Germany and the UEFA Coefficient - A Myth is busted!

The Messiah wrote:I agree that all logic are not fully understood.


Seria A, might need to become less arrogant and lets see if they can reclaim anything.

Currently I think maybe only Juventus team is comparable to Dortmund and better than Schalke.

Juventus aside, Dortmund, Bayern and Schalke got a better team than all Seria team.

So according to your opinion, Schalke must win their group (they can also 'destroy' AC Milan, ohh wait this wasn't an arrogance, this is the truth, so why not Schalke could win the UCL? ) Dortmund has to qualify, also Leverkusen, Stuttgart and Hannover must win their groups if they are so capable to beat all the teams from Serie A.They are the best teams in the world, wtf!? Why am i that shocked?

rwo power wrote:Yesterday, the mighty Peter Neururer proclaimed on TV in a football talk that obviously the Bundesliga is the strongest league of them all and a match like Stoke vs Bolton is at best 2nd BL quality

Let's forget about Serie A or EPL.People from GL, listen to me!Go and watch BL! Now you have a good reason .

Try to respect people and their feelings.It is foolish and worth a naive kid (blah) to say such things about teams from Serie A, Bundesliga or Premier League and you can't even know what will happen in future and you can't judge correctly what happened in the past.

Don't forget, you will be treated in the same way that you treat others.Everytime things will backfire on you, that's why I'm not rushing to make ridiculous comparisons without even having some filters to do it.

I'll tell you, some people don't even get it, but you really want to prove something there, unfortunately you won't have a chance to prove something.As you can see, all Serie A, EPL, La Liga fans don't even care right now if you say that BL is the best league.No offense, I just realised that by reading some posts on this forum.

I expect more from you (rwo power and The Messiah) and that's exactly because I know you and what you are capable of.You can do better.Respect from a Man United fan .

vlafy wrote:I expect more from you (rwo power and The Messiah) and that's exactly because I know you and what you are capable of.You can do better.Respect from a Man United fan .

I only reported a statement of a pundit on TV in reply to Arqui's pundit comment. What of the things I wrote was erroneous?

rwo power wrote:I only reported a statement of a pundit on TV in reply to Arqui's pundit comment. What of the things I wrote was erroneous?

I wasn't talking only about that post.Never mind.Forget it.

vlafy wrote:

rwo power wrote:I only reported a statement of a pundit on TV in reply to Arqui's pundit comment. What of the things I wrote was erroneous?

I wasn't talking only about that post.Never mind.Forget it.

First of All I didn't say Schalke 04 or Dortmund are the best team in the world, but certainly currently they are a better team than all Seria A club except for Juventus.


I mean it's objective to say that, not long ago Schalke were in the semi final, so tell me when last Milan was there or even Juventus, Roma, Lazio, Napoli and the rest of them lots.


I don't intend to disrespect any club, but last season 2 Bundesliga club made it to the quarter final of of Europa cup while only Udinese made it to round of 16 and were easily eliminated..


In Champions league Bayern made it to the final and all Italian teams were eliminated in quarter final, it's obvious Bundesliga earned it.

The Messiah wrote:

vlafy wrote:

rwo power wrote:I only reported a statement of a pundit on TV in reply to Arqui's pundit comment. What of the things I wrote was erroneous?

I wasn't talking only about that post.Never mind.Forget it.

First of All I didn't say Schalke 04 or Dortmund are the best team in the world, but certainly currently they are a better team than all Seria A club except for Juventus.


I mean it's objective to say that, not long ago Schalke were in the semi final, so tell me when last Milan was there or even Juventus, Roma, Lazio, Napoli and the rest of them lots.


I am don't intend to disrespect any club, but last season 2 Bundesliga club made it to the quarter final of of Europa cup while only Udinese made it to round of 16 and were easily eliminated..


In Champions league Bayern made it to the final and all Italian teams were eliminated in quarter final, it's obvious Bundesliga earned it.

Yet you conveniently forget how that Inter beat Bayern Munich to get through to Schalke. Inter were beaten by Schalke mostly because they had an injury ridden and out of form squad.

You also conveniently miss out on how 2 German teams reached the Knockout stage while 3 Italian teams reached. Bayern went through yet were they really tested by a poor Basel and Marsielle? Nonetheless I will agree that Bayern did deserve to go through against Madrid despite what the RM fans said. The final also was unfortunate.

rwo power wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Its what you called a fuzzy logic fallacy. Such a point system is criticized by many many pundits and analysts alike.

It always depends on which pundits you listen to, I guess.

Yesterday, the mighty Peter Neururer proclaimed on TV in a football talk that obviously the Bundesliga is the strongest league of them all and a match like Stoke vs Bolton is at best 2nd BL quality

Well naturally the German populace aren't exactly going to be unhappy with such a system given that they are best using it to its advantage. Doesn't mean its not flawed lol.

Saying BL is the strongest is bold, but I would agree that lower BL and midtable matches are far better than lower and midtable PL matches which have poor quality of football and tactics.

Bayern had a better team than Inter, we were in crisis otherwise we would have eliminated Inter easily , you simply have to look at their performance against Schalke afterwards, but nevertheless Schalke are so under-rated, the team is full of good home-grown players.


They have managed to re-employ their best manager, I am so happy that sooner rather than Later Schalke will Join Bayern and Dortmund as a dominant team, Bundesliga really do need that and on-top of that, I have a feeling that all 3 Bundesliga club can top their group regardless of Madrid, City, Arsenal or Valencia.



Apart from Juventus, I am doubting if Milan can make it out of their group.

The Messiah wrote:Bayern had a better team than Inter, we were in crisis otherwise we would have eliminated Inter easily , you simply have to look at their performance against Schalke afterwards, but nevertheless Schalke are so under-rated, the team is full of good home-grown players.


They have managed to re-employ their best manager, I am so happy that sooner rather than Later Schalke will Join Bayern and Dortmund as a dominant team, Bundesliga really do need that and on-top of that, I have a feeling that all 3 Bundesliga club can top their group regardless of Madrid, City, Arsenal or Valencia.

Apart from Juventus, I am doubting if Milan can make it out of their group.

That's not an argument, it's much of an excuse.. So can Real Madrid fans say that they were better than you last year (which was not the case)..

And apart from Bayern, no bundesliga team reached a high level in the last 10 years

The Messiah wrote:Bayern had a better team than Inter, we were in crisis otherwise we would have eliminated Inter easily , you simply have to look at their performance against Schalke afterwards, but nevertheless Schalke are so under-rated, the team is full of good home-grown players.


They have managed to re-employ their best manager, I am so happy that sooner rather than Later Schalke will Join Bayern and Dortmund as a dominant team, Bundesliga really do need that and on-top of that, I have a feeling that all 3 Bundesliga club can top their group regardless of Madrid, City, Arsenal or Valencia.



Apart from Juventus, I am doubting if Milan can make it out of their group.

Inter switched their manager midway into the season as Bayern loosing to them out of a crisis doesn't really deserve an excuse.

I agree on your points about Schalke as they truly are an impressive team and one of the best run teams in the world.

Juve should be able to make it out. I agree with you on Milan as they are just too poor to make it out of their group.

As we all know, I don't believe that living in the past has any sort of benefit, by any slightest chance if it does then I guess it's save to say it has more detriment than benefit. Milan, Juventus, Inter , Napoli, Lazio and Roma all have fantastic history at some point, especially Juventus and Milan's, but that was then, they made their mark in Europe but they simply can not coup any more with the high standard they set for themselves.#


Bundesliga are the present, they have risen as a club and currently as we can see, both Schalke and Dortmund has improved greatly over the years, all Bundesliga need now is just another team to rise up, I would like to say a team like Leverkusen or BMG, between one of them.



I respect Seria A, they did all they could in the past but now they simply are not living up to expectation and they should be wary about Ligue 1 or Portugal league not catching up with them, they are playing below par and seriously need to sort out themselves, on the pitch, in finance, attendance, as well as match fixing.

The Messiah wrote:As we all know, I don't believe that living in the past has any sort of benefit, by any slightest chance if it does then I guess it's save to say it has more detriment than benefit. Milan, Juventus, Inter , Napoli, Lazio and Roma all have fantastic history at some point, especially Juventus and Milan's, but that was then, they made their mark in Europe but they simply can not coup any more with the high standard they set for themselves.#


Bundesliga are the present, they have risen as a club and currently as we can see, both Schalke and Dortmund has improved greatly over the years, all Bundesliga need now is just another team to rise up, I would like to say a team like Leverkusen or BMG, between one of them.



I respect Seria A, they did all they could in the past but now they simply are not living up to expectation and they should be wary about Ligue 1 or Portugal league not catching up with them, they are playing below par and seriously need to sort out themselves, on the pitch, in finance, attendance, as well as match fixing.

The present is not Bundesliga, it's still Spain(i hate too say that), but their dopping system is to good, even if Bundesliga teams have a much healthier financial system, you can't match that..

I respect your opinion, but for me Serie A it's the 2nd best league in the world... So has been said about Germany and Holland to win euro 2012,and they didn't... I see no real arguments to consider anyone except Bayern (who I considered the best team in the world last season) from bundesliga to fight with the big teams in Europe... Last year Serie A had 3 teams in the 1/8 finals, Italy played Euro final with Serie A players, i still have reasons to say we are better.. uefa coefficients means nothing

I don't agree with you about the past... it means a lot.. Isn't curious that is always teams like Bayern, Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man united, Juventus, Arsenal, iNter... NTs like Brasil, Italy, Germany, Argentine, England, Spain, France who always fight for titles?

The Messiah wrote:Bundesliga are the present, they have risen as a club and currently as we can see, both Schalke and Dortmund has improved greatly over the years, all Bundesliga need now is just another team to rise up, I would like to say a team like Leverkusen or BMG, between one of them.

Actually I have high hopes in Hannover 96 at the moment. BMG first have to recover after the loss of their axis Dante/Neustädter/Reus.

Bundesliga only have 1 elite club.

Yohan Modric wrote:Bundesliga only have 1 elite club.

Well, we will see if that is still the case after the CL group stage this time ^^

rwo power wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Bundesliga only have 1 elite club.

Well, we will see if that is still the case after the CL group stage this time ^^

I don't think he was talking about passing the group stage when he said "elite"...

tuddor wrote:

rwo power wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Bundesliga only have 1 elite club.

Well, we will see if that is still the case after the CL group stage this time ^^

I don't think he was talking about passing the group stage when he said "elite"...

I was thinking of Dortmund likely not being pushovers vs Real Madrid and ManCity ^^

We are not talking about the past, lets look forward into the future currently would you say Milan/Inter etc has a better team than Dortmund or Schalke 04..? No


Also the future looks bright for Dortmund and Schalke, whereas Milan/Inter are still expected to fall more, their team is full of old players.

Wow, all 3 German teams won.
Both Italian teams didn't.

wow, stuttgart steaua 2-2, ael - some german team 0 -0...

When Germany's NT will beat ITaly only one time in euro or world cup, i will consider comapring the two countries soccer...it's a joke comparing inter, milan, napoli with stuttgart, schalke, werder, monchengladbac...

tuddor wrote:wow, stuttgart steaua 2-2, ael - some german team 0 -0...

lol, the popular argument was that the coefficient ranking is failed because it values the EL too much compared to the CL and thats why germany got the 4th cl spot.
Right now italian teams profit from this.
at least be consistent with the arguments please


the whole bit**ing is ridiculous anyway. The coefficent system is more or less the same in decades without anyone complaining. Now just because serie a teams simply didnt perform as well in eurpean competitions like they did in the past (for whatever reason) the system is all of a sudden super-unfair?

udine couldnt even qualify against Braga, does anyone really think they would've been successful in the cl?

Juve,Inter & Liverpool still hold the record for amount of EL titles...
but no one really wants them tbh

ELO wrote:

tuddor wrote:wow, stuttgart steaua 2-2, ael - some german team 0 -0...

lol, the popular argument was that the coefficient ranking is failed because it values the EL too much compared to the CL and thats why germany got the 4th cl spot.
Right now italian teams profit from this.
at least be consistent with the arguments please


the whole bit**ing is ridiculous anyway. The coefficent system is more or less the same in decades without anyone complaining. Now just because serie a teams simply didnt perform as well in eurpean competitions like they did in the past (for whatever reason) the system is all of a sudden super-unfair?

udine couldnt even qualify against Braga, does anyone really think they would've been successful in the cl?

i was responding to someone's reply...Anyway, every fan of strong leagues believe that their league it's the best, so it's a useless debate

sorry dude, i thought you might've been interested in a debate about the actual topic of the thread and not only debating the madman theories of "the messiah"

Well, right now we had..

CL: Germany 3 wins - Italy 2 draws
EL: Germany: 4 draws - Italy: 3 draws, 1 win

So looks like Italy still didn't manage to capitalize much of the current German EL weakness.

rwo power wrote:Well, right now we had..

CL: Germany 3 wins - Italy 2 draws
EL: Germany: 4 draws - Italy: 3 draws, 1 win

So looks like Italy still didn't manage to capitalize much of the current German EL weakness.

So did you discreetly hope for this thread to morph into an Italia v Germany thread? Because that's what has turned into.

Arquitecto wrote:

rwo power wrote:Well, right now we had..

CL: Germany 3 wins - Italy 2 draws
EL: Germany: 4 draws - Italy: 3 draws, 1 win

So looks like Italy still didn't manage to capitalize much of the current German EL weakness.

So did you discreetly hope for this thread to morph into an Italia v Germany thread? Because that's what has turned into.

You started it my dear friend and now you can not take the heat, but be patience, there are still more games at hand, you never know, Bayern, Dortmund and Schalke can all get eliminated out of their groups and Milan and Juventus will progress, you win some and lose some, Bundesliga won this week, maybe next time will be your(sorry wishful thinking, because it's not gonna happen) lol