how good has Mata gotten?

dostoevsky wrote:Guys, calm down, there's no point getting upset over something like this.

This should NOT require repeating.

tuddor wrote:Dnmac 4, your arguments for Mata not being at iniesta's level is that Barca and Real didn't purchase him because it's not at their level?? So Juve thought about Henry when they sold him to Arsenal... And who are you to say what a player can do and what he can't? Are you Jesus Christ?

I'm not judging iniesta on stats, i've seen an amazing Mata at Chelsea this season...And who are you to judge EPL players that poor compared to La liga?? I remember chelsea eliminating barca in 10 men, so it's not like they're CFR Cluj or some poor team in the UCL. Being the best player at Chelsea means something. And based on what is iniesta much better than mata? What aspects of his game are miles ahead of Mata's? Because you make it look like Mata is a mediocre footballer compared to a God.

I can see what your saying but it also looks like your thinking Mata is better than Iniesta. Please hope not...

Dnmac4 wrote:

You are jerking off over a patch of form and it's obvious you didn't watch him before because you don't even remember last year when in some of the most important games Chelsea played Di Matteo didn't even start him.

What games? Enlighten me.

FA Cup Semi - Check

Fa Cup Final - Check

CL Napoli second leg - Check

CL Quarters both legs - Check

CL Semis both legs - Check

CL Final - Check

Dnmac4 wrote:

julias wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

julias wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

tuddor wrote:MR Nick09, why is the comparison with iniesta laughable at the moment? I mean, both are two of the best in their position, mata has better speed, iniesta does better in close spaces, both have great vision, ball control and passing, not to mention mata's shots, who actually can score from free kick too... He was a monster this season with Chelsea, he also has the physical ability to make pressing better than iniesta (see tottenham game, where he absolutley dominated walker)..
Overall iniesta has more experience and played a lot more games at the highest level, but Mata is becoming a player who can reach his level.

Well I guess I'll chime in here. First of all you didn't say Mata is becoming a player who can reach his level you said he is as good as Iniesta. Which is just wrong. And no he will never reach Iniesta's level.

Second, I think you may be forgetting that if Barca or Madrid wanted him they would have had him by now. They know how good he is and so does VDB and there is no team on the face of the earth that would pass up a shot at buying Iniesta for 25 million bucks.

Any scout or GM would kick Juan Mata of there team so fast it would make your head spin to get Iniesta. Let's put it this way When playing with Villa and Silva they were a class above Mata and still are. When comparing him to Iniesta there not a class apart there worlds apart.

I mean you do realize you are saying this when Iniesta just won UEFA's Best Player in Europe award for 2012, right?????

Third, if players like Silva, Mata, Torres, Cazorla, Arteta, Alonso etc can take the EPL by storm by running there teams midfield then why would you think Iniesta being thought of as a top 5 player in the world wouldn't do the exact same and just destroy the league to levels none of these players can achieve?

I think you're forgetting in the EPL there are only a couple players like him in the whole league so he stands out more in La Liga there are players with his types of skills all over the place.

Fourth, you should never judge Iniesta on stats. It's pretty much the biggest mistake you can make. Just because someone has better stats then Iniesta doesn't mean there even fit to carry his boots. HE is not judged that way as you can see by being named the best player in Europe by UEFA this year and twice making the final 3 of the Balon D'or voting.

Something IMO Juan Mata will never ever achieve. Does that clear it up?

Show me that Crystal ball son cos with those predictions skills you should have won the lottery a thousand times over no?

How do you know Mata will never reach that level the mans 24ish and you DON'T know what the future holds so stop with that BS

On a more relevant note however Mata is nowhere near Iniesta's level and it is unlikely he will achieve but to say never is to show ignorance.

Mata though has improved and is a lot more decisive for Chelsea, I do think sometimes though he can be hussled out of possesion if pressed quite aggresively. On the whole the though the dude is showing his class even more this season no doubt.

I'm the one who's ignorant yet you say how can I say Mata will never be as good as Iniesta and follow that statement right up with this gem,

"On a more relevant note however Mata is nowhere near Iniesta's level and it is unlikely he will achieve."

I mean that is the most cowardly post I think I have ever seen. Jesus, take a stance it's pretty obvious, don't hedge everything you say, try growing a pair I mean your probably like 14 so I don't know why I expect anything more from this board.

I know Mata won't be as good as Iniesta because unlike slow EPLers like you and Gil I have watched him for a very long time not a little over a year and I'm not jerking off over a good patch of form. I have seen him play numerous times next to Iniesta and against him and it couldn't be more obvious that he will never be one of the best players in the world.

But with you EPLers I bet you thought at one point Lampard and Gerrard were some of the best players in the world so there really is no talking any sense into you guys who just now found out that Santi Cazorla was good at football and not a winger.

Iniesta has been in a good patch of form for about the last 5 years. And Guess what Iniesta is right up there with the Messi's and Xavi's and Ronaldo's of the world and Mata won't be better then any of them either, you wan't to be dumb enough to argue that too?

Man stfu my argument is that you CANT tell the future or are you going to basically tell me in a thousand word rant that you can.

My stance is that Mata is nowhere nears Iniesta's level but how can you predict the future and tell me he will NEVER be. You said NEVER or do you just type shit and not realise.

Who told you I wasn't watching Mata in La Liga? Who said I'm jerking off over a good patch of form? Who told you I thought Steven Gerrard and Lampard were the best players in the world? Who told you I didn't know about Santi Carzola?

That post right there shows how much of a dumb *bleep* you really are, since I made no mention of any of that bs you're posting.

Keep typing your thousand word posts full of BS if it makes you feel better dickhead.

Because it's quite possibly the easiest thing in the world to predict.

You are jerking off over a patch of form and it's obvious you didn't watch him before because you don't even remember last year when in some of the most important games Chelsea played Di Matteo didn't even start him.

You couldn't be more blind I mean you're acting like Mata is 18 years old or something. He has been playing top flight football for a long time in the CL and La Liga and for Spain.

He is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that but who he is isn't Andres Iniesta and he never will be again it is really quite obvious. He would never have left Spain if the 2 best teams in the world with 2 of the best youth systems and scouts and have tons of money thought he was going to be the next Andres Iniesta they would have bought him for 25 mill bucks.

They don't think he's Barca or Madrid Material and quite frankly he's not, as both there midfields have no room for him.

Andres Iniesta is a once in a generation player Juan Mata is not. I mean how dull can you be?

Flipping heck you actually can't read lol

And the fact that you are telling me you can predict the future confirms your stupidity.

Don't worry now I know why you post such garbage lol

Dnmac4 wrote:

julias wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

julias wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

tuddor wrote:MR Nick09, why is the comparison with iniesta laughable at the moment? I mean, both are two of the best in their position, mata has better speed, iniesta does better in close spaces, both have great vision, ball control and passing, not to mention mata's shots, who actually can score from free kick too... He was a monster this season with Chelsea, he also has the physical ability to make pressing better than iniesta (see tottenham game, where he absolutley dominated walker)..
Overall iniesta has more experience and played a lot more games at the highest level, but Mata is becoming a player who can reach his level.

Well I guess I'll chime in here. First of all you didn't say Mata is becoming a player who can reach his level you said he is as good as Iniesta. Which is just wrong. And no he will never reach Iniesta's level.

Second, I think you may be forgetting that if Barca or Madrid wanted him they would have had him by now. They know how good he is and so does VDB and there is no team on the face of the earth that would pass up a shot at buying Iniesta for 25 million bucks.

Any scout or GM would kick Juan Mata of there team so fast it would make your head spin to get Iniesta. Let's put it this way When playing with Villa and Silva they were a class above Mata and still are. When comparing him to Iniesta there not a class apart there worlds apart.

I mean you do realize you are saying this when Iniesta just won UEFA's Best Player in Europe award for 2012, right?????

Third, if players like Silva, Mata, Torres, Cazorla, Arteta, Alonso etc can take the EPL by storm by running there teams midfield then why would you think Iniesta being thought of as a top 5 player in the world wouldn't do the exact same and just destroy the league to levels none of these players can achieve?

I think you're forgetting in the EPL there are only a couple players like him in the whole league so he stands out more in La Liga there are players with his types of skills all over the place.

Fourth, you should never judge Iniesta on stats. It's pretty much the biggest mistake you can make. Just because someone has better stats then Iniesta doesn't mean there even fit to carry his boots. HE is not judged that way as you can see by being named the best player in Europe by UEFA this year and twice making the final 3 of the Balon D'or voting.

Something IMO Juan Mata will never ever achieve. Does that clear it up?

Show me that Crystal ball son cos with those predictions skills you should have won the lottery a thousand times over no?

How do you know Mata will never reach that level the mans 24ish and you DON'T know what the future holds so stop with that BS

On a more relevant note however Mata is nowhere near Iniesta's level and it is unlikely he will achieve but to say never is to show ignorance.

Mata though has improved and is a lot more decisive for Chelsea, I do think sometimes though he can be hussled out of possesion if pressed quite aggresively. On the whole the though the dude is showing his class even more this season no doubt.

I'm the one who's ignorant yet you say how can I say Mata will never be as good as Iniesta and follow that statement right up with this gem,

"On a more relevant note however Mata is nowhere near Iniesta's level and it is unlikely he will achieve."

I mean that is the most cowardly post I think I have ever seen. Jesus, take a stance it's pretty obvious, don't hedge everything you say, try growing a pair I mean your probably like 14 so I don't know why I expect anything more from this board.

I know Mata won't be as good as Iniesta because unlike slow EPLers like you and Gil I have watched him for a very long time not a little over a year and I'm not jerking off over a good patch of form. I have seen him play numerous times next to Iniesta and against him and it couldn't be more obvious that he will never be one of the best players in the world.

But with you EPLers I bet you thought at one point Lampard and Gerrard were some of the best players in the world so there really is no talking any sense into you guys who just now found out that Santi Cazorla was good at football and not a winger.

Iniesta has been in a good patch of form for about the last 5 years. And Guess what Iniesta is right up there with the Messi's and Xavi's and Ronaldo's of the world and Mata won't be better then any of them either, you wan't to be dumb enough to argue that too?

Man stfu my argument is that you CANT tell the future or are you going to basically tell me in a thousand word rant that you can.

My stance is that Mata is nowhere nears Iniesta's level but how can you predict the future and tell me he will NEVER be. You said NEVER or do you just type shit and not realise.

Who told you I wasn't watching Mata in La Liga? Who said I'm jerking off over a good patch of form? Who told you I thought Steven Gerrard and Lampard were the best players in the world? Who told you I didn't know about Santi Carzola?

That post right there shows how much of a dumb *bleep* you really are, since I made no mention of any of that bs you're posting.

Keep typing your thousand word posts full of BS if it makes you feel better dickhead.

Because it's quite possibly the easiest thing in the world to predict.

You are jerking off over a patch of form and it's obvious you didn't watch him before because you don't even remember last year when in some of the most important games Chelsea played Di Matteo didn't even start him.

You couldn't be more blind I mean you're acting like Mata is 18 years old or something. He has been playing top flight football for a long time in the CL and La Liga and for Spain.

He is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that but who he is isn't Andres Iniesta and he never will be again it is really quite obvious. He would never have left Spain if the 2 best teams in the world with 2 of the best youth systems and scouts and have tons of money thought he was going to be the next Andres Iniesta they would have bought him for 25 mill bucks.

They don't think he's Barca or Madrid Material and quite frankly he's not, as both there midfields have no room for him.

Andres Iniesta is a once in a generation player Juan Mata is not. I mean how dull can you be?

The easiest thing to predict in the world for me right now is that you are dumb. Sorry for spitting the brutal truth but sir you are super dumb.

Then, I guess according to you Lampard and Gerrard are not world class players right? So maybe other EPL players( slow EPL players am i right? ) such as Henry, Scholes, Rooney, RVP, Drogba , A.Cole... and etc who all became stars are just.. plain retarded football players is it? Oh wait, maybe Henry is not because he was bought by the 'best' ( who lost to Chelsea over 2 legs) club in the world?

I can understand your loyalty to your club and I appreciate that, but not be a retard.

Dnmac4 wrote:

Because it's quite possibly the easiest thing in the world to predict.

You are jerking off over a patch of form and it's obvious you didn't watch him before because you don't even remember last year when in some of the most important games Chelsea played Di Matteo didn't even start him.

You couldn't be more blind I mean you're acting like Mata is 18 years old or something. He has been playing top flight football for a long time in the CL and La Liga and for Spain.

He is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that but who he is isn't Andres Iniesta and he never will be again it is really quite obvious. He would never have left Spain if the 2 best teams in the world with 2 of the best youth systems and scouts and have tons of money thought he was going to be the next Andres Iniesta they would have bought him for 25 mill bucks.

They don't think he's Barca or Madrid Material and quite frankly he's not, as both there midfields have no room for him.

Andres Iniesta is a once in a generation player Juan Mata is not. I mean how dull can you be?

Sure, iniesta is the better player for most but do not agree with your arguments:
Firstly Rm & Barca scouting systems have made costly mistakes before, prime examples eto'o & fabregas.
There is also room for Mata at madrid's / Barca's team and this is purely opinionated but I value Mata (currently) higher then players such as Modric, Kaka and Alexis Sanchez.

Lastly in the previous 10 years alone there has been Nedved & Zidane who are both above iniesta in his position. A generation is a span of 30 years - a once in a generation player is a bold claim.

Gemini wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

Because it's quite possibly the easiest thing in the world to predict.

You are jerking off over a patch of form and it's obvious you didn't watch him before because you don't even remember last year when in some of the most important games Chelsea played Di Matteo didn't even start him.

You couldn't be more blind I mean you're acting like Mata is 18 years old or something. He has been playing top flight football for a long time in the CL and La Liga and for Spain.

He is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that but who he is isn't Andres Iniesta and he never will be again it is really quite obvious. He would never have left Spain if the 2 best teams in the world with 2 of the best youth systems and scouts and have tons of money thought he was going to be the next Andres Iniesta they would have bought him for 25 mill bucks.

They don't think he's Barca or Madrid Material and quite frankly he's not, as both there midfields have no room for him.

Andres Iniesta is a once in a generation player Juan Mata is not. I mean how dull can you be?

Sure, iniesta is the better player for most but do not agree with your arguments:
Firstly Rm & Barca scouting systems have made costly mistakes before, prime examples eto'o & fabregas.
There is also room for Mata at madrid's / Barca's team and this is purely opinionated but I value Mata (currently) higher then players such as Modric, Kaka and Alexis Sanchez.

Lastly in the previous 10 years alone there has been Nedved & Zidane who are both above iniesta in his position. A generation is a span of 30 years - a once in a generation player is a bold claim.

How was that a mistake by Barca? Barca wanted to keep Fabregas so much that, IIRC, the president went and talked to Fabregas himself and try to convince him to stay but they could do nothing because he was underage so Arsenal used that loophole to bring Fabregas to London..

Mata isn't a CM, Iniesta is.

gtfo with your robot posting ffs

I wont say that Mata will never become as good as Iniesta but everytime a midfielder plays great in the PL, the "premfaces" someone would call them, start saying that he is better than Iniesta or close to as good as him. Fabregas, Silva last season and now Mata...

WEST BROM!!!

That GOAT defence

OK, I'm going to answer a bunch of stupid posts with one post that should make this dumb argument over.

I mean it should have been over right away because according to Julias people who say "never" are ignorant so I guess if someone were to say something along the lines of Daniel Sturridge will never be better then Ronaldo that makes one Ignorant which could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

One guy asked why Iniesta is so much better then Mata and that Mata has been just as good as Iniesta lately.

Well Iniesta just won UEFA Player of the Year for 2012, he scored the winning goal in the WORLD CUP FINAL and was Man of the MAtch in the WORLD CUP FINAL while being selected to the "team of the tournament and was man of the match for Spain in 3 of the 7 games they played in the World Cup.

But that last part was 2010 so let's stick to recently.

When Spain won the 2012 Euro's (a team Mata was on BTW) Iniesta was player of the tournament driving Spain to another Major title while Mata really did nothing. This was THIS YEAR BTW. Which again helped him win UEFA's best player in Europe THIS YEAR an award I highly doubt Mata got much consideration for.

So most of this is all in 2012 and if I can count correctly it is 2012 so when I say you guys are jerking off over a good patch of form that's exactly what you're doing.

Now to the point of "Mata will never be as good as Iniesta" that statement being Ignorant. Let's take a look at what some people thought of Iniesta at Mata's current age shall we?

1. Former teammate Samuel Eto'o described Iniesta as being "the best player in the world; whenever Iniesta is on the pitch, he creates a spectacle." This was said in the 2008-2009 season.

2. Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson said: "I'm not obsessed with Messi, Iniesta is the danger. He's fantastic. He makes the team work. The way he finds passes, his movement and ability to create space is incredible. He's so important for Barcelona."

3. After the game (CL Final), Wayne Rooney described Iniesta as the best player in the world.

4. Don Balón rated him as the most consistent performer in the 2008–09 La Liga season, ahead of team-mates Xavi and Lionel Messi.

5. He was voted 5th in the Balon D'or voting in that year.

Does any of this sound like anything Mata is doing over the last year? Has the best coach in the world called him the best player in the world?
Have 2 of the best players in the game called him the best player in the world?

No, he's on a nice patch of form but again he's not fit to carry Iniesta's boots and he will never be better then Iniesta. It's quite obvious and simple.

I'm sue this wont make a dent as some of you seem to have IQ's lower then your age or your too young to remember 4 years ago when Iniesta was Mata's current age.

Either way it used to shock me how short sighted and caught in the moment people on this board are but not anymore it's expected as kids these days can't pay attention to anything anymore. It's basically whatever player had a good month he's world class and one of the best players in the world. It's so dumb.

Finally LOL at trying to make fun of lengthy posts, it just confirms the fact that you children have no attention span and can't read a couple paragraphs. It basically backs everything I have been saying.

Seriously people you have missed one golden match if you did not watch how West Brom silenced Chelsea.

GOAT!

Dutti wrote:Seriously people you have missed one golden match if you did not watch how West Brom silenced Chelsea.

GOAT!

Mata and Oscar didnt even start,so not that impressive

Chelsea were better when Mata and Oscar came on,not defensively but both of them created chances.Sturridge should have scored that Oscar backpass

Dutti wrote:Seriously people you have missed one golden match if you did not watch how West Brom silenced Chelsea.

GOAT!

sure GOAT! Chelsea's strongest team played.

It probably wouldn't have changed the game that much even if Mata and Oscar started, because they too couldn't break West Brom's defence in the last 20-30 minutes.

Dnmac4 wrote:Well Iniesta just won UEFA Player of the Year for 2012, he scored the winning goal in the WORLD CUP FINAL and was Man of the MAtch in the WORLD CUP FINAL while being selected to the "team of the tournament and was man of the match for Spain in 3 of the 7 games they played in the World Cup.

Agreed that he is one of the best players right now.

But that last part was 2010 so let's stick to recently.

When Spain won the 2012 Euro's (a team Mata was on BTW) Iniesta was player of the tournament driving Spain to another Major title while Mata really did nothing. This was THIS YEAR BTW. Which again helped him win UEFA's best player in Europe THIS YEAR an award I highly doubt Mata got much consideration for.

Euro was right after the season finished. By that time Mata was burnt to the max because he was carrying Chelsea from the day he started playing for Chelsea. If not for Mata we would have been out of the CL + there wont be a profit on behalf of Chelsea this season.

So most of this is all in 2012 and if I can count correctly it is 2012 so when I say you guys are jerking off over a good patch of form that's exactly what you're doing.

I dont jerk off over Mata, thats gay... i'm unfortunately straight. Sorry for the disappointment. I'll drink as a tribute for his service... jerk off... naah

Now to the point of "Mata will never be as good as Iniesta" that statement being Ignorant. Let's take a look at what some people thought of Iniesta at Mata's current age shall we?

1. Former teammate Samuel Eto'o described Iniesta as being "the best player in the world; whenever Iniesta is on the pitch, he creates a spectacle." This was said in the 2008-2009 season.

2. Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson said: "I'm not obsessed with Messi, Iniesta is the danger. He's fantastic. He makes the team work. The way he finds passes, his movement and ability to create space is incredible. He's so important for Barcelona."

3. After the game (CL Final), Wayne Rooney described Iniesta as the best player in the world.

4. Don Balón rated him as the most consistent performer in the 2008–09 La Liga season, ahead of team-mates Xavi and Lionel Messi.

5. He was voted 5th in the Balon D'or voting in that year.

Guess who won the Champions league? The semi's n the final Drogba played a big part. But throughout the campaign guess who carried the team? Mata was consistent throughout last season and he even started PL football with a goal. Mata is still new to the biggest stage of football. Sure he was a great player for Valencia but they are not challenging for titles or CL's in europe. Not saying they are a bad team, still one of the best teams in Spain and if not for the financial difficulties they would have a fair chance of winning the league. IMO.

Does any of this sound like anything Mata is doing over the last year? Has the best coach in the world called him the best player in the world?
Have 2 of the best players in the game called him the best player in the world

No, he's on a nice patch of form but again he's not fit to carry Iniesta's boots and he will never be better then Iniesta. It's quite obvious and simple.

Right now, Iniesta is solid in the Spanish team so I agree with you that he will not be taking Iniesta's place. Will never be better than Iniesta, I cant predict the future. Just in case you can, can i PM you to get some ideas for the stock market. very useful.

I'm sue this wont make a dent as some of you seem to have IQ's lower then your age or your too young to remember 4 years ago when Iniesta was Mata's current age.

Either way it used to shock me how short sighted and caught in the moment people on this board are but not anymore it's expected as kids these days can't pay attention to anything anymore. It's basically whatever player had a good month he's world class and one of the best players in the world. It's so dumb.


ahahaha, he only had a good month... sureeee! maybe in some other universe where a month means like 365 days +.

Finally LOL at trying to make fun of lengthy posts, it just confirms the fact that you children have no attention span and can't read a couple paragraphs. It basically backs everything I have been saying.

Finally, he is as not good as Iniesta yet, sure. But he is one of the best in the PL since coming on. Iniesta has a lot of options around to mess with, Messi+Xavi+Villa etc. And last season you guys had pretty much the best midfield and we still beat you guys. Mata created the pathway to that semi final. Drogba finished it off. So even without the midfield of Barca he still was pretty much a class above everyone.

This season he got a proper midfield and a proper set of attackers that suit his style of play. He has been pretty much amazing for Chelsea with those guys and soon enough, we can see who is better. Iniesta or Mata.. or Silva for that matter.

For now though, I agree.. Iniesta is still better. But dont predict the future. Its just stupid.

Dutti wrote:It probably wouldn't have changed the game that much even if Mata and Oscar started, because they too couldn't break West Brom's defence in the last 20-30 minutes.

if they started it would have been the first 50-70 mins

Dnmac4, your logic is so wrong, it makes you look bad... The development of every human being is so different and it depends on so many factors that your so called syllogism is worst i ever seen.. If player A is not player's B level at 24 yrs old, doesn't mean that player A can't be at the same level as player B at other age of player A, respective B. It's not like mata is a medium level player and has no perspective. He's the best player of UCL defending champions

Your other statements.. Mata has not been called best in the world by best coach, like iniesta was called by ferguson... Another statement with so many errors.. First of all, there's no best coach in the world, unless you give me some real filters to compare them, if we compare mou or lippi with ferguson it's pretty sh*t to call one of them being better than another with no filters.. If Mourinho would have come to say that Xavi is the best player in the world, and at the same time SAF says iniesta is the best in the world?? Does it make iniesta the best in the world? So poor argument... Your logic is based on false, subjective hypothesis(Saf being the best in the world it's obviously a subjective statement after all).. Also the same with rooney.. If Scholes would have come to say other thing, what does it prove?

Making statements like the best player of an UCL winner team last year will NEVER be at the level of other player is laughable for a grown man like you pretend to be indirectly... And bringing the age argument is another bad logic.. How can you know if the person you are talking with is more or less capable intellectually from a player comparison? Maybe your debate partner has mathematical, musical, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic etc intelligence higher than you can imagine..

Dutti wrote:It probably wouldn't have changed the game that much even if Mata and Oscar started, because they too couldn't break West Brom's defence in the last 20-30 minutes.

Mata created 2 chances for Sturridge with lob passes ,Oscar once with that backheel(?) pass

iNFINITY9910 wrote:

Dutti wrote:It probably wouldn't have changed the game that much even if Mata and Oscar started, because they too couldn't break West Brom's defence in the last 20-30 minutes.

if they started it would have been the first 50-70 mins

Anyway, it's really more of a compliment to West Brom's form that Di Matteo maybe should have let Mata and Oscar played from the beginning. The way West Brom marked and defended is worth a praise.

tuddor wrote:Dnmac4, your logic is so wrong, it makes you look bad... The development of every human being is so different and it depends on so many factors that your so called syllogism is worst i ever seen.. If player A is not player's B level at 24 yrs old, doesn't mean that player A can't be at the same level as player B at other age of player A, respective B. It's not like mata is a medium level player and has no perspective. He's the best player of UCL defending champions

Your other statements.. Mata has not been called best in the world by best coach, like iniesta was called by ferguson... Another statement with so many errors.. First of all, there's no best coach in the world, unless you give me some real filters to compare them, if we compare mou or lippi with ferguson it's pretty sh*t to call one of them being better than another with no filters.. If Mourinho would have come to say that Xavi is the best player in the world, and at the same time SAF says iniesta is the best in the world?? Does it make iniesta the best in the world? So poor argument... Your logic is based on false, subjective hypothesis(Saf being the best in the world it's obviously a subjective statement after all).. Also the same with rooney.. If Scholes would have come to say other thing, what does it prove?

Making statements like the best player of an UCL winner team last year will NEVER be at the level of other player is laughable for a grown man like you pretend to be indirectly... And bringing the age argument is another bad logic.. How can you know if the person you are talking with is more or less capable intellectually from a player comparison? Maybe your debate partner has mathematical, musical, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic etc intelligence higher than you can imagine..

So tell me what makes you think Mata will ever be better then Iniesta? And if you don't what the hell is all this nonsense about.

Iniesta had a much better 2012 as seen by his Best player in Europe award given by UEFA who knows more then you.

Iniesta was much better at the stage of his career that Mata is at now.

Iniesta was killing it on the international stage by Mata's age where Mata can barely get a game.

And you people take everything so damn literally if you don't think SAF is the best coach in the world then what is he #2 or #3? What is the difference he is still saying Iniesta was better then Messi which no one would ever confuse Mata with.

EVERY Fuc**** Spanish player goes in and bosses the EPL. Again if you think he's the best player in the EPL you're wrong but OK. He was no where even in the conversation as the best player in La Liga.

And BTW he had great options at Valencia so I don't know what that poster was on.

This whole argument is because I said never but by Mata's age and experience he is already so far behind Iniesta it's not even funny, multiply that by the fact that in the next World cup Mata will not start for his national team and now you're at about age 26-27. How much time do you want to give him to reach Iniesta's level?

I mean Mata is what he is and that's a good player but he is not top 5 player in the world Material even if he does well in the EPL as the EPL does not have the best players in the world in it.

Right now the best outfield players players are Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta, Ibra, Thiago Silva, etc

I mean the EPL is very lacking in top players in the world and usually have no one show up even in the conversation for best player in the world where Iniesta has been in that conversation since he was Mata's age.

Personally I think Rooney should be in that conversation as he can play basically any position and he's similar to Iniesta as his stats don't always show his true influence on a game. But that is the only player in the EPL I would put in the "best player in the world conversation."

Ganso wrote:

Dutti wrote:It probably wouldn't have changed the game that much even if Mata and Oscar started, because they too couldn't break West Brom's defence in the last 20-30 minutes.

Mata created 2 chances for Sturridge with lob passes ,Oscar once with that backheel(?) pass

^^^^This.

Don't know if Dutti actually watched the match or he just saw highlights.

Blue Barrett wrote:

Ganso wrote:

Dutti wrote:It probably wouldn't have changed the game that much even if Mata and Oscar started, because they too couldn't break West Brom's defence in the last 20-30 minutes.

Mata created 2 chances for Sturridge with lob passes ,Oscar once with that backheel(?) pass

^^^^This.

Don't know if Dutti actually watched the match or he just saw highlights.

If he even did that

It probably would have been in the highlights