Re: Chelsea - Juventus: CL Group Stage

by Onyx Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:10 pm

Shakhtar could cause an upset imo.

by S Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:38 pm

A draw at Stamford Bridge would be a fantastic result.I'd consider a draw as 3 points tbh.Anything above that is a bonus.

by Raptorgunner Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:38 pm

Will be a great game to watch, going with a 2-2.

by Tomwin Lannister Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:41 pm

shakthar away can be a difficult tie I agree. But anything less than 6 points from NJ for both Juve and Chelsea should be looked at as poor.

by Arquitecto Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:33 pm

Some of the Chelsea fans here make Mole look as positive as my mother. Laughing

As some fellow posters remember I predicted a great upset for Juventus in their game vs Chelsea.

You see not only is it at Stamford Bridge but Juve are going through a temporary crisis here. For all there results and victories so far this year they are severely lacking Conte's presence of the touchline. Carrera has been tactically sound and performances have been good but not up to Juve's standards last year. They look more sluggish, less motivated or just not as sharp as last year. They are lacking confidence at the moment. Conte's fiery leadership will be so greatly missed because here is a team who hasn't smelled Champions League futbol in years along with most of their players. They naturally will have more reluctance in their stride, wobbles in their pass and Massimo Oddo-ness in their shots. You won't see the swashbuckling and tactically superb Juve of last year but a more rusty and subdued Juve.

Biggest problem is all there strikers confidence is shot to pieces (bar the Bruschetta and Provolone fueled Nick Bendtner). Matri is a shadow of his former self and wonder boy Quags is unfit. Vucinic is not a striker while Giovinco can do everything except finish.

I expect a nervy performance from Juve and Chelsea to win 2-0.

2-0.

by white_star Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:45 pm

I think Juve a in pretty good form judging from seria A. They might not look at their best but they are still doing great. To me Chelsea does not look convincing at all. I personally think the coach is the problem because that team is packe with talent. The best result for Juve would be a tie away at Stamford bridge. I would really like for Juve to win!

by zizzle Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:46 pm

Juvi will be suspect from the wings so it would be interesting how they'd line up their midfield to counter that. Talent wise there isnt much separating the two teams so tactics should make the difference in this one.

by Arquitecto Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:49 pm

white_star wrote:I think Juve a in pretty good form judging from seria A. They might not look at their best but they are still doing great. To me Chelsea does not look convincing at all. I personally think the coach is the problem because that team is packe with talent. The best result for Juve would be a tie away at Stamford bridge. I would really like for Juve to win!

Fair points White Star. As impressive and legitimate their results have been in the Serie A, all Calcio viewers agree a lot is off about them as it doesn't only spur from their poor strike force.

I predict the Juve loss because having Chelsea in SB as their first European CL match will have something new feeling for them as they will need at least a year to truly be a force in Europe. They will need time to re-adapt while Chelsea are relatively comfortable in Europe.

by iNFINITY9910 Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:49 pm

Juve will just destroy the Chelsea midfield, our midfield is not even close to being a proper midfield. Pirlo to carry the team, unless Lampsy steps up the game and play properly. And Torres getting it past Buffon is just a myth lol. So Juve to win, on agg at least.

by S Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

zizzle wrote:Juvi will be suspect from the wings

And why do you think so ?I think its one of the strongest positions in our team tbh.Lichtsteiner and Asamoah have done a fantastic job on the flanks so far.

If anything i'm worried about Barzagli's form.He has been underwhelming this season so far and looked extremely suspect in the last game.

by S Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:57 pm

Also Giovinco-Vucinic is pretty decent frontline.I wont necessarily call our frontline as 'poor'.

by Arquitecto Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:01 pm

Surag wrote:Also Giovinco-Vucinic is pretty decent frontline.I wont necessarily call our frontline as 'poor'.

Read above as more specifically I mean poor in terms of finishing the bevy of chances made by Marchisio and Pirlo. As well as being low on form.

I already said Vucinic isn't a goalscorer but more of a clutch goalscorer and creator. Giovinco is more of a 10 than a striker. Keep in mind I'm talking about the strike force.

by Die Borussen Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:11 pm

should be pretty obvious how the game will fare,
going to be another barca-chelsea clash style but with juve struggling to create chances.. just keeping the ball and losing it to get it back again.
could and probably will be one of the most boring top club european matches.

on the other hand things will be kinda different when each of these two meet shakhtar where both will pretend and act like the stronger club until the unexpected happens and
boom! shakhtar beats both

by Tomwin Lannister Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:18 pm

Ninis wrote:should be pretty obvious how the game will fare,
going to be another barca-chelsea clash style but with juve struggling to create chances.. just keeping the ball and losing it to get it back again.
could and probably will be one of the most boring top club european matches.

on the other hand things will be kinda different when each of these two meet shakhtar where both will pretend and act like the stronger club until the unexpected happens and
boom! shakhtar beats both

you keep going out of your way to mock Juve. And Juventus/Chelsea are stronger than shakhtar. I don't even know how that's up for debate.

by Ion Creanga Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:42 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Some of the Chelsea fans here make Mole look as positive as my mother.

As some fellow posters remember I predicted a great upset for Juventus in their game vs Chelsea.

You see not only is it at Stamford Bridge but Juve are going through a temporary crisis here. For all there results and victories so far this year they are severely lacking Conte's presence of the touchline. Carrera has been tactically sound and performances have been good but not up to Juve's standards last year. They look more sluggish, less motivated or just not as sharp as last year. They are lacking confidence at the moment. Conte's fiery leadership will be so greatly missed because here is a team who hasn't smelled Champions League futbol in years along with most of their players. They naturally will have more reluctance in their stride, wobbles in their pass and Massimo Oddo-ness in their shots. You won't see the swashbuckling and tactically superb Juve of last year but a more rusty and subdued Juve.

Biggest problem is all there strikers confidence is shot to pieces (bar the Bruschetta and Provolone fueled Nick Bendtner). Matri is a shadow of his former self and wonder boy Quags is unfit. Vucinic is not a striker while Giovinco can do everything except finish.

I expect a nervy performance from Juve and Chelsea to win 2-0.

2-0.

Marchisio, Buffon, Pirlo, Bonucci, Barzagli, Chiellini (even Giaccherini with spain ) played important matches for the best european national team in the history (4 world cups, 2 2nd places)... I don't think they lack experience at the highest level, they had some good games against England, Germany, Spain (1st match) national teams that are at the same level with the biggest european clubs..

Conte will be a big absence, carrera maybe a good tactician, but Conte's leading and motivational spirit and enthusiasm will be missed

by Luca Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:07 pm

Arquitecto wrote:
Surag wrote:Also Giovinco-Vucinic is pretty decent frontline.I wont necessarily call our frontline as 'poor'.

Read above as more specifically I mean poor in terms of finishing the bevy of chances made by Marchisio and Pirlo. As well as being low on form.

I already said Vucinic isn't a goalscorer but more of a clutch goalscorer and creator. Giovinco is more of a 10 than a striker. Keep in mind I'm talking about the strike force.

I disagree completely about Vucinic. He is a very capable goalscorer and he can create. He has played as a lone striker for Juventus before and done well, he has played on the left wing of the 4-3-3 numerous times but for me, he is best as a striker with a free role.

He has started the season so well for Juventus and I just expect him to build on that.

It's natural to assume that Juventus will be nervous, I just don't see it being the case beyond the first half. I rate Chelsea highly, I mean, I see some people expecting a comfortable win for Juve and I just can't see it, this is a different level.

I think though Arq, you're assuming the absolutely worse when talking about Juventus in this match.

You're assuming they'll be nervous, there's nothing really to support that and they have a number of veteran players who have played in a number of big matches.

You're talking about their attack struggling to score, well this season that hasn't been the case. Vucinic and Giovinco have been in pretty fine form thus far. Not to mention the wing play from Asamoah and Lichtsteiner has been superb and I expect them to shine on Wednesday, if that is the approach.

It's not in Conte's mentality to really go out there and play for a draw, if that is what ends up happening, and Juventus puts in a subdued performance then I'll be really disappointed.

If it comes down to talent versus experience then I'll always choose talent. We know that this Juventus team has a lot of talent, we'll see if they put that into effect.

I agree with you about Conte's absence being a blow though, tough for morale. He brings that extra step to the team.

by RED Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:09 pm

I really think Juve will pull off a win. 0-1.

Would have liked to watch this, but it's on at the same time as the United match...

by Luca Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:15 pm

RED wrote:I really think Juve will pull off a win. 0-1.

Would have liked to watch this, but it's on at the same time as the United match...

I'm going to miss the first 20 minutes because of class
And I have to miss tomorrow's matches for the same reason Sad

by Blue Barrett Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 pm

Bear-Felix wrote:Genuinely don't think we'll get out of this group.

Chelsea - Juventus: CL Group Stage - Page 2 OpoQQ

by donttreadonred Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:02 am

I'm so excited for this match, it's stupid. banana

In any case, I would expect something similar to Napoli/Chelsea than Barca/Chelsea. Juve will come out looking to assert themselves, control the play, and obviously score. Chelsea will be more likely to sit back and adsorb the pressure and break with the wide players on the counter. (This isn't the typical slam on Chelsea defending with ten men; it's just a tactical observation.)

The squad selection will be interesting for Juventus. Their established starting back-line all played the full 90 on Sunday. This may give Lucio an opportunity at mid-week. Additionally, I can see Caceres and Deceglie benched for the more attacking Asamoah and Lichtensteiner. Giovinco is another player that played the full ninety against Genoa. If he is replaced, I'm hoping it's by Quags, as I do not trust Bendtner. Vucinic will obviously start, as he started on the bench for the previous match.
----------Vucinic-Quags
Asamoah-Marchisio-Vidal-Lichtensteiner
---------------Pirlo
------Chiellini-Lucio-Barzagli

Chelsea should try to play as much pace and quality on the wings as possible. Therefore, even though he's taken the #10 position recently, I think Hazard should start on the left. Play Mata in the center and Ramires on the right. Ramires is has the speed to get behind the Juve Midfield and finish a chance, as he should last year against Napoli and Barca. Haard is precisely the type of wide player that could give Juve's 3-5-2 fits. Should Torres and Mata have a good game too, Juve could be in real trouble.
-------Torres
-Hazard-Mata-Ramires
--Lampard-Mikel
Cole-Cahill-Terry-Ivanovic

Looking forward to a good match.

by lszanto Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:50 am

Recent matches don't make me too confident. If we win it will be because of an individual performance not as a team imo.

by iNFINITY9910 Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:12 am

If Sturridge or Moses starts on the right I think it will be a positive match for us, but Ramires is apparently a winger now..

by Arquitecto Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:16 am

tuddor wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Some of the Chelsea fans here make Mole look as positive as my mother.

As some fellow posters remember I predicted a great upset for Juventus in their game vs Chelsea.

You see not only is it at Stamford Bridge but Juve are going through a temporary crisis here. For all there results and victories so far this year they are severely lacking Conte's presence of the touchline. Carrera has been tactically sound and performances have been good but not up to Juve's standards last year. They look more sluggish, less motivated or just not as sharp as last year. They are lacking confidence at the moment. Conte's fiery leadership will be so greatly missed because here is a team who hasn't smelled Champions League futbol in years along with most of their players. They naturally will have more reluctance in their stride, wobbles in their pass and Massimo Oddo-ness in their shots. You won't see the swashbuckling and tactically superb Juve of last year but a more rusty and subdued Juve.

Biggest problem is all there strikers confidence is shot to pieces (bar the Bruschetta and Provolone fueled Nick Bendtner). Matri is a shadow of his former self and wonder boy Quags is unfit. Vucinic is not a striker while Giovinco can do everything except finish.

I expect a nervy performance from Juve and Chelsea to win 2-0.

2-0.

Marchisio, Buffon, Pirlo, Bonucci, Barzagli, Chiellini (even Giaccherini with spain ) played important matches for the best european national team in the history (4 world cups, 2 2nd places)... I don't think they lack experience at the highest level, they had some good games against England, Germany, Spain (1st match) national teams that are at the same level with the biggest european clubs..

Conte will be a big absence, carrera maybe a good tactician, but Conte's leading and motivational spirit and enthusiasm will be missed

Thats a good point there as I don't doubt there ability to perform in the highest echelons of football. But stepping into the Champions League after a long time brings a different set of expectations and pressures in which I predict will take time for it to be instilled into Juve again. For all I know I could be wrong as lets hope so since I hope Chelsea defeat Juve.

Luca wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:
Surag wrote:Also Giovinco-Vucinic is pretty decent frontline.I wont necessarily call our frontline as 'poor'.

Read above as more specifically I mean poor in terms of finishing the bevy of chances made by Marchisio and Pirlo. As well as being low on form.

I already said Vucinic isn't a goalscorer but more of a clutch goalscorer and creator. Giovinco is more of a 10 than a striker. Keep in mind I'm talking about the strike force.

I disagree completely about Vucinic. He is a very capable goalscorer and he can create. He has played as a lone striker for Juventus before and done well, he has played on the left wing of the 4-3-3 numerous times but for me, he is best as a striker with a free role.

He has started the season so well for Juventus and I just expect him to build on that.

It's natural to assume that Juventus will be nervous, I just don't see it being the case beyond the first half. I rate Chelsea highly, I mean, I see some people expecting a comfortable win for Juve and I just can't see it, this is a different level.

I think though Arq, you're assuming the absolutely worse when talking about Juventus in this match.

You're assuming they'll be nervous, there's nothing really to support that and they have a number of veteran players who have played in a number of big matches.

You're talking about their attack struggling to score, well this season that hasn't been the case. Vucinic and Giovinco have been in pretty fine form thus far. Not to mention the wing play from Asamoah and Lichtsteiner has been superb and I expect them to shine on Wednesday, if that is the approach.

It's not in Conte's mentality to really go out there and play for a draw, if that is what ends up happening, and Juventus puts in a subdued performance then I'll be really disappointed.

If it comes down to talent versus experience then I'll always choose talent. We know that this Juventus team has a lot of talent, we'll see if they put that into effect.

I agree with you about Conte's absence being a blow though, tough for morale. He brings that extra step to the team.

Luca, I already praised Vucinic's goalscoring ability and ability to create. On the goalscoring front though, Vucinic is one who will score when you most need it. A certain mark like the dying minutes of the 90th minute mark or in extra time. I highly rate his ability to create goals from nothing, very much like Quags. Yet I don't rate his ability to be prolific due to some of his finishing inconsistencies as it was the same at Roma. Yes he has improved but in the end he is a SS who is more of a creator than a consistent goalscorer. Giovinco of course has been in fine form. As I mentioned he is capable of serious threat with his two footed trickery and creating ability. Most of his goals like Vucinic come from magic and not pure ability to finish. I mean its a typical Italian system where you have complete forwards up front capable of all except being clinical. Thats how I see Juve this year as they create chance after chance and despite scoring some of the chances created, its not enough in comparison to the proportion of chances created. And in Europe, that can prove fatal. I definitely don't doubt there ability in the other fronts as well as I rate Juve higher tactically and technically yet refer to my doubts on the mentality being projected after stepping into Europe. Already I would have had some minor doubts if Conte was there yet without his direct leadership it will be unpredictable. For all I know Juve could control the game completely and win 3-0. Its just the way I see it now Luca.

by S Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:06 pm

• Juventus have not won on their last 11 competitive outings in England, losing eight and drawing three, including their 2003 UEFA Champions League final penalty shoot-out defeat by AC Milan.

• Juve have triumphed just twice in 19 contests away to English opposition: 2-1 against Aston Villa FC in the 1982/83 European Champion Clubs' Cup quarter-finals and 1-0 at Manchester United FC in the 1996/97 group stage.

by Luca Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:05 pm

@arq

Very good points, fair enough about Vucinic.
I agree, he isn't based on pure finishing but it might take a bit of magic in a game like this. I guess we'll just wait and see

Surag wrote:• Juventus have not won on their last 11 competitive outings in England, losing eight and drawing three, including their 2003 UEFA Champions League final penalty shoot-out defeat by AC Milan.

• Juve have triumphed just twice in 19 contests away to English opposition: 2-1 against Aston Villa FC in the 1982/83 European Champion Clubs' Cup quarter-finals and 1-0 at Manchester United FC in the 1996/97 group stage.

Damn

by donttreadonred Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:47 am

Surag wrote:• Juventus have not won on their last 11 competitive outings in England, losing eight and drawing three, including their 2003 UEFA Champions League final penalty shoot-out defeat by AC Milan.

• Juve have triumphed just twice in 19 contests away to English opposition: 2-1 against Aston Villa FC in the 1982/83 European Champion Clubs' Cup quarter-finals and 1-0 at Manchester United FC in the 1996/97 group stage.

Why did you have to go and bring that up?

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