The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

by Hapless_Hans Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:01 pm

How times have changed.

Football formations seem to be subject to fashion just as well as clothing and music.

Because I can see no other reason why all kinds of teams with no particular tactical astuteness, both in Bundesliga and PL as far as I can see, play with a 3 man backline these days.

Stoke. Hull City. Schalke.

Why?

by Jay29 Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:12 pm

As far as Stoke are concerned, they're looking for ways to get the most out of Arnautovic and Shaqiri without burdening them with defensive responsibility. So three at the back allows them to play centrally while decreasing their defensive workload. Undoubtedly inspired by Hazard's role for Chelsea.

Hull have played three at the back for a good four or five years now. Bruce played it all the time. Phelan is playing it now because the squad is built for it.

by RealGunner Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:02 am

tell you Hans, back in my day, we had it so rough... or so much better, i can't tell anymore. anyway, every day, we would wake up at 2 in the morning and go to the table for breakfast. we all lived in a closet, you see, so it was one room. and we would ask, me and my 64 brothers and 27 sisters, "what's for breakfast mum?". she would smack us all with a shoe and say "cold beans". and if we complained and said "but we had cold beans yesterday" - because we had cold beans every day - she would smack us all five times with a shoe and say "tough its all we can afford. i'm trying to feed a family of 93 with just half a silver buckington", a silver buckington was about the same as half a penny back in the day. then we would head to school. we met up with the johnson kids from down the road, and walked the 1674 miles to school. on the way to school, we had to walk up a mountain so tall it extended to outer space. when we got to the top of the mountain, we would see the peterson boys on their fancy bikes - which they dont make like they used to, and we would race them down the mountain. then, when we got to school at 4 in the morning, the headmaster would come up to us and say "you bloody kids are late", then he would smack us all with the cane 10 times and tell us we had 7 years of detention. then, we went to class, and mr stevenson would say "ok line up kids", then he would spank us each 60 times, then hit us each with the cane 40 times each. then it was 7 at night and we had to walk home. then, when we got home, we'd ask "whats for dinner mum?", and she'd smack us each 50 times with a pan and say "rotten cabage". and if we complained, she would smack us each 100 times with a broom and say "im trying to feed a family of 154 on just one islet sliver, just you wait until your dad gets home" - now an islet silver was worth about as much as a grain of sand. then, when our dad got home from his job at the soot factory, he would hit us all 180 times with his belt. if we had been naughty, we would hit us all another 600 times. then, at 1:58, mum would say "ok time for bed". then, we got into our potato sacks, and she would hit us each with a shoe 8 times before we went to sleep. on saturdays, we went down to uncle bob's farm to work. we would have to walk 345 miles to the bus stop, then catch the route 4 bus for 56 stops. we would get on the bus and pay our fare of 3 teddy roses - now a teddy rose is worth about the same as a flake of skin. then, if the ticket inspector came to us, he would hit us all 4 times with his baton. if any of us had lost our ticket, we would hit us all 10 times again and throw us off the bus and we had to walk the rest of the way. when we got to the farm, uncle bob would drive to the gate in his tractor, hit us all 780 times with his crowbar, and tell us to get in his trailer so he could drive us to the farm house. then, we had to plow the fields with a toothbrush in the blazing summer heat - now, they dont make summers like they used to, so it was about 1345.4 degrees spencer, or 67 degrees centigrade using your new-fangled metric system. then, we would have to milk the cows - now, they dont make cows like they used to, so each cow weighed about 459 hog's heads, or 3.2 tonnes in your new-fangled metric system. if you touched a cows udder, it would kick you and you would die, so you had to be really careful when you milked the cows. then, when we were done, uncle bob would say "ok kids time for your pocket money". he would give us each 9 copper jemimahs - which are worth about one political promise each - and beat us each 6 times with his tractor before we left. on sundays, we would meet the johnson boys and go down to the river - now, they don't make rivers like they used to, so this river was about as wide as the whole of america, and as deep as the marianas trench, and it was filled with liquid tungsten. we would play by the old oak tree near the river, climbing on it and building tree houses and such. now - they don't make trees like they used to, so this tree had a trunk as thick as a city, and was tall enough that the branches on the top could scrape the moon. one day, little jimmy fell from the top of the tree. when he hit the ground, the only bit of his body we could recognise was his left eyeball. we picked up all his bits and rushed him to the doctors surgery. dr james said "oh its just a scratch little jimmy dont worry pop a plaster on it and you'll be right" and he gave little jimmy a plaster and a lollipop and he was ok. after we finished playing by the river, we would go into town and get some candy. now, back in the day, you could give the shopkeeper one bronze winglet - which is worth about as much as a ciggarette butt - and he would give you the entire stock of the store. so we would go and get our candy, and we'd go into the town square and eat it. now, we didn't have any of your fancy food laws back in the day, so there was all kinds of stuff in our candy. bleach, lsd, ecstasy, you name it. so we would always get a little hyper after our candy. one day, when we were hyper, we went up the mr boris's car, the only car in the town, and touched it. as we touched it, we saw dad storming down the street holding his belt. "you kids, having fun while i work all day in the soot factory just so you can have grilled water for tea every night, i oughta smack you all". we were sure he was going to smack us, but then he said "no, i got a better idea, ill take you to see mr henderson, he'll set ya right". now, dad had told us about mr henderson. mr henderson was a veteran from the great war, where he got a really bad injury, but we never knew what it was. dad walked us all down to the pub, and we saw a left testicle propped up on a pegleg. "mr henderson," said dad, "i have some kids here who need a good whooping". then, mr henderson picked up the entire pub, and hit us each 4006 times with it. then, dad said "right, i gotta go back to the soot factory, you kids run on home now". now, by now it was 1pm, which meant it was curfew. while we were walking out of the town square, we heard a man shout "oi you bloody kids, its curfew". we turned around and saw the constable holding his baton. he hit us each 160265 times with his baton, then put us in gaol for 60123865 years. now - they don't make gaols like they used to - this one had 5 mile thick steel walls, and a single hole in the top let in some light. we were in there for about 13526 years, until mum baked the constable some cardboard pie so he would let us out. then, she hit us all 1292 times with a washboard, and grounded us for the rest of our lives. so don't you come complaining to me about nonsense like not playing in dirt or broken glass, pathetic.

by Kaladin Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:12 am

RealGunner wrote:...

by McAgger Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:13 am

Reported.

PS: Didn't read
PPS: Also take my upvote.

by Gil Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:46 am

We all know about it, and we all see it. It's obvious. Nobody ever wants to admit it, but it's there.

People on this forum hate Eden Hazard.

The first question to ask: why? Why do you all hate him? The obvious answer: you didn't watch him in his prime.

Likely explanation: I know that most of you are around 14 or 15 years old. That means you only got into football in the last couple years. So you never watched Eden in his prime.

And because you didn't watch him in his prime, you try to compensate for that by diving into goals/assists and analyzing Squawka or Whoscored . But here's the thing: football isn't played on Squakwa spreadsheets. The moment somebody brings up "through balls completed" or "goals and assists" I know they know nothing about football.

Hazard's game cannot be encapsulated by one stat. He's the second greatest winger ever, and one of the 5 best players to ever play the game.

So when I hear somebody say that Neymar or Ronado is better than Eden Hazard, I laugh, because I know that anybody who watched Hazard in his prime wouldn't think that. Unlike you guys, I have watched football for a significant amount of time, so I know that Eden is better.

You might be jealous of Eden's swagger, or jealous of his status as the greatest athlete in Premier League history, or whatever. Unless you're a Napoli fan who watched football in the 80s, or a Barcelona fan who watched football in the 2000s, you don't know what real, cold-blooded, killer instinct, will-to-win football looks like. And there's nothing wrong with that.

This forum would make you think that Hazard isn't even a top 100 player ever.

So don't go spouting bullshit about players you didn't watch. Talk about your "greats" like Cristiano Ronaldo The Best Player in the World™, but leave the Hazard talk to the adults. Fair?

by Hapless_Hans Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:48 am

Fair.

by RealGunner Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:26 am

Very interesting thread Hans.

I was going to start one on something similar. It's a bit weird to see a 3 man backline in the Premier League because it's a league which has predominantly used a two banks of four system as it has worked for both title winning teams and teams that just wanted to avoid relegation. As Jay mentioned, few teams did use a 3 man backline in the past but not a lot of thought was given to those because they were irrelevant, however Roberto Martinez's Wigan side did play decent football at times while using 3-5-2. They got relegated with it though.

I believe Conte has raised a countrywide interest in the 3 man backline system. You see more and more teams using it now because it's something relatively fresh and other teams often don't know how to counter it. But it must be noted that such formation requires the right type of players and personnel. Chelsea wouldn't be as successful if they didn't have the industrious Victor Moses or the energised Marcos Alonso. So we have to take in mind how a system might be good on its own in theory, but it also depends on players who are able to do their duty well.

For example, Man City failed miserably because they have dire wingbacks and their CBs are as incompetent as those weight loss pills my wife has been trying for 4 years now. When Pep Guardiola tried a 3-5-2, he failed to understand that PL is unique. It has competent teams unlike the past leagues where he managed his teams with. But Pep Guardiola has now understood. He has reverted back to 4-3-3 and is waiting for Jan Transfer window to buy able players for his system because Pep desperately wants to return to 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 because you can't teach an old bald new tricks.

It will be an interesting 2nd half to the season. Will Teams figure out Conte's 3-5-2? Will Pep go back to his 3 man backline too?

As an Arsenal fan, I do wonder if Arsene will ever try it? In my 20 years of being an Arsenal faithful, I have never seen Arsene Wenger try a 3-5-2. Sure, we play a system where often we go 2-6-2 or 2-4-4 but that's not really a general formation. I beg my fellow Arsenal fans to come out and share their thoughts on whether we might be able to do it with the players we have?

------------------------Cech-------------------------------
----------Mustafi----------Koscielny------Holding--------
Walcott-------Xhaka-----Ramsey----Coquelin-------Welbeck
----------------Ozil-------Sanchez------------------------

Will that team ever work? I am not sure.

I am not a huge fan of it personally. It has served me well in the past on fifa13, fifa 14 and fifa15 where I tried a very fluid 3-1-2-2-2 formation using Bayern Munich and I thought it was fantastic. But unfortunately FIFA is not as realistic as real life sometimes.

I do hope Allegri joins Arsenal and we try a 3-5-2 eventually but we will have to wait and see.

Thank you for reading.

by Katy Perry Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:36 am

Gil wrote:We all know about it, and we all see it. It's obvious. Nobody ever wants to admit it, but it's there.

People on this forum hate Eden Hazard.

The first question to ask: why? Why do you all hate him? The obvious answer: you didn't watch him in his prime.

Likely explanation: I know that most of you are around 14 or 15 years old. That means you only got into football in the last couple years. So you never watched Eden in his prime.

And because you didn't watch him in his prime, you try to compensate for that by diving into goals/assists and analyzing Squawka or Whoscored . But here's the thing: football isn't played on Squakwa spreadsheets. The moment somebody brings up "through balls completed" or "goals and assists" I know they know nothing about football.

Hazard's game cannot be encapsulated by one stat. He's the second greatest winger ever, and one of the 5 best players to ever play the game.

So when I hear somebody say that Neymar or Ronado is better than Eden Hazard, I laugh, because I know that anybody who watched Hazard in his prime wouldn't think that. Unlike you guys, I have watched football for a significant amount of time, so I know that Eden is better.

You might be jealous of Eden's swagger, or jealous of his status as the greatest athlete in Premier League history, or whatever. Unless you're a Napoli fan who watched football in the 80s, or a Barcelona fan who watched football in the 2000s, you don't know what real, cold-blooded, killer instinct, will-to-win football looks like. And there's nothing wrong with that.

This forum would make you think that Hazard isn't even a top 100 player ever.

So don't go spouting bullshit about players you didn't watch. Talk about your "greats" like Cristiano Ronaldo The Best Player in the World™, but leave the Hazard talk to the adults. Fair?

This is the only part about your post I don't agree with. You can't just distantiate yourself from the non enlightened. You can't just let them live in ignorance.

If I see someone uninformed, I scan them, I judge them, I discover the bowels of their opinions and I investigate on their roots; and when I encounter a malformed opinion, when I'm faced against unripe cosciences, I instigate them, I provoke them, and if necessary I'll insult them.

They are the majority of the football fans, not much I can do about that. I'll often get mocked and I'll most likely get insulted back, but as long as there's blood in my veins I'll continue to do that.

Yes, I'll keep playing the Cato role in this forum and every football discussion I have, because most football fans are young and need to be cultivated, with the carrott and the stick, and I have no intention to let them grope in the dark just because you don't have the awareness worthy of someone who is a football knowledge specialist.

So, if there's the possibility, however grim it is, to hurt the sensibility and false of security of my interlocutor with my words and welcome them to reality, I'll keep preaching.

God bless you and good night.

by rincon Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:02 pm

Its ironic that the original hipster who started this most recent trend of 3-man backlines (Guidolin at Udinese) got sacked so quickly from the prem.

by julias Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:06 am

RealGunner wrote:
Spoiler:

I can't tell you how many times I laughed at this

by Katy Perry Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:45 pm

rincon wrote:Its ironic that the original hipster who started this most recent trend of 3-man backlines (Guidolin at Udinese) got sacked so quickly from the prem.

Wait, Guidolin introduced his 3 man defense somewhen in 2010 because of many injured players in
Mazzarri is the coach that believed in the 3man defense from the start of his career because he felt that was the best approach to take on football, and he has made a career out of it.
He deployed that system in 2006 when he took a calciopoli penalized Reggina that started the season with - 11 points and conducted th to a miraculous escape from relegation. He also used that when he got Samp to a historic Coppa Italia final.
Playing against Mazzarri in 11-12 was the first time Conte ever tried that system, before becoming one with it in the following years of his career.

As for this thread on itself, I think the 3 man defense system can help you in certain circumstances, but it's not the perfect system, it can very well be of no use at all or be detrimental if you don't have the right players and the right approach to it.

The back 3 helps you immensely if you have a CB that is mistake prone, if you need to improve your build up play from the back, if you have fullbacks that are too offensive in a back 4, if you want to relieve someone of his defensive duties.

The biggest signal of how a team's interpretation towards a 3 man defense system is, it's how they deploy the wingbacks. There are "catenaccio" teams that play an actual 5 man defense and barely attack with their WBs, balanced teams that use them as box to box fullbacks (I don't want to use the FM coined "complete wingback" in fear of being burned at the stake), and reckless teams that use actual wingers.
The first and the third are not sustainable and should be used only on rare occasions IMO, whereas the second is the ideal.

by halamadrid2 Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:44 pm

Aaaand Zizou is the latest coach to be sucked into this sham

by halamadrid2 Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:00 pm

40 game winning streak undone by this sham formation. Let this be a lesson learnt for everyone

by Freeza Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:03 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:40 game winning streak undone by this sham formation. Let this be a lesson learnt for everyone

The formation wasn't at fault for any of the goals though.

by titosantill Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:04 pm

lol, thank you hala its a copy cat sport. fans see something works for some other team and they start suggesting that their team should try the same regardless of different personnel.

by titosantill Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:11 pm

whilst the formation or system wasn't at fault, the way people always suggest "play 3 at the back", like it will automatically yield something amazing. but that's the thing with us, sometimes we look for ways to shoot ourselves in the foot with the rubbish we played late in the game

by Kick Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:03 am

Just heard a stat saying 8 of the 20 PL teams last week played 3 at the back.

I think we'll see more and more teams playing it, especially with it working wonders with Conte and Chelsea.

by Mr Nick09 Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:29 pm

Zidane the last discipline, absolutely shit show

by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:46 pm

quoted from the 'Three Kitten' thread regarding tonight's Germany-England friendly

Jay29 wrote:England playing a back three against Germany tonight:

Hart; Keane, Cahill, Smalling; Walker, Dier, Livermore, Bertrand; Lallana, Alli; Vardy

Dier-Livermore

by Warrior Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:32 pm

Wtf kinda team is that ??

England used to be good on paper but play like shit on the field, now they're shit on both field & papers.

by Robespierre Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:53 pm

Mazzarri got this .

Seriously everything began from Serie A 5 years ago and I think Mehzzarri was the first to do it in Napoli. He always says it. "Brought up Conte to have copied him Very Happy

by Lord Spencer Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:11 pm

Wow, I forgot how weird this forum can sometimes be Laughing

by Doc Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:56 am

To further enforce this 3-man backline trend, my country, Trinidad and Tobago played a 3 man backline in our latest qualifier against Panama. And, unlike that fraud Zidane, we won so...yeah, this shit has really become a trend.

by Glory Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:41 am

Even the mighty Mourinho who until now has never used it in his career has started using it for United after taking notes from Don Conte's books.
Hence no way its poverty. Its this new shit thats gonna stay. Proud

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