Per Mertesacker a gunner!

Anyone excited about M'Vila? Just saw him on youtube and think he's a great holding midfielder, good cover for Denilson.

chinomaster182 wrote:Anyone excited about M'Vila? Just saw him on youtube and think he's a great holding midfielder, good cover for Denilson.

good cover for denilson? that's it? kid can walk into Arsenal 1st eleven, and virtually any team out there.

He has a weapon not many DMs have, fantastic distribution. He is gonna be huge

25m is a heck of alot for a DM, even one as talented as he.

The Franchise wrote:25m is a heck of alot for a DM, even one as talented as he.

I reckon it's a lot, but Arsenal is buying in the last hours of the market, screwing up Rennes in the process.

They were going to have a solid season again, but now they would have to do without him if the deal goes through. Arsenal has to pay more, their fault.

M'vila is the best DM out of france since Vieira. And dont think he is just a DM, wenger will convert him into a B2B type one, quite sure of that lol

I'll take him for 25m. But not more then 30

The Franchise wrote:25m is a heck of alot for a DM, even one as talented as he.

You wouldn't value Busquets at that price?

I also think Rennes is asking for too much, but the thing is they know Arsenal are desperate and have tons of cash.

Yeah, no questioning the reason. Its more me saying, Arsenal are taking a gamble..which is perhaps what they need.

But to be frank, no matter how good the players are defensively, they need a defensive plan.

Against Man Utd it was a total sham. A high line with no pressure on the passes? It was so easy for Man Utd to play passes in behind, the defence couldnt do anything.

Half the team pressing, half of them backing off, some standing and watching....shambles.

They need a defensive plan.

chinomaster182 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:25m is a heck of alot for a DM, even one as talented as he.

You wouldn't value Busquets at that price?

I also think Rennes is asking for too much, but the thing is they know Arsenal are desperate and have tons of cash.

Well I didnt say it was wrong for Rennes to ask that, its VERY late in the window, they should milk this for what they can and more power to them.

And lets leave Busquets out of this, no good can come of it lol

RealGunner wrote:M'vila is the best DM out of france since Vieira. And dont think he is just a DM, wenger will convert him into a B2B type one, quite sure of that lol

I'll take him for 25m. But not more then 30

Yh, he has enough potential for that. He doesnt go up much since he controls the distribution from deep, but i have seen some nice on the ball skills from him. Passing is of high quality, he is very smart in the way he reads the game and always tries to be a passing outlet.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:

RealGunner wrote:M'vila is the best DM out of france since Vieira. And dont think he is just a DM, wenger will convert him into a B2B type one, quite sure of that lol

I'll take him for 25m. But not more then 30

Yh, he has enough potential for that. He doesnt go up much since he controls the distribution from deep, but i have seen some nice on the ball skills from him. Passing is of high quality, he is very smart in the way he reads the game and always tries to be a passing outlet.

Can you see him working alongside Song/Frimpong the way Vieira use to work next to Petit?

Yes he can, but be cautious, M'vila is not Viera

As long as he's not Denilson, either....

che wrote:too slow for a high defensive line

If you play a high defensive line, you need smart defenders, not necessarily quick ones. Who would you say the fastest CB in the game is? Well, whoever he is, i doubt he could catch a striker at full speed. Shit happens, no system is completely invulnerable. A high line and well disciplined offside trap will be effective for the vast majority of games.

If the strikers get the chance to break a high defensive line all the time, then its not beneficial to have faster defenders. You need smarter defenders.

Paulo Maldini wasnt ever particularly fast. And he averaged less than 1 tackle per game sometimes. Because he was a genius, his positioning was so smart he never had to tackle or chase after anyone, he stopped situations happening

I detest the argument that slow defenders are useless if a high defensive line is needed. If you need to sprint and chase after a striker who is through on goal, you have already failed as a defender. It doesnt matter if you are quick enough to catch him or not, the fact that he is through on goal means you failed to mark him.

Lex wrote:As long as he's not Denilson, either....

No, he's not as good as a ball player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyX0oafG1yg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya9kRiy9oZM

God, i'm no Arsenal fan but i'm already pumped up, this guy looks great. Good on the ball, good vision, good passing skills, good positioning...

True Messi to a degree, but at the same time, in a high line you are pressing.

If you are pressing, you commit men forward without the ball.

If the opponant breaks the press, defenders are isolated with lots of space around then and in 1 v 1, 2 v 2 situations.

Having speed and quickness in these situations isnt just useful, its very much needed.

The Franchise wrote:True Messi to a degree, but at the same time, in a high line you are pressing.

If you are pressing, you commit men forward without the ball.

If the opponant breaks the press, defenders are isolated with lots of space around then and in 1 v 1, 2 v 2 situations.

Having speed and quickness in these situations isnt just useful, its very much needed.

Rafa's team was pretty damn good and should have won the league. The style was a scarily high defensive line, with pressing by forwards and wingers e.g. Kuyt and Benayoun really deep in the opponents half. It worked, from a defensive point of view anyway, Liverpool only lost two games all season.

You dont need to have loads of men in front of the ball in a pressing system, if you press with your forwards and not your defenders, who remain in position at all times. An essential player is the 2 holding midfielders who move horizontally to mop up all attacks.

Arsenal as it stand dont have 1) defenders smart enough to play a high defensive line, 2) hardworking wingers, or 3) a good defensive midfielder, so god know why i typed all that out, none of it will happen for Arsenal, regardless of Mertesacker....

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Franchise wrote:True Messi to a degree, but at the same time, in a high line you are pressing.

If you are pressing, you commit men forward without the ball.

If the opponant breaks the press, defenders are isolated with lots of space around then and in 1 v 1, 2 v 2 situations.

Having speed and quickness in these situations isnt just useful, its very much needed.

Rafa's team was pretty damn good and should have won the league. The style was a scarily high defensive line, with pressing by forwards and wingers e.g. Kuyt and Benayoun really deep in the opponents half. It worked, from a defensive point of view anyway, Liverpool only lost two games all season.

You dont need to have loads of men in front of the ball in a pressing system, if you press with your forwards and not your defenders, who remain in position at all times. An essential player is the 2 holding midfielders who move horizontally to mop up all attacks.

Arsenal as it stand dont have 1) defenders smart enough to play a high defensive line, 2) hardworking wingers, or 3) a good defensive midfielder, so god know why i typed all that out, none of it will happen for Arsenal, regardless of Mertesacker....

If you press with your forward and leave your defenders, you create huge gaps in between the lines, any number 10 worth a damn will rip you open and any defensive midfielders will get loads of time on the ball.

Spreading your team out over in essence the full length of the pitch is never something you want to do.

As compared to Pool, I dont remember this high line you speak of, I remeber Rafas pool vs us defending VERY deep, same as old Valencia.

Also, Mascherano played for Pool, Song plays for Arsenal..with all due respect there is a difference.

Good point

What the *bleep*. I love how the whole of Arsenal's tactics are obtained from that abortion of a match. Arsenal don't always play that way, people. That was a literally historical diarrhea of a showing.

Defenders smart enough for a defensive line? I wonder how the hell we got to CL football when we always play a high defensive line. We even played against Barca with a decently high defensive line. If you don't think Vermaelen and Koscielny aren't "smart" enough, then watch more Arsenal matches, or just look at Mertesacker who's the epitome of a "smart" CB.

Arshavin is shit tracking back and has no work ethic, and behind him was Traore who was just sold, which should tell you everything. Coquelin was debuting after only playing reserve matches, Rosicky isn't a typical hardworker either, Ramsey was isolated, and so were Walcott and VP.

If you don't consider Song, Wilshere, Sagna, Gervinho and hell, even Frimpong hardworking... We just added Park who's a typical hardworking Asian, if you want more. Song's a good defensive midfielder, and if we get M'Vila we're set in that position.

All we're missing is a creative player, which if we get M'Vila I see either us changing formations or tactics to a more conservative approach.

Dude calm down, nobody is saying anything outlandish are they?

If so, point us in the right direction and quote the parts which were wrong. Much more effective then long rants.

Its not news that Arsenal dont really have a defensive plan that they can fall back on.

You say you play a high line, but why isnt all the players pressing. Even guys like RVP who will play often.

Of course you have some hard working players, but if your pressing, one player slacking off makes all the difference.

song will be a play maker....

KMD wrote:song will be a play maker....

:lol!:

The Franchise wrote:Dude calm down, nobody is saying anything outlandish are they?

If so, point us in the right direction and quote the parts which were wrong. Much more effective then long rants.

Its not news that Arsenal dont really have a defensive plan that they can fall back on.

You say you play a high line, but why isnt all the players pressing. Even guys like RVP who will play often.

Of course you have some hard working players, but if your pressing, one player slacking off makes all the difference.

That's true but I can guarantee Arsenal will not play as high line as previous seasons. Wenger is not that tactically stubborn. We will see some adjustment, could be total make over or just tweak here and there.

Our midfield can not retain and maintain possession as before since Fab, Nasri who are great in crowd space no long here. The idea of technical midfield converted to wingers is also over, now we have real wingers with pace. I predict Arsenal will play more counter attack this season, looking at the players we have that makes most sense.

The Franchise wrote:Dude calm down, nobody is saying anything outlandish are they?

If so, point us in the right direction and quote the parts which were wrong. Much more effective then long rants.

Its not news that Arsenal dont really have a defensive plan that they can fall back on.

You say you play a high line, but why isnt all the players pressing. Even guys like RVP who will play often.

Of course you have some hard working players, but if your pressing, one player slacking off makes all the difference.

I was mostly talking to LM, and hitting his points in numerical order.

It's sad because our defense was doing great up to that game, even the goalkeeper was in great form but without Sagna and Vermaelen it just went to shambles. We even had some clean sheets, and our attack was more worrying than our defense. Djourou is in a really bad form right now, and Jenkinson is way out of depth. Basically our defensive depth is for shit, and I'm glad we put in 2 defensive signings instead of only 1.

Our defense isn't to blame here, though. It's our midfield. If Song or Wilshere or even Frimpong were there in that game, everything would have been different. They are the only ones with actual workrate in our midfield. Ramsey isn't bad, but was played higher up. Another point, our defensive midfield is also in lack of depth, probably why we're after M'Vila.

We actually press decently, but again that wasn't the best game to judge due to our crap talent and the whole team being bad. I am assuming you are criticizing Arsenal after the 8-2, because in other matches we have not been at all that bad, just lacking spark.

Fair enough. To be honest, I dont think its any one problem for you defensively. Sure you did well in the games before Man Utd and had players missing for the Man Utd game but thats a small sample size and Arsenals defensive problems are never too far away.

I am not speaking soley about the 8-2, I am talking generally.

If Arsenal are going to play a high line, thats great, at least its a plan which I dont think you had in previous seasons. But every single player has to buy into the system, even the subs or it will get exposed.

As bad as Djourou played, at times he was playing and offside line and someone didnt step up while at the same time nobody put pressure on the passer. Its got to be a collective thing where everyone does it, even subs.

so that 8-2 finally knocked some sense into wengers head !