentina. Romero doesn't hold 2 penalties against Netherlands and there is no WC final for Argentina. What was Messi's contribution in that WC semi-final?

6.5/10 is a fair ranking. He wasn't bad but he also wasn't very good or even exceptional, except in some moments far and between against teams that Argentina should be beating anyway.

Top scorer doesn't mean anything at all?

I bet it would if he wasn't Messi though, and btw pretty much every top scorer in history of anything scored goals against crap it's how it is deal with it. Also i don't know about this tournament but anyone with sense would know they wouldn't get to the WC final without him, if you think they would there's really no point furthering this discussion tbh.

The fact you are trying to pick apart a player with the top scorer in the history of Argentina who has everyone knows has a massively successful history when it comes to star players and 3 finals basically backs up my point.

Nobody else would have that on their resume and we'd be sitting here debating wether their career has been good or not, it's the same with Guardiola who has had a wonderful management career but is a fraud according to this forum because he doesn't live up to your ridiculous GOAT level expectations for him every year.

He didn't play well at all in 2014. I don't believe he has a case there either. I remember many people were shocked he got the golden ball and there were many players who performed better than him.

He was the best player in the group stages. Knockout rounds he was good, not great. Mascherano was Argentina's best player overall in the World Cup.

futbol wrote: In 3 Copa Americas and 2 World Cups, Messi has scored 10 goals (half of them in this Mickey Mouse Copa) in 28 games. That's all that counts and it's nothing special. Even less special if you look at the opponents: 3 against Panama, 1 penalty, 2 against Nigeria, 1 against Iran, 1 against Bosnia, 1 against Venezuela, 1 against USA. Not even one top 20 national team in there.
.

Disgraceful stats padding.

futbol please stop posting bs and watch the final match. His dribbling was in the same level against M.City last season. And it was not even M.City it was park the bus team like A.Madrid. It makes it even more impressive


not a single back pass in 90 minutes, always dribbled forward and won many fouls. Have you ever seen such a dominant dribbler? in a final match? a few shoots at goal came from messi play, nothing else from others.

You can say dribbling is not enough, ok was there any passing option? or shooting option?
How can a player dribble whole team and get a shooting chance? is it even possible? He did what a human could do and if Argentina had a little team chemistry they would create a single chance for Messi to shoot. It didnt happen, why is it Messi's fault? Would Maradona get that shooting chance? and how?

The Demon of Carthage wrote:He didn't play well at all in 2014. I don't believe he has a case there either. I remember many people were shocked he got the golden ball and there were many players who performed better than him.

I bet you are one of those people who think Robben was fantastic when he did *bleep* all in the KOs though.

Good, nothing great.  Messi hasn't made Argentina play any better than before he came.  They have been performing at the same level since Maradonna retired. They've always been hyped as a very talented squad that invariably chokes in big tournaments at different stages.

You can bet whatever you want, Messi wasn't the best player in 2014 and he didn't deserve the golden ball.