Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by CBarca on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:21 am

Good article, I thought he was too dismissive of Busquets in this part here:

He also likes to have a deep, central player who can initiate attacking moves from the back. For Paraguay, he had the barrel-chested Nestor Ortigoza, while at Newell’s he had Raúl Villalba and when he left, the responsibility was passed to Santiago Vergini, a centre-back.

With Sergio Busquets un-droppable in defensive midfield, it is likely that Martino will again look to a centre-back to fill this deep playmaker role, and there are few technical defenders better than Gerard Piqué.

Busquets, while anchoring the midfield and usually limiting himself to short passes to Xavi and Iniesta, is more than capable of such a role I think. Take a look below for some videos of his ability to play the forward pass and pass between the lines. Busquets tactical understanding and awareness is outstanding - like Xavi, and I believe this allows for a player that, given the freedom to do so without the restrictions his role previously put on him, could play a player who is making quick vertical passes to Iniesta, Neymar, and perhaps Alves from a deeper position.

That's not to say I disagree with the author that Pique is a good choice. Pique is technically excellent and enjoys bringing the ball out of the back. His passing is quite good as well. I just disagreed with how dismissive he was of Busquets here, as I think he's more than capable. It's a different role than he's used to certainly and one that would be an interesting thought.

Busquets forward passing ability:



Also thought this part was interesting:

The question remains of what to do with Xavi Hernández. Tata Martino’s 4-3-3 system requires the central midfielders to make darting forward runs and offer a penalty box threat (Andrés Iniesta) and Xavi – a living, breathing monument to tiki-taka – may struggle to find his place in such a role. At 33 years old, his fitness is questionable, but even when at his physical peak Xavi’s style was never about making forward bursts or scoring goals, instead it is about rhythmic, flawless passing and setting the tempo for the whole team.

I'm sorry, could someone else please point out who we just let go that would have been perfect for this role? By this description Tata Martino would have absolutely loved Thiago. I always thought Thiago is a bit better in a role that mirrors Iniesta's more than Xavi's, although I think Thiago would have excelled amazingly in both roles. It makes me even more depressed really...losing such a great talent for such a low price over ridiculous reasons is bad enough but if Tata comes in and implements his system which seems to favor the kind of midfielder we just let go for basically peanuts is....Barcelona :facepalm:

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarcaLearning on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:05 am

Isnt his name means Grandpa? I think thats great Razz If hes a figure like Del Bosque that would be awesome Razz Im pretty sick of Bielsa related tbh Razz
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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by free_cat on Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:20 am

He is like Bielsa. Heard him speaking on the tv and it's awful. Same accent, incredibly slow speaking, long pauses, some expressions difficult to understand... at least he looks to who he is speaking and is more direct than Bielsa.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by free_cat on Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:17 am

Btw, Martino said that he thinks Messi recommended him.

Very dislikeable when a player recommends the coach.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:36 am

What he said was "I actually don't know anything about how my name came up for consideration, I'm sure Jorge and Lionel Messi talked in my behalf, but I have no idea how much weight their words had".

I agree he's not a very good public speaker. His speech was riddled with "estes" which would be the spanish equivalent of "umms".

I'm hoping we can finish this coach business soon so we can go back to focusing on what matters most: a CB.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by free_cat on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:03 pm

"I'm sure Jorge and Lionel Messi talked in my behalf, but I have no idea how much weight their words had"

He's sure Jorge and Leo recommended him... so they indeed recommended him.

I find very worrying that a coach is recommended by any player from the squad.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by Harmonica on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:06 pm

Bigger risk than going with Lucho, hopefully it will also pay bigger. Maybe he will be able to wake some of the old guard also, mainly Pedro, Alves, Pique and Xavi.
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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:46 pm

Free he did say he doesn't know how we came about deciding on him. If he hasn't had any contact with the messi family how does he know they recommended him? Messi himself claims to be surprised at the appointment. He could have just have made an educated guess based on the media reports.

Also I see nothing wrong at players recommending coaches or other players, so long as it is a suggestion and not a demand. If messi came up to Rosell and said 'I know we are looking for a coach and I think Martino's work warrants a look' then there is nothing wrong with that. Xavi, Pique and Puyol did the same with Cesc, although more aggressively.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by free_cat on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:58 pm

He said I'm sure.

An employee can recommend another employee but not a boss.

Business management 101.


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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:06 pm

Yeah okay, I agree there are some business ethics concerns here. But so long as messi's involvement doesn't affect tata's judgement it shouldn't have any detrimental effects.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:22 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
I'm hoping we can finish this coach business soon so we can go back to focusing on what matters most: a CB.

Not sure i agree.

A CB would not help at all if the coaching and tactics were horrid again but you can get away with poor CBs with good coaching and tactics.

The mere fact you win the CL and La Liga in 2011 with Mascherano at CB for much of season is an example of that.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by The Franchise on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:33 pm

Yeah im not comfortable with Messi or any player making decisions on hiring. I dont even like the idea of them suggesting players, unless they are asked about.

I guess my thinking is basically players play and the coaches coach. Stay in your lane and play your position.

Though I agree, I am much less worried if it was a suggestion than a demand and if Messi had any involvement, I feel it would be that.
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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by The Franchise on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:40 pm

I agree totally. I dont think Busquets should be glossed over like that either, I think he is plenty capable and I wouldnt think Pique is automatically a better candidate. Pique is a fine passer..but hes not THAT good..hes no Rafael Marquez...hes more Edmilson.

And we share the same thoughts on Thiago, as soon as I read that line I thought about it. If Thiago was catching Xavi in overall level (while clearly surpassing him in others) in a style Xavi is best suited for...the difference likely disappears completely in a style such as this.

I am starting to get some concerns over Xavi already in this system. I have a feeling he wont enjoy it or Martino will have to change..which takes some of my excitement away because I am sort of looking forward to seeing something new.
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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:00 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
I'm hoping we can finish this coach business soon so we can go back to focusing on what matters most: a CB.

Not sure i agree.

A CB would not help at all if the coaching and tactics were horrid again but you can get away with poor CBs with good coaching and tactics.

The mere fact you win the CL and La Liga in 2011 with Mascherano at CB for much of season is an example of that.
*what matters most for the remainder of the transfer season

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:00 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
I'm hoping we can finish this coach business soon so we can go back to focusing on what matters most: a CB.

Not sure i agree.

A CB would not help at all if the coaching and tactics were horrid again but you can get away with poor CBs with good coaching and tactics.

The mere fact you win the CL and La Liga in 2011 with Mascherano at CB for much of season is an example of that.
*what matters most for the remainder of the transfer season

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:01 pm

Sorry my bad :facepalm: 

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:05 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
I am starting to get some concerns over Xavi already in this system. I have a feeling he wont enjoy it or Martino will have to change..which takes some of my excitement away because I am sort of looking forward to seeing something new.

Is this really a bad thing in the long term though?

No one is going to replace Xavi so you are going to have to change tactically to compensate.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by The Franchise on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:10 pm

Sure, but Xavi is still around and still has the mentality of a huge player. He will still have huge influence and strong opinion within the club and squad. Its stuff like this which causes cliches and rifts I feel, its how it starts.

If Xavi feels his style isnt being played too and on top of that its a style which has brought tremendous success...if it doesnt produce results, I cant imagine he wont have issue with it.

Also I dont think he is anywhere near as finished as people think and still has something to give.
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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by CBarca on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:30 pm

Xavi is far from finished. He is simply tired and fatigued...when was the last time he had a real break?

He was paramount in many games for us last season and put in some tremendous shifts. It's still pretty evident when Xavi is not in the side. We don't quite look the same, regardless of how well he's playing.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:57 pm

It sounds strange but I am really pleased with this appointment. My reasons are hardly logical but instead psychological.

There are two things that really appeal to me here.

One is that he is not a world renowned coach whom everyone is after. The names of AVB, Pellegrini and Valverde were being floated but none of them excited me as such. Heynckes did to some extent. As I have said before the only one that thrilled me is Klopp but he was hardly ever in the fray. Ultimately though the thought that stayed with me is that Barcelona is about turning relative unknowns into superstars. We often don't do very well with well established names.

The other reason for my support is that he is not a Barcelona insider. Yes I know insiders have often done really well for us but in the last few years I feel that has been done to death and this feels like a breath of fresh air.

Of course only results decide how good the decision was but right now I am pleased. In fact in many months this is probably the only key decision made by our board that has pleased me.

One minor point of confusion is there. Has the matter about his assistants been sorted out. He seems to have two co-workers who are always with him, an assistant and a physical trainer. I would prefer that they be hired as well because coaches are used to working in teams. That could though mean dismissing a few of those who are already holding such positions with us.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:25 am

Messi denies involvement in the signing of Martino:

"I have nothing to do with Martino nor do I have to explain myself. That's a matter for president Rosell and the club. At the time I said he seemed a good coach [referring to his statements a year ago], but I don't have to explain anything else.

"I don't even know him personally, I've never met him, nor Luis Enrique, that was the other rumored option. His signign pleases me because he will come to contribute and already demonstrated at Newell's and the Paraguay national team that he is able. Hopefully it will all work out."

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:32 am

I think we're jumping the gun a little bit here. It's true that Martino is very vertical, but that doesn't mean he has no use for Xavi. If he rotates Song with Xavi significantly then Xavi will probably be at the required level of fitness. Additionally, it's likely that Martino has never before had a player like Xavi under him and he might tweak his tactics to suit his team rather than impose his pure ideology, he's a pragmatist after all.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by free_cat on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:34 am

Btw, Tata Martino looks exactly like Jordi Roura with a bit less of jaw.

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by neuro11 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:15 pm

@free_cat wrote:Btw, Tata Martino looks exactly like Jordi Roura with a bit less of jaw.

good identification ..... Very Happy

when is he coming....hate to be without coach,CB,plans and tactics and so many things....

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:24 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Additionally, it's likely that Martino has never before had a player like Xavi under him and he might tweak his tactics to suit his team rather than impose his pure ideology, he's a pragmatist after all.

Spot on

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Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:25 pm

@neuro11 wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Btw, Tata Martino looks exactly like Jordi Roura with a bit less of jaw.

good identification ..... Very Happy

when is he coming....hate to be without coach,CB,plans and tactics and so many things....

Arrival tonight. Signing tomorrow morning. Presentation tomorrow evening.


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