Re: Rest of the Football World Thread

[Hapless_Hans]

so a 4 man defense Rafinah-Boateng-Alaba-Bernat lol, with one of Alaba/Bernat always running around in front. That cowardice.

Oh well. haters gonna hate.

[futbol]

That cowardice.

Yes. Pep is a coward. Deal with it.

[Winter is Coming]

Pep after seeing Alonso get the red



"You're going to be seeing the bench now son"

[The Franchise]

I have to say how awful the PL standards are.

Man Utd haven't had 5 good performances all season, sit in the top 4.

Arsenal are all over the place, begging to finish outside the top 4...but they wont.

Look at Man City when they play us, or Bayern last year...the gap is so big. Man City looked not much better than your average La Liga side vs us.

Chelsea people consider a strong team, and for good reason, they are. However, vs Spurs this did nothing...their best players like Hazard, Cesc and Costa totally invisible or giving balls away easily and often. Nothing interesting about their performance. Obviously, they win via 2 deflected goals. And generally I have watched them alot this season and seldom do they give a good performance. They will get results, even against the best teams in the world...and its no surprise they look how they look with Mourinho as their coach, but man, the "gold standard" of the PL never looked so bad.

[Kick]

I have to say how awful the PL standards are.

Man Utd haven't had 5 good performances all season, sit in the top 4.

Arsenal are all over the place, begging to finish outside the top 4...but they wont.

Look at Man City when they play us, or Bayern last year...the gap is so big. Man City looked not much better than your average La Liga side vs us.

Chelsea people consider a strong team, and for good reason, they are. However, vs Spurs this did nothing...their best players like Hazard, Cesc and Costa totally invisible or giving balls away easily and often. Nothing interesting about their performance. Obviously, they win via 2 deflected goals. And generally I have watched them alot this season and seldom do they give a good performance. They will get results, even against the best teams in the world...and its no surprise they look how they look with Mourinho as their coach, but man, the "gold standard" of the PL never looked so bad.

I would agree with that, But Barca, Bayern and Madrid tend to buy up all the super stars, making it somewhat difficult to achieve that status.

Also, City has always been a team which romps the EPL but does terribly in Europe. They just don't have the team to compete there.

[neuro11]

I have to say how awful the PL standards are.

Man Utd haven't had 5 good performances all season, sit in the top 4.

Arsenal are all over the place, begging to finish outside the top 4...but they wont.

Look at Man City when they play us, or Bayern last year...the gap is so big. Man City looked not much better than your average La Liga side vs us.

Chelsea people consider a strong team, and for good reason, they are. However, vs Spurs this did nothing...their best players like Hazard, Cesc and Costa totally invisible or giving balls away easily and often. Nothing interesting about their performance. Obviously, they win via 2 deflected goals. And generally I have watched them alot this season and seldom do they give a good performance. They will get results, even against the best teams in the world...and its no surprise they look how they look with Mourinho as their coach, but man, the "gold standard" of the PL never looked so bad.

I would agree with that, But Barca, Bayern and Madrid tend to buy up all the super stars, making it somewhat difficult to achieve that status.

Also, City has always been a team which romps the EPL but does terribly in Europe. They just don't have the team to compete there.

coming from a Chelsea fan . Chesea was reformed in 2003 while M.City was reformed in 2008. they are gaining experience every year. they are also a bit unlucky to play constantly vs top teams in the group stages, yet qualifying and then again are facing top teams in early stage of knockout rounds every year.

[Winter is Coming]

^What does that have to do with anything? Chelsea before Roman were in the semi-final and since then they have been quite good in Europe regardless of how they get the result, a long with United they are the team they keep the English flag up in Europe for the past few years. there is no excuse for City been 4-5 years and have flopped hard the only thing they've done is make it out of the group stages as an achievement in the last 2-3 years.

I agree with Franchise, I've said this for the past 2-3 years as it seem like that. Competition wise its good, because they stay close to one another on the table, but from an entertainment and quality perspective of the games it's quite dull.

I do disagree with Kick as its not like PL teams don't buy talents or their share of superstar neither.

[windkick]

Yea I disagree with Kick as well. Bayern, Madrid and Barca buy up allot of players, but they usually rotate the door and big name players go out (James in > Di Maria out, Bale in > Ozil out, Suarez in > Sanchez out, Cesc in > Toure out...and when Cesc was replaced by Rakitic he went to Chelsea etc). And notice those big name guys went to the EPL, so while you have 3 clubs buying up big names, you have an entire league with solid well known internationals up and down the table yet the over game is horrible on a tactical level. Not only that, coming from a Chelsea fan thats a ridiculous comment considering they are usually way more active in the market than those 3 clubs, or just as active. Same goes for Utd and City. So I don't agree at all.

[DeletedUser#1]

It's that in PL and CL you need different elements to succeed. Between 04-09, Premier League had outstanding individuals who covered for that fact and allowed teams to be effective in both competitions. Since Madrid's Ronaldo transfer and emergence of Pep's Barca and change in dynamics of the market, there has been a turn-around.

In order to succeed in PL, you need Pace over possession, tempo over over team shape. PL teams build their teams based on that, and in Europe (a completely different ball game), their style gets found out.

Ferguson's team were all about pace and tempo and it cleaned out the PL but were often disappointing in Europe up until the last few seasons. Benitez' Liverpool were more European team, but struggled to make the same impact in the league (because of lack of pace and tempo).

Finding the right balance isn't easy. Mourinho is the closest to that at this moment, because they are a mixture of two styles, and their outstanding individual quality in 1 vs 1 battles see them nick PL wins, that a team with lesser financial ability wouldn't be able to match.

[Hapless_Hans]

In order to succeed in PL, you need Pace over possession, tempo over over team shape. PL teams build their teams based on that, and in Europe (a completely different ball game), their style gets found out.

That's the part I don't get. It's the same discussion we had in General Section regarding different league's "styles", or the preconceptions about them.

If a game based on pace at the expense of other elements gets "found out in Europe", why would you NEED that style in order to succeed in the PL?
Why couldn't a good 'possession' team just as easily 'find out' those teams in the Prem?

[windkick]

yea, pretty sure Barcas possession game would work against anybody (doesn't mean they would always win).

Point is if you are REALLY good at your style, then you should be able to impose it on other teams regardless of what style they try put on you. Problem with EPL teams is that they sort of bitch out when they play in UCL as oppose to the likes of Stoke or whatever. Instead of going in trying to impose a tactic, they go in more worried about the other team dominating them....and they end up getting a bad result. We have seen Arsenal and other teams able to crank it up vs the big teams when they don't show up scared, but that's usually far in between

It's almost as if the influx of money made the clubs in the EPL think that if they buy quality, that it will equal wins. Like they hope these players they buy will come in and just get it done, as oppose to inserting a set tactic into the team for the players to follow. So when they come across more organized sides, they get trashed (i mean Bilbao trashed Utd..given the status of the sides, that shouldn't of been so one sided)

[neuro11]

^What does that have to do with anything? Chelsea before Roman were in the semi-final and since then they have been quite good in Europe regardless of how they get the result, a long with United they are the team they keep the English flag up in Europe for the past few years. there is no excuse for City been 4-5 years and have flopped hard the only thing they've done is make it out of the group stages as an achievement in the last 2-3 years.

Chelsea had been in the group of mostly average clubs since their reborn consistently every season. Check at their group stage opponents and compare with M.City's. And dont forget Mou and Hiddink two PTB specialist coached them in first six years. that ofcourse matters. Some clubs might not want to get the result in a ugly way.

[The Franchise]

I have to say how awful the PL standards are.

Man Utd haven't had 5 good performances all season, sit in the top 4.

Arsenal are all over the place, begging to finish outside the top 4...but they wont.

Look at Man City when they play us, or Bayern last year...the gap is so big. Man City looked not much better than your average La Liga side vs us.

Chelsea people consider a strong team, and for good reason, they are. However, vs Spurs this did nothing...their best players like Hazard, Cesc and Costa totally invisible or giving balls away easily and often. Nothing interesting about their performance. Obviously, they win via 2 deflected goals. And generally I have watched them alot this season and seldom do they give a good performance. They will get results, even against the best teams in the world...and its no surprise they look how they look with Mourinho as their coach, but man, the "gold standard" of the PL never looked so bad.

I would agree with that, But Barca, Bayern and Madrid tend to buy up all the super stars, making it somewhat difficult to achieve that status.

Also, City has always been a team which romps the EPL but does terribly in Europe. They just don't have the team to compete there.

I dont think the best PL teams lack star power. I dont think that is their problem.

Is signing Lewandowski, Gotze and Benatia any more star driven than signing Costa, Cesc and Courtois? I dont think it really is.

Utd just signed Di Maria and Falcao. The Falcao I knew of before injury was not much if any less of a star than Saurez and on all accounts Di Maria is better than anyone else we signed, and you could argue maybe Madrid signed also.

I get what your saying anyway, but like I said, and no disrespect to Chelsea, but you could add Messi to Chelsea and some how Mourinho will find a way to suck the fun out of the game. Chelsea have more than enough talent and interesting players to plye a far more interesting game and play in more interesting matches...but dont. Which is fine, but as a semi natural.. I obviously hate.

[The Franchise]

It's that in PL and CL you need different elements to succeed. Between 04-09, Premier League had outstanding individuals who covered for that fact and allowed teams to be effective in both competitions. Since Madrid's Ronaldo transfer and emergence of Pep's Barca and change in dynamics of the market, there has been a turn-around.

In order to succeed in PL, you need Pace over possession, tempo over over team shape. PL teams build their teams based on that, and in Europe (a completely different ball game), their style gets found out.

Ferguson's team were all about pace and tempo and it cleaned out the PL but were often disappointing in Europe up until the last few seasons. Benitez' Liverpool were more European team, but struggled to make the same impact in the league (because of lack of pace and tempo).

Finding the right balance isn't easy. Mourinho is the closest to that at this moment, because they are a mixture of two styles, and their outstanding individual quality in 1 vs 1 battles see them nick PL wins, that a team with lesser financial ability wouldn't be able to match.

I very much agree with this, great post.

[The Franchise]

In order to succeed in PL, you need Pace over possession, tempo over over team shape. PL teams build their teams based on that, and in Europe (a completely different ball game), their style gets found out.

That's the part I don't get. It's the same discussion we had in General Section regarding different league's "styles", or the preconceptions about them.

If a game based on pace at the expense of other elements gets "found out in Europe", why would you NEED that style in order to succeed in the PL?
Why couldn't a good 'possession' team just as easily 'find out' those teams in the Prem?

He can speak for himself, but what I understood of it or my take on it is that you dont need that style to succeed in the PL...just, its one which is known to work an is relatively easy to implement.

Possession and positioning requires alot more tactical thought and teaching than free wheeling "pace and tempo". I dont want to suggest that PL coaches dont have tactical knowledge and sophistication, but you do find alot more coaches arent coaches...but are "managers" (usually from the old school, guys like Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce, Woy, Pardew, Fat Sam and many others)who dont really coach the team and who's ideas of football are alot simpler and more about individuals than systems.

How does this relate to top teams?

I think many of these teams recognise the general nature of the PL and their teams morph into a more skilled, higher quality version of these teams. City for example, do they even have an identity? Since the day Robinho stepped foot in the door untill now I honestly cant say I know what kind of football they wanted to play.

[Kick]

It's that in PL and CL you need different elements to succeed. Between 04-09, Premier League had outstanding individuals who covered for that fact and allowed teams to be effective in both competitions. Since Madrid's Ronaldo transfer and emergence of Pep's Barca and change in dynamics of the market, there has been a turn-around.

In order to succeed in PL, you need Pace over possession, tempo over over team shape. PL teams build their teams based on that, and in Europe (a completely different ball game), their style gets found out.

Ferguson's team were all about pace and tempo and it cleaned out the PL but were often disappointing in Europe up until the last few seasons. Benitez' Liverpool were more European team, but struggled to make the same impact in the league (because of lack of pace and tempo).

Finding the right balance isn't easy. Mourinho is the closest to that at this moment, because they are a mixture of two styles, and their outstanding individual quality in 1 vs 1 battles see them nick PL wins, that a team with lesser financial ability wouldn't be able to match.

I very much agree with this, great post.

I can agree with that, too. It is almost exactly what I was going to say.

Also, my comment about buying players was more directed at superstars, than star players.

Barca has Messi Neymar Suarez, Real has Ronaldo, James and Benzema, Bayern has Robben, Ribery Neuer, Lahm et al.

Arsenal only really has Ozil and Sanchez, Utd only has ADM and Rooney, City: Aguero Silva and Yaya. Chelsea probably has the most with Cech, Courtois, Matic, Cesc and Hazard.

If Utd had, say Ronaldo and someone like Robben, they'd have a lot of indivual brilliance and would probably be a better team.

If Arsenal had Messi and Neymar, they'd have an amazing front 4 and probably be performing much better.

That is the kind of thing I was talking about, as oppose to the lack of stars in the EPL.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Is City really representative of the entire PL? Would any other top team in the PL play against us with such naive tactics?

[windkick]

Real Madrid aren't look too scary.

Plus the fact the players themselves are talking as if they world is collapsing on them. They look frustrated, fatigued, and lack of confidence. Couldn't be a better time to play them this month

[The Franchise]

Or...its perfect time for them to turn it around.

They look so bad that you know its not true. They know its not true, they just need a big result to go their way and it looks like we are it for them.

We obviously wont lay down and die for them, we need to compound their misery.

But yeah, I can almost never taken previous form into consideration for this game. There are some exceptions but this isnt it.

What is 100% true though is Iker is truly poor and their defence is very breach able.

[windkick]

yea I thought playing Iker just for the cup games worked better for them last season than playing him every single game like they do this one. I mean the guy has been on the receiving end of some serious blunders the past 3 or so years and they just refuse to throw in the towel on his time....which is good for us lol. I mean it's not like he proved his point to be a world beater at the world cup...not sure why they went into this season deciding to give him his number 1 spot back after being benched by both Carlo and Mourinho last 2 or so seasons

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Is City really representative of the entire PL? Would any other top team in the PL play against us with such naive tactics?

Nope, not even we would lol. I have been saying for years that City are perfectly built for PL but are poorly built for the CL. It doesn't mean they are crap, just that their squad is very imbalanced and correcting that balance isn't easy and quite frankly even if they did they would probably worse in the PL.

[Winter is Coming]

PSG played really well with 10 men against Chelsea. Cavani really screwed them over. The red card didn't help them. Still 10 minutes to go but it seems like PSG are out of juice.

Also Thiago Silva smh

[Winter is Coming]

I'm crying. PSG PSG PSG

[The Franchise]

Couldnt be more happy without Barca being involved, what a great day to see Chelsea out.

The ref was totally unfair, everything went Chelsea's way...pen which didnt even seem to touch Silva's hand, a bogus red, Costa getting away with everything, Luiz and others getting cards for nothing and no foul calls.

Mou defensive football costing his team yet again, an extra player for 90 minutes and they dont dominate, they dont create anything special and look at their goals....set peice scrambles and penalties.

But major respect to PSG, they have alot of heart and spirit behind all that money and not every team (even great teams) could find a way to win that.

Great result.

[Valkyrja]

Chelsea had a legit penalty when Luiz tripped Costa in the first half iirc. The ref was shit on both sides

[Donuts]

the ref screwed over PSG far more than they did to chelsea..

unless you think a penalty not getting called is equivalent to a iffy penalty given and a red card early in the game.

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