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So the question is would you prefer to sell Rugani outright and keep Caldara, or keep Rugani and sell Caldara with a buy back clause?

It looks like we can't keep both unfortunately.  It would be great if both were capable to be starters now, but that isn't going to happen with Chiellini still around and him being our captain.  These young players know there is only one spot to fight for and if both are on the team one will sit on the bench.

I personally prefer to keep Caldara, but if we can keep Rugani and sell Caldara with a buy back option that may be the best case scenario to keep ahold of both of them for the future.

So why are we going after Bonucci?  Well because he is a better option than Benatia and the two youngsters are still unproven on the big stage, so with Ronaldo I am sure Marotta and Allegri would prefer to go into the Champions League with a proven commodity in Bonucci.  Yes he played shit last year, but did improve under Gattuso and I am sure Allegri will get the best out of him again.  It also allows us to go back to a 3 man backline if need be as Bonucci's favourite position is as a sweeper.  I can see us playing alot of the 3 man backline especially with Sandro and Cancelo in the lineup together and with our lack of depth in midfield.

Even if Milan does accept Bonucci + cash vs. Higuain, we will be left with too many defenders. We currently have Chiellini, Benatia, Barzagli, Rugani and Caldara. We cannot add Bonucci to this list without removing one regardless. So, it'll either be Rugani to Chelsea, Caldara to Milan or Benatia to some random team [no rumours of his exit].

Also, both Rugani and Caldara are 24 now and should be regular starters. They are not 21-22 and still learning. Chiellini will probably be a starter for at least 2 more years, so Rugani and Caldara both know they will be fighting for one spot for the next 2 years unless we go back to a 3 man backline permanently, which I don't see happening.

Honestly, if we can keep control of Caldara through a buy back clause and bring him back after Chiellini is done in 2 years that may be our best option, versus selling Rugani outright.

It's not a bad point but I believe on 50 games per season, it's possible to sustain the current group we do have at least for the season ahead

The only sense you can make behind these rumours is we dont want to deprive both Rugani and Caldara so we might be open to selling Caldara if there's a buyback clause because if not, it makes zero sense. How can you just give away one of the best young CB talents for this old, traitorous bum ? (and with high wages to boot)

I cant believe we can be that stupid surely.

Its also a matter of self respect. Its like players can come and go to Juventus whenever they please to like this is some holiday destination or something. What about the fans that were actively jeering him last year ? Now they'd welcome him with open arms like nothing happened ?

Fukk Bonucci. If we get him at the expense of losing Caldara, i'm going to find it really hard to support him in a Juventus jersey.

Leonardo had a positive meeting with Fabio Paratici around lunch time before his meeting with the agents of Bonucci and Caldara’s agents. Milan reiterated their will to include Caldara in the deal

[Sky]

Nuovo arrivo nella nostra #Primavera!
Pablo #Moreno è bianconero! #JuventusYouthhttps://t.co/82MksUL5xY pic.twitter.com/VoewLVSZJd

— JuventusFC Youth (@JuventusFCYouth) July 27, 2018

Apparently he scored 72 goals in 27 games for Barca's youth team, bettering Messi's record.

I guess the plan will be to play him in Juve B right away?

Milan have a principle agreement with Juventus: Equal exchange, Bonucci- Caldara

Higuain would come in on loan. Working to finalise the agreement. [Sky]

What the *bleep* are we doing??

What the *bleep* is this ??

Might be time to irrationally meltdown

Giving away Caldara for Bonucci
Loaning Higuain to Milan

We need to get paid. We spent the most in Europe without selling a single first team player. Higuain is the odd man out. If it's to Milan, or Chelsea, it doesn't matter.

Neither is our rival. Chelsea isn't in CL and Milan is irrelevant. In sporting terms, the ones that lose with having Higuain in Milan are Lazio, Roma and Inter.

If we can't get a satisfactory offer from Chelsea, then sell him to Milan. I'm sorry for Gonzalo who served us well and probably deserves better.

Losing Caldara is the bad thing. Hopefully there is a buyback if the deal goes through.

Perhaps this is what must be done to move Higuain for a high fee. Another option is that it's rumoured that Caldara wants to play.

Either of those (or both) on top of this push the club is doing for going all-in in the short term. While sacrificing future options.

I understand some are angry with Bonucci, but he sure as hell is better than our options bar Chiellini. If before summer of 2017 we all wrote our starting lineups for this season, no doubt we all wrote Bonucci at the back.

For me, more than gladly, Bonucci is welcomed home. This is his place. With black and white, next to Giorgio.

whew

Luca and S are against his return. Warrior, juve_gigi (I think) and I are for him to some degree.

What do the rest of the guys think?

It's a complex situation with a lot of emotions for both views.

For me even just seeing that lineup Luca wrote makes me happy. Seeing his intensity and his skills for us again would be intense and great. Not just defensively but how he plays the ball, playing from the back is twice as easy with Bonucci there.

He showed his madness with Juve every week for years. It was right that he showed it for Milan when he moved. I'd be happy to see that intensity again for our side.

I mean, from a sporting view its a simple transfer. His inclusion improves us

But leaving us last summer to pull this shit this summer and cost us Caldara in the process has me salty as *bleep*. I know I'm just a fan and my opinion is rather meaningless but I feel personally offended by his shamelessness

And he once was one of my very favourite players and personalities at Juventus. I remember him joining from Bari, looking out of his depth and eventually finding his feet and improving season after season, becoming one of our most important players always.

Bittersweet

Imo, there is no chance for Mandzukic to get benched, not after such a WC.

^I also think that, unless some players become revelations, we line up like that in big games.

Mandzu won't play most matches cause I don't think he even can. When he gets tired after too many games he is useless. But for the big tight matches I think he starts.

Other matches with Mandzu benched, CR center and then another mid or forward in.

rincon wrote:Luca and S are against his return. Warrior, juve_gigi (I think) and I are for him to some degree.

What do the rest of the guys think?

It's a complex situation with a lot of emotions for both views.

For me even just seeing that lineup Luca wrote makes me happy. Seeing his intensity and his skills for us again would be intense and great. Not just defensively but how he plays the ball, playing from the back is twice as easy with Bonucci there.

He showed his madness with Juve every week for years. It was right that he showed it for Milan when he moved. I'd be happy to see that intensity again for our side.

If we use cold logic, signing Bonucci wouldn't be that bad, especially now that Godin is confirmed out of our reach.

I would be OK with his return only under 2 conditions

1) Caldara stays. Period.
2) He is just another player for us. No captaincy, no special treatment, no nothing.

Luca wrote:

Cristiano-Dybala
Douglas-Pjanic-Emre Cananes-Bernardeschi
Alex Sandro-Chiellini-Bonucci-Cancelo
Szczesny

whew

This team would be a favourite to win the CL...

rincon wrote:Luca and S are against his return. Warrior, juve_gigi (I think) and I are for him to some degree.

What do the rest of the guys think?

It's a complex situation with a lot of emotions for both views.

For me even just seeing that lineup Luca wrote makes me happy. Seeing his intensity and his skills for us again would be intense and great. Not just defensively but how he plays the ball, playing from the back is twice as easy with Bonucci there.

He showed his madness with Juve every week for years. It was right that he showed it for Milan when he moved. I'd be happy to see that intensity again for our side.

I'm all in on Bonucci because when he is in top form he would be our best CB.  Remember he was considered the best CB in the world only 2 years ago.  He certainly did not lose all of his talent overnight.  I still remember those long passes from the middle to spring our counter attack.  Imagine Bonucci passing to Pjanic up the middle and then Pjanic distributing to Ronaldo and Dybala.

I hate the thought of losing Caldara because he does have great potential.  I wish there was a way to keep him.  But he does not want to stay at Juve if Bonucci returns so that is why he is agreeing to move to Milan as he feels he is a starter.  With Rugani, he is more of the mold of a Chiellini, so he could be a very good sub for Giorgio when he gets his first injury.  Caldara is similar to Bonucci in playing style so he knows with Bonucci around he wouldn't get much playing time.  Plus we still have Benatia and Barzagli as subs.  So we are older but much stronger at the back with Bonucci to make a serious run at CL glory.

It is what we all want at the end of the day.  We all want the trophy with the big ears.  Isn't that what it is all about now?  Who cares about the stupid Scudetto and Coppa Italia.  We could win the next 7 Scudetti and Coppa Italia trophies in a row and none of us would be satisfied unless there was a CL trophy to go along with them.

The fact is Ronaldo and Bonucci make us the CL favourites.  That's the bottom line.  I don't see any other team from top to bottom starting 11 stronger than Juve with Ronaldo and Bonucci in our lineup.

I doubt this move will concretize, Marotta said it wasn't gonna happen and our defense "already has a satisfying level". I'd say 25% of chances.

I read everywhere in the Google actuality that Juventus is completely against the perspective of giving away Caldara. And i agree to it, rather give away Benatia or Rugani as worst scenario. Marotta has the upper hand. If by miracle Caldara leaves then life goes on, he is far from a Juve legend, unlike Bonucci yeah it sucks cause we'd lose an interesting prospect who never got a chance.

That being said, bring back Bonucci does not go against my feelings, now he looks like a cuck and that's his problem not mine. If he comes back he will apologize and reintegrate fast enough, imagine someone of your family lose his mind for a while, would you forgive him ? i don't buy the revolt in Turin streets narrative, everybody have short memory in sports.

If Marotta negotiates a buy back clause for Caldara then Beppe is indeed the Godfather as that would allow us to get Bonucci today to win the CL today and then have the option to reacquire Caldara at a future date when Bonucci starts to decline. And on top of that if we can unload Higuain's wages while getting $15 million for him upfront that would be the cherry on the top.

Let's see how this plays out...

Buffon out, Ronaldo in, that sounds fair enough to me, there is no need to sell Higuain or other players unless there is a tactical reason

thinking about that to me it sounds logical to sell Dybala and with the money to take someone like SMS or Pogba , fair enough and build a better midfield

Ronaldo - Higuain - Cuadrado/Costa
----------------- Pjanic ---------------
----------Pogba -- Matuidi ------
Lb ------- cb -------- cb --------- rb

I'll be fine with Bonucci returning as long as he performs like he used to before he left. Who cares about feelings? Maybe some fans but not our management.We'll get back a defender who was considered by many as the best in the world. I was pretty sure he would be getting exposed at Milan because his qualities fit only at a team like Juve playing along strong defenders such Chiellini.He can't make defense on his own but he can improve it.

Anyway even though I would agree with such a move I'm a bit worried Milan will lowball us. Just like last year when we had offers worth 60m and sold Bonucci for 40m they will try to do the same.

I expect Milan to ask for a Caldara-Bonucci swap (not involving aby money) which is a good deal for us in the short term but without a buy-back clause we might lose a great CB for the future.

As for Higuain I think he might prefer to stay in Italy and I don't see Milan offering more than just a loan + option/obligation and (50m in total)

We should focus on two things. Securing a buy-back for Caldara & atleast 60m in total for Higgy (if loan then with obligation sm like 20+40m)

if we really let Mehlan f**k us in the arse by giving them Caldara and Higuain for Bonucci
Beppe has to always f**k up such a good mercato with such stupidity, honestly make them pay $60m for Higuain if they want him so much or sell to Chelsea, keep Caldara at all cost, and f**k that f**king traitor Bonucci who left us last year after all we did for him in the name of glory, became captain scored against us and celebrated like a b*tch, then soon as we sign Chrsitiano Ronaldo he has seen an opportunity in winning the CL so he wants us at all costs, honestly f**k him, let him burn at Mehlan but never give them Caldara......
am so f**king pissed with this nonsense.