Conte Real Madrid sack watch

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Doc on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:17 pm

I forgot about Cassano actually. Apparently, only 3 Italian players are known (Wiki) to have played for Madrid. No way that is true.


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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:22 pm

maybe that's why I felt somehow like COnte would not happen

Just doesn't feel right even if he is of course EXACTLY the coach to get the best out of your squad right now

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by rincon on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:24 pm

The whole thing with Conte at Chelsea was that they didn't get his targets and he took it to the public.
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:40 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Could a Chelsea fan confirm this for me. Who decided that signing Bakayoko was a good idea?


I remember Conte being quite upset that Matic was sold from under him, and that Bakayoko was the replacement.

Given the recent transfer policies at Chelsea, I think Conte had a point.. to a degree. That being said I don't think it will be much better at Real (cheap) Madrid.
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:03 pm

I'm really glad Conte stood up to Florentino and essentially told him that the squad he has lacks (at least) two very important signings.

The funny thing is, Florentino doesn't believe that and that's the reason the negotiations have stalled. His level of delusion is disturbing.

I wish he had someone in the board of directors with balls to tell him "Dude, wake the f up, your squad sucks. Give Conte what he wants, you delusional numpty"

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:22 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Could a Chelsea fan confirm this for me. Who decided that signing Bakayoko was a good idea?


I remember Conte being quite upset that Matic was sold from under him, and that Bakayoko was the replacement.

Given the recent transfer policies at Chelsea, I think Conte had a point.. to a degree. That being said I don't think it will be much better at Real (cheap) Madrid.
the notion that we are cheap with our transfers is highly inaccurate imo

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:36 am

We've had a net positive spend over how many years now? If RM were not so cheap, I believe they would have bought a decent striker by now. The wage bill is the lowest it has been in years, far below Barca and other top teams. Really not much of an excuse besides not having the same lavish spending policies as we had in the past.
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by titosantill on Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:18 am

we aren't cheap, we haven't been gong ho like before, but we aren't cheap. spending 45 million on a teenager isn't cheap. we are just damn confused. we've spent some money on players, which in this market might look cheap, but for the quality or lack thereof that they bring, it isn't cheap
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:39 am

It's definitely cheap, tito. The last time the club spent more than 45mil on a single player was 4 years ago. Since then we have been spending only on teenagers because they don't cost as much as established players in Europe.

There's a clear and radical shift in our transfer policy that made us go after players whose profiles would've gone immediately in Florentino's paper shredder a few years back. Now, however, those are the only players he seems to be interested in right now.

We're no longer willing to spend big to land world beaters. Instead, we're betting on unproven teenagers in the hope that one of them will make it.

These are our recent transfer activities:

1. Rodrygo: 45m
2. Vinicius: 45m.
3. Courtois: 35m.
4. Odriozola: 31m.
5. Mariano: 20m.

Do these look like the transfers an ambitious club in a desperate need of rebuilding would make? No, the club has definitely become cheap.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by titosantill on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:23 am

those are not cheap numbers....90 million for two unproven kids, i don't know what odriozola has done to warrant a 31 mill move. that's not cheap.....it may be foolish, may be ridiculous, but not cheap. its actually unnecessarily extravagant. mariano's fee is reasonable,  it is what it is with courtois. cheap would be wenger for example, who would sign those youngsters for say 5 million. we are not signing stars but we're spending money on strange moves.....banking on potential, which is something i do not like at all
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:42 am

It is relatively cheap compared to today's inflated market. It's a market where goalkeepers and defenders are going for 80m.

Florentino chose to buy two nobodies for 90m instead of spending 150m on a single world beater. That's cheap.

Also, and if the rumor Marca has printed today has any truth to it, Madrid is on the verge of signing another unproven player from South America for 20m. Another cheap move.

We may disagree on what's cheap and what's not, but at least we both agree that this transfer policy is crappy.


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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:41 am

who is that 150 million world beater? lol

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:46 am

@vanDEEZ wrote:We've had a net positive spend over how many years now? If RM were not so cheap, I believe they would have bought a decent striker by now. The wage bill is the lowest it has been in years, far below Barca and other top teams. Really not much of an excuse besides not having the same lavish spending policies as we had in the past.
i reasonably think they did not find a player worth signing this summer, nor one that was available. you have to remember that players like Cavani, Lewandowski etc, were not available. So if the very best players are not available to sign, who do you go for?

It has more to do with opportunity. If there is no elite target to sign, then dont overspend on players you will regret in a year or two.

In my view, we are doing two things: 1) biding our time to sign the players we truly want, while being careful and open to market opportunities, 2) signing young players because that's part of the development strategy of the club anyway. It's a strategy that yielded someone like Casemiro who has been instrumental for us. Beside, Vinicius and Rodrygo are two super talented players, and their valuation given the market is not excessive. We have money in the bank for signings, specially now that we have a financing strategy for the stadium.

Many are acting as if the club has existed just for the past two months, and many more are failing to realize that we are in between cycles.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Thimmy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:02 am

We are in between cycles? 10 games into the league season, and we're already in crisis mode. I don't think our board believes in cycles. We use a lot of duct tape to cover the cracks in the walls, instead of properly fixing the walls.
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Myesyats on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:40 am

I don't think Conte will make a huge difference. What you need more, in my opinion, is to refresh the squad and bring in replacements for ageing players like Modric, Ramos and Benzema. Also fill in the void Cristiano left by changing the tactics perhaps. They're not hungry anymore and it's clearly not in their style to give up a Clasico like that.

Usually when Madrid got a whooping in a Clasico they were completely outclassed but now they just gave up and decided to not defend their goal whatsoever lol

Sometimes you just need to let go of some players. I'd start with Benzema and Modric who clearly hit his peak and now is on the decline. Next summer will be huge for Madrid. You need to say goodbye to some big names IMO.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:54 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@vanDEEZ wrote:We've had a net positive spend over how many years now? If RM were not so cheap, I believe they would have bought a decent striker by now. The wage bill is the lowest it has been in years, far below Barca and other top teams. Really not much of an excuse besides not having the same lavish spending policies as we had in the past.
i reasonably think they did not find a player worth signing this summer, nor one that was available. you have to remember that players like Cavani, Lewandowski etc, were not available. So if the very best players are not available to sign, who do you go for?

It has more to do with opportunity. If there is no elite target to sign, then dont overspend on players you will regret in a year or two.

In my view, we are doing two things: 1) biding our time to sign the players we truly want, while being careful and open to market opportunities, 2) signing young players because that's part of the development strategy of the club anyway. It's a strategy that yielded someone like Casemiro who has been instrumental for us. Beside, Vinicius and Rodrygo are two super talented players, and their valuation given the market is not excessive. We have money in the bank for signings, specially now that we have a financing strategy for the stadium.

Many are acting as if the club has existed just for the past two months, and many more are failing to realize that we are in between cycles.


I get that we are in between cycles, but there are multiple players we have passed on who would not have been outside of our spending power in the past. Players who could have eased this transition and been decent for another 4-5 years. Griezmann, and Icardi both would have cost 100m, Auba at 60m basically begged us to buy him. Sure none of these players are Ronaldo level, but think of the difference it would have made to have one of them over Benzema. We didn't try to negotiate for Dybala in a swap deal, we passed on Mbappe when the price got too high, and our transfers have just generally stagnated. I can understand waiting for the right player, but if we are waiting for the next Ronaldo for under 50m, it's just not going to happen.
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:35 am

@vanDEEZ wrote:I get that we are in between cycles, but there are multiple players we have passed on who would not have been outside of our spending power in the past. Players who could have eased this transition and been decent for another 4-5 years. Griezmann, and Icardi both would have cost 100m, Auba at 60m basically begged us to buy him. Sure none of these players are Ronaldo level, but think of the difference it would have made to have one of them over Benzema. We didn't try to negotiate for Dybala in a swap deal, we passed on Mbappe when the price got too high, and our transfers have just generally stagnated. I can understand waiting for the right player, but if we are waiting for the next Ronaldo for under 50m, it's just not going to happen.

Beautiful.

I would also add that we are no longer shopping from the elite section. We're exclusively fishing from the unproven pool and utterly refuse to inject elite blood into an ageing and decaying squad.

The players you mentioned, and like you said, are no Ronaldo, but they would have significantly been an improvement to the option we have right now.

It just goes to show that the club is no longer ambitious and aren't looking to do anything to help smooth the transition.

This is the definition of a cheap club and I never thought I would live to see the day Real Madrid turn into one.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by sportsczy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:50 am

The massive flaw was that they either wanted Neymar or Mbappe this summer no matter the cost.... or nobody.

The big killer was playing cute with Mbappe the summer before when he was ready to sign... because we wanted to sell Morata first... and then have PSG hijack the deal.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:59 am

@vanDEEZ wrote:
I get that we are in between cycles, but there are multiple players we have passed on who would not have been outside of our spending power in the past. Players who could have eased this transition and been decent for another 4-5 years. Griezmann, and Icardi both would have cost 100m, Auba at 60m basically begged us to buy him. Sure none of these players are Ronaldo level, but think of the difference it would have made to have one of them over Benzema. We didn't try to negotiate for Dybala in a swap deal, we passed on Mbappe when the price got too high, and our transfers have just generally stagnated. I can understand waiting for the right player, but if we are waiting for the next Ronaldo for under 50m, it's just not going to happen.
Being in between cycles doesnt mean you accept being mediocre, and this is why Lopetegui was furiously fired. The proposition that we can't beat teams like CSKA or levante with our current squad as is, is laughable to me, because our squad is certainly way better than those teams.

This is what you get wrong imo, you can't complain about past signings not made when your existing squad delivered you the CL. you just can't. This is the price we paid for winning 3 CLs in a row. Zidane as a manager protected his team from change because he had seemingly found perfect balance and that allowed you to achieve an historic success.

You need to accept that trade, we did not try to bring on players that would have been disruptive to our statrting XI and the reward we earned for that is 4 CLs in 5 years.

The point you have to look at is from the summer 2018, who was available and what have we done? again, the market was remarkably empty on targets. Icardi is not worth spending 100 mil on and as far as i know, Dybala was not on the market. We are not waiting for the next Ronaldo at 50m, specially given that we paid higher for Ronaldo, we are trying to avoid panic buying average players at a premium.



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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:04 am

@sportsczy wrote:The massive flaw was that they either wanted Neymar or Mbappe this summer no matter the cost.... or nobody.

There's definitely some truth to what you're saying, but for the life of me I don't understand the logic behind it.

This idea that you either should get a Ballon d'Or-level player or nothing should only be a luxury to clubs who already have a starting eleven of world beaters and can sustain going 2 or 3 years without making major signings.

This is definitely not the case for Madrid. They are being too picky even though there were many players on the market that are way better than some of the players they have. So why not make the upgrade? Because you're waiting for another Ronaldo? Great, keep waiting while your squad is rapidly becoming mid-table level.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by sportsczy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:14 am

Icardi and Griezmann are absolutely worth 100 mil in this market... Grizzy was a steal. Icardi is better than Lukaku and Morata... so I would say the price is about right there too given the CF market.

Look... keepers and CBs are going for 40-50 mil. So forwards are going to go at an exponential amount.

Second, competition isn't disrupting the starting XI. You have the set regulars of course... but then you push them with guys who are fighting to take their spot. Forces the regular 11 to play at a top level. Right now, there is no fear for anyone at Real Madrid other than RB and Isco/Asensio.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:26 am

Except that Zidane went out of his way not to bring signings that were disruptive to his starting XI. our guys did not want more competition anyway, they were european champions and did not want change. Zidane ensured that. I mean we just tried to sign "competition" as you say with Kepa, and Zidane veto'd that publicly to tank the deal.

So we paid a price for not making those signings which would have been disruptive, and that price was winning champions league, not bad eh?

Now after the fact, people come here and they have the luxury to complain...lol. They are being picky because the market is shit, Griezmann was not going anywhere, man turned down barca lol. Icardi? we will continue to disagree on this.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by sportsczy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:57 am

That's a false statement (according to what I've heard and adding some common sense to put it in some context).  

Flo didn't want to pay for the players Zidane asked for (Pogba, Hazard and Mbappe) and didn't want to spend for players he felt were redundant although Zidane wanted them (Kante, Dybala if not Hazard, etc.).

The only positions where Zidane really didn't want anyone was goalkeeper as he felt Navas was fine and CF because he felt CR couldn't co-exist with another alpha scorer.  What's with the sudden obsession for keepers by the Madrid brass anyhow lol.  Kepa saw what Zidane did to players he didn't want and decided not to come...  although ZZ always defended every player, whether they deserved it or not.  Kepa just didn't want to risk his career.

He did not get along with Jose Angel Sanchez and Flo took Sanchez' side on transfers because Sanchez threatened to leave the club (Mourinho wanted him at Man U).  Flo gambled that Zidane wouldn't leave the job.  Bad call by Flo.  Why should ZZ take the fall for decisions he isn't privy to?

CL win or loss, ZZ was going to leave this past summer.  The de-facto sporting director Sanchez and Zidane did not get along at all.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:07 pm

I used to think that Zidane was behind our lack of transfer activities as well. But then I saw that the club didn't buy anyone after he left, so it's safe to assume that he wasn't the guy blocking the transfers.

Plus, it's not like Florentino listens to anybody anyway. If he truly wants to do something, he'll do it whether you like it or not. He's just being cheap, that's all there is to it.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Like I said you can't complain about a strategy that yielded 4 CLs in 5 years, and worry about some jobbers we did not sign because they wanted too much money and guaranteed play time.

Show me all those super smart clubs who built a better squad than we did recently, can't wait.

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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

Post by Thimmy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:01 pm

We didn't build our team recently. We've only tasted success recently because our key players matured. At one point, a large reason for our success was our exceptional depth compared to the other, significant competitors. We don't have any of that, right now. Little depth that matters, players that are getting closer to their expiration date, and the loss of a player who's been central to our success. I'd argue that Pepe was an important cog in our CL winning campaign recently, as well. What's our strategy now?
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Re: Conte Real Madrid sack watch

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