Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

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Post by huntsman on Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:58 am

@Crimson wrote:Ozil with the assist for the first goal and come up with the equalising goal in the 89', absolute boss.

I commend your "half glass full" view of things, but i am gonna have to be frank with you here; If Kaka played; Madrid wont even have to resort to those type of adrenaline rush moments of gambling.

Think about the next round, the knock out stages, when madrid are going to face real contenders, think about the inevitable. Sure the glass is half full, but there is nothing wrong in risk analysis / management.

A glass half full wont be enough to knock out other teams with a glass completely full and have a 50/50 chance of knocking out teams with a glass half full.

Madrid, Ozil Alonso, Modric, Iker, Mourinho, you name it, right now, the magic is lost. Even 4 - 0 wins are unconvincing these days.


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Post by Roundsquare on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:16 pm

Mourinho made a mistake rating Di Maria over Kaka this season and it cost us the league. It’s time for Mourinho to right his mistake.

Kaka is a better shot taker, a better passer, and has demonstrated his defensive work rate a few times this season, most importantly he is level-headed. The only areas I can think of in which Di Maria has a clear advantage over the Brazillian are speed and dribbling, and then again the Argentine doesn’t always make the best use of both.

For this reason I think Jose should try to fit Modric and Özil/Kaka or even Modric, Kaka and Özil in the same formation. If Chelsea can find the way to play with Mata, Oscar and Hazard behind Fernando Torres, Real Madrid can play with Modric, Kaka and Ozil behind Ronaldo. We have so many creative players and should make the best use of them.

This should be our lineup going forward:
-------Ronaldo
Modric-—Kaka——-Ozil
-———Alsonso—-Khedira——

Or

-----------Benzema
Ronaldo------kaka-------Ozil

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Post by Cyborg on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:33 pm

@Roundsquare wrote:

This should be our lineup going forward:
-------Ronaldo
Modric-—Kaka——-Ozil
-———Alsonso—-Khedira——


idk about following chelsea's tactic and formation but i like this formation
Ronaldo
Kaka---Modric---Ozil
Alsonso—-Khedira

but we can say what formation we like but its the tactics that will make the difference really.

but i think this selection is a good formula. more creativity on the pitch. letting the genuis of the front players work.

Modric, Khedira and Alonso in midfield


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Post by Guest on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm

I posted this on another forum with a debate about Di Maria and Ozils performances of late:

I think for the most part Ozil has been very good recentlywhen he has played though, the Betis performance aside.

He was good in the win over Celta Vigo and very good against Barcelona, not outstanding but did his job. In the loss to Dortmund he could of done better but it wasn't a poor performance by any means. Was exceptional in the 5 nil win over Mallorca again in the win against Zaragoza and the draw with Dortmund. Levante game was a right off no matter how you look at it considering the conditions. Again exceptional against Bilbao.

Before this run of games he hardly got any playing time.

His only really sub par performance recently is against Betis and even then there were far worse culprits.

Now concerning the average positions Ronaldo has come across a lot more so than previously and his average position in games is more central ahead of Benzema. Benzema, Ronaldo and Ozil are almost all occupying the exact same space which has pushed Ozil further back than last year. He is still performing well but he does not have the same space he once did.

Di Maria seems to be the only player given a lot more freedom and room on his side of the pitch to play the way he wants. But his average position has moved a lot closer to Ozil and Benzema, in the draw against Dortmund, Di Maria and Ozil are literally on top of Higuain in the average position chart and the space simply is not being utilized effectively.

Why don't we just put Ronaldo as a CF (basically is anyway) and position the players behind him accordingly which would solve alot of issues with space and being too predictable in attack.

Cristiano Ronaldo is averaging 7.1 shots per game atm, compared to the next highest in Higuain with 2.5 (Benzema 1.9). What is the point of trying to play Higuain and Benzema as CF's?

Compared to other CF's in La Liga?
Falcao 3.7; Messi 5.2; Negredo; 3.9;

Even Pedro Leon is getting more shots off per game than what we create for Higuain, let alone Benzema.

There is no space for another CF and the way Ronaldo is playing tactically atm. For what reason I have no idea. Play Ronaldo as CF and set up everyone behind him accordingly with space, rather than him playing on top of everyone else and making our attack as predictable as stale bread.

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Post by Cyborg on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:55 pm

@Crimson wrote:
There is no space for another CF and the way Ronaldo is playing tactically atm. For what reason I have no idea. Play Ronaldo as CF and set up everyone behind him accordingly with space, rather than him playing on top of everyone else and making our attack as predictable as stale bread.

the thing is once ronaldo starts to play as the main striker, either benzema or higuain will leave as ronaldo will remain as that main striker. i think

as you said with the shot statistics, i think he will be much more effective there. he is hungry to score and has all the attributes to be a great centre forward whether he likes it or not.

ozil is so key to the team performing right now, its not even funny. its so visible. we need him even if he is not at his best.

Ronaldo
Kaka-- --Ozil
Modric -- Khedira
Alsonso

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Post by Donuts on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:49 pm

Not trolling, serious question.
But do you guys really believe Ronaldo plays better in the CF spot, or main striker? Compared to wing
He has pace, and jumps very well, but as far as positioning and handling small spaces with much more defenders that are usually his height if not taller and stronger, wouldn't that lower his game?
He is amazing in the wing because he usually only has to deal with one defender or two in those strange occasions, but placing him in the middle surrounds him with a possible of 3-4 men marking him, making him dribble and pass more (which seem to be his some of lower attributes compared to teammates, Ozil or Di Maria)
I can see him as a good target man but wouldn't that just be a waste of a good player?

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Post by Le Samourai on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:56 pm

@Cyborg wrote:
@Crimson wrote:
There is no space for another CF and the way Ronaldo is playing tactically atm. For what reason I have no idea. Play Ronaldo as CF and set up everyone behind him accordingly with space, rather than him playing on top of everyone else and making our attack as predictable as stale bread.

the thing is once ronaldo starts to play as the main striker, either benzema or higuain will leave as ronaldo will remain as that main striker. i think

as you said with the shot statistics, i think he will be much more effective there. he is hungry to score and has all the attributes to be a great centre forward whether he likes it or not.

ozil is so key to the team performing right now, its not even funny. its so visible. we need him even if he is not at his best.

Ronaldo
Kaka-- --Ozil
Modric -- Khedira
Alsonso

Kaka will not play ahead of Benzema in any attacking position. Moving him would constrict Higuain's minutes more than anything, but Higuain is capable of playing on the wing and he will find a way.

If he can't he will leave.

Which is unfortunate.

Also Ozil has been underwhelming. I don't see how you can say we are dependent on Ozil when he's doing very little of note at the moment. In 2 seasons I haven't seen him add a single thing to his game, which frankly is disappointing. I'm on the cusp of labelling him more Guti than Zidane. which is unfortunate because I've been saying the team should be run through him (and Benzema) for quite a while.

And while I do believe he would be much improved if play was run through him, that's the case of other players in the squad as well.
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Post by Cyborg on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:58 am

@Le Samourai wrote:
Also Ozil has been underwhelming. I don't see how you can say we are dependent on Ozil when he's doing very little of note at the moment. In 2 seasons I haven't seen him add a single thing to his game, which frankly is disappointing. I'm on the cusp of labelling him more Guti than Zidane. which is unfortunate because I've been saying the team should be run through him (and Benzema) for quite a while.

And while I do believe he would be much improved if play was run through him, that's the case of other players in the squad as well.

To me, ozil makes the attack tick, for Real Madrid and Germany. when plays are running through him things tend to happen and he makes a lot of players look good.

that why i said that we need him, when he is not playing well we seem to lack that creative spark, even though nine other stars are on the pitch.

Yes, he has not been at his best this season, but i dont knw who can provide what he does and has been doing for the past two seasons.

modric? he played in that position a couple of times and he doesnt offer the same, he is better in the middle of the pitch.

plus, i dont think you can blame the player for not developing and becoming even better in this case. thats just my opinion, because he had an exceptional first season. maybe it the coach, maybe its the tactics. what did you want him to add to his game?

kaka may not be chosen before benzema but its a thought. it may not happen in reality, but its a thought. ronaldo as a striker with ozil and kaka in support. forget would happen under mourinho right now, dont you think it would be a good combination, at least on paper.

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Post by Pedram on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:06 am

Not only Ozil has failed to develop his game, he's also losing some of his qualities. i don't care what's the reason behind this but he doesn't have the same vision, he misplaces many passes and most importantly he can hardly dribble anyone something which he was quite good at in his first year at Madrid.
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Post by FalcaoPunch on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:27 am

Both are poor this season.
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Post by alexander mahone on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:42 am

Mind you this poor Ozil this season still had several excellent games like Crimson mentioning. Also still the one who made a difference in Dortmund game where the rest of our so called consistent players failed to do so, also still the one who knows to consistently create goals againt Barca which just unmatch by anyone else in the team.

Saying he showed nothing more since his first season is just far from accurate. If anything his second season was far more impressive than his first season for many reasons. His run of performances in the second half of last season was the best he ever showed with madrid and his CDR game vs Barca at Camp Nou was arguable the best individual performance from our current players.
It's true he had a slow start back then, but it's not really surprising as Mou kept subbing him out and benching him as soon as he had 2 less stellar games in a row, not allowing him to build up his form or adjust properly. Even worse, when things went wrong like in the lost vs Barca at Bernabeu, the draw vs Racing, he's unfairly being singled out by his own coach, being critized publicly despite he's barely the most underferforming one iin those games, this was the same coach who everytime defended Lass, Coentrao, Ronaldo, anyone. The only players who's been treated with such a disrespect were only Benzema back then and Kaka, but Benzema & kaka were barely key players when being treated that way. If anything, the way Ozil able to turn thing aroung in second half after such crap he's getting was deserved even more credit.

What happened so far this season was pretty much the rewind of what happen last season. Don't expect him to magically dramatically improved in the second half of the season like last season. The only reason that's work out last season was because he actually getting all the time he needed to build up his form when he's pretty much playing all the minutes in second half of the season due to Di Maria's injury.
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Post by Nedved on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:42 pm

I think the main problem with our midfield players is we have too many of them . Although it is a luxury few can afford but at times it can be a bane as it the case of RM now. When all the players are competing for mins, it gets tough for players to find a rhythm. Kaka & Ozil are suffering for the same reason. Ozil not doubt had a dip in form this year, but adding Modric added to his insecurity. Life is tough at RM. Either you stand out with your performance , no matter the competition or you stand out and this is RM for you. As far as I see in Mou eyes - few of our Midfield players including Ozil are in grey area unfortunately.
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