Winter Transfer rumors

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:21 pm

Really.... so playing Lahm as the covering mid was completely predictable according to you.  Or playing Lemina, Romao, Fanni and Morel as CBs were equally logical evolutions.

Pretty clear that neither Bielsa nor Pep give a damn about what your position was prior to them taking over... they just care about skillset.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:27 pm

Pep, Bielsa, Gourcuff, etc....  those are the type of tactics he is looking to emulate.  Modric in the Motta role?  I'm speculating by why not.  It really depends on how he plans on using the fullbacks... if they're going to be wingbacks then obviously it wouldn't work.  But if he's going to hold them to a more traditional role, then yes it could.  

Football is evolving into players having less defined and narrow roles.  You have to be able to do a bit of everything so you can move around and cover different areas within a game even.  Imo, Modric has evolved to the point where he can play all the midfield roles.  Kroos is not quite there because he's not comfortable in tight spaces.  Isco has the potential but he's still a work in progress.  

That's just how i see it.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:47 pm

I dont know how you can claim to understand all of what Pep needs of his pivot and then say "Modric in the Motta role? Why not?" is this really an argument? wow. what's next, Pogba playing pivot?

another point of contradiction, Fullbacks in the way that Pep/Bielsa use them, play very high up the pitch, as a matter of fact, they are use to stretch the defense with the 3 forwards making runs to overwhelm the defense. There is no "if he's going to hold them to a more traditional role, then yes it could" traditional fullbacks dont exist with pep/bielsa, it's not an if.

Again, you cant say Zidane is trying to emulate those guys, then suggest he might do something else.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:00 pm

Again.... Pep moved Lahm into the midfield.  Yaya was a DM and look at what he became at City.  Heck, he even moved Alaba into the CM role.

Bielsa... same thing.  He took Morel and Lemina and made them into CBs.

So really, what do you think is next?  They're not linear thinkers and you're saying that we shouldn't try and speculate because it doesn't fit linear thinking?  That's the whole idea with these guys.  They look at the physical and technical attributes of a player at that moment... they could care less about whatever role they played previously.

And Pogba can play whatever midfield role he wants to...  he just has to put his mind to it and buy in.  But it would be a waste because he has too many skills.  He also takes a lot of risks with the ball so, like Isco, you would need to take that out of him.  But in terms of physical and technical attributes, there's nothing he can't do in terms of midfield play IF he dedicated himself to it.  I think he has too much flash to ever dedicate himself to being a holding mid though.  Kind of like Juve trying to make Zidane into a holding mid when he first got there... he could do it but didn't want to so he was miserable and it showed in his play.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:19 pm

Morel and Lamina are mediocre players, you really need to stop mentioning them here.

Pep is a genius, a once a generation thinker and coach. Him achieving things no one envisioned before is not the norm, it work for him but not for the rest unless they show it. What has Zidane shown? grand total of zero for now.

And you are using plenty of poor examples.  Alaba has always been a center midfield lol, Pep did not invent anything. What Pep did that was new was using him as a LCB. He is not a traditional defender, so Pep put him in a position where since he is a good athlete he can defend and still leverage his ability to run forward either to join in the midfield or to stretch the pitch. In all situations, he still has his pivot and two CBs staying back.

Yaya was always a talented monster even at a young age, the stuff he is showing now are his natural tendencies, he was doing the same things at Olympiacos. Obviously he matured and added elements to his toolbox. what Pep did at Barca was actually forcing him out of his natural tendencies, but that did not last long and he was quickly replaced by Busquets.

this is yaya at olympiacos, guy has been a talented monster since a very young age lol, put blue on his shirt and that's the yaya you have at city


I am not saying that players cant evolve or play different positions. Physique and technique are one thing, but changing natural tendencies of some players is the most difficult thing. I am saying that Modric has none of the qualities to play Pivot. And as a Pep expert you should see the same...

The only one speculating about what Zidane will do, is you. All i said is let's wait and see how far Zidane take his ideas.


Last edited by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:26 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:20 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
And Pogba can play whatever midfield role he wants to...  he just has to put his mind to it and buy in.  But it would be a waste because he has too many skills.  He also takes a lot of risks with the ball so, like Isco, you would need to take that out of him.  But in terms of physical and technical attributes, there's nothing he can't do in terms of midfield play IF he dedicated himself to it.  I think he has too much flash to ever dedicate himself to being a holding mid though.  Kind of like Juve trying to make Zidane into a holding mid when he first got there... he could do it but didn't want to so he was miserable and it showed in his play.


Agree. Pogba could be everything if he was everything, but he isn't, so he isn't, not because he can't but because he doesn't want to.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by StrugaRock on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:33 pm

Any thoughts on Youri Tielemans? Is he legit? and if yes why are we are not pushing for him

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:39 pm

Except Hans...  Pogba was always deployed as a DM with France NTs until he made the senior team and his youth clubs(Le Havre and Man U) before Juve.  He was great there.  But he just doesn't want to be limited to that role now.  Not sexy enough for him.  It's not some outlandish thing he's never done.  That's all he did until 2012. Heck, he won the best player of the tournament at the U20 WC in summer 2013 and he played DM for that France NT.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:51 pm

Pep and Bielsa didn't start out as cracks... they took risks and their risks mostly paid off. They refused to be in-the-box thinkers. All I'm saying is that Zidane is inspired by these guys and will take risks that will surprise people i think... not this season, but definitely the next.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:06 pm

Looking forward to Zidane taking risks.

Taking FK duties away from Ronaldo would be a brave start.
Let's see what the renegade outside the box thinker Zidane, the desperado, going rogue, only limited by his imagination, does with regards to Ronaldo and free kick duties.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Ah the talent-less troll act... you should silently observe futbol and note how he does it before trying your hand. Most of his trolling is witty at least. Your act is just... well it needs work to put it as politely as i can.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:22 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Ah the talent-less troll act... you should silently observe futbol and note how he does it before trying your hand. Most of his trolling is witty at least. Your act is just... well it needs work to put it as politely as i can.
A bit ironic you say this to someone else here aint it?

You are the one making outlandish predictions that Zidane will bring forth revolutions and predicting what his team will be next season after he has coached two games, because you "know" his ideas

just damn ironic

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:25 pm

I'm not predicting... i'm speculating. That's what message boards are for, no? given Zidane's open admiration for unconventional managers such as Pep, Bielsa and even Gourcuff, i'm speculating that he will try some unconventional things eventually. Is that offensive to you? lol

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:30 pm

No not at all, but when you say BS like "I think Zidane wants to move Modric into the "Pirlo" role and surround him with Isco and Pogba. That's going to be his target midfield for next season." someone has got to call you up on it

speculate away

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Doc on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:36 pm

Baby Futbol is off form these days, his protegees Linetty and Pirlo pulling the slack for him. Hans slip is showing when it comes to his disdain for Madrid and maybe French bias tendencies (even though RWO and himself aren't necessarily innocent with their German bias).


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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:42 pm

Call me on what? That i think Modric can play the Pirlo role and it would work with Pogba and Isco surrounding him?? I think Verratti is very similar to Modric. When Motta was down last season, he had no problem dropping into that role with Rabiot and on the right and Matuidi on the left. Why should Modric have more trouble than Verratti when he's a better player?

Did anyone in their right mind think that Kroos was going to be effective at the role given he was an attacking CM his whole career in Bundi?

And Pirlo... you do realize that Pirlo played most of his prime years in a similar role to what Modric is playing right now. He was covered by Gattuso at Milan and NT for many years. De Rossi then took over for Gattuso on NT. He only took up that deep role in front of the defense under Conte at Juve (which rejuvenated his career because it's less taxing physically).

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:44 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Ah the talent-less troll act... you should silently observe futbol and note how he does it before trying your hand. Most of his trolling is witty at least. Your act is just... well it needs work to put it as politely as i can.


I'm trying my best Proud

Not saying it's much but I'm trying.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:46 pm

It's about building up false credibility and then going for the kill... i don't have the patience for it, but the best trolls have it down to a science.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Doc on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:46 pm

But with all due respect Sport, Isco and Pobga can't/won't do what Gattuso did for Milan. I think someone here actually addressed it as well, Isco, for no lack of effort, simply doesn't have any real defensive qualities and Pobga, for all his talent, won't do that role.

Matuidi and Motta(?) can do that role because their skill set suits it. I just can't see the other accomplishing that meaningfully.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:48 pm

Maybe.

But I'm not actually going for a kill. I just want to accompany your posts with some making fun of. Not mean spirited.

I just think it's funny how Zidane becoming manager got your juices flowing, and you're all excited Proud

Nothing wrong with it, but I'd say with some of the tactical predictions your getting a little bit, or completely lmao, ahead of yourself, though that's probably what you're aiming for.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:58 pm

because the only similarity between Modric and Verratti is their size, they play nothing alike. Besides, we are not talking about what would work one sunday in ligue 1, we are talking about winning football, which whatever it is you described up there isnt.

Pirlo is a football legend who plays again, nothing like Modric. You cant pretend to know so much about the game and then make those sideways comparison as if those guys play the same type of football.

But hey you are speculating, so speculate away, just saying it sounds like a bunch of terrible ideas.

But i will ask, what do all those italian ideas have to with Pep/Bielsa football? nothing. Pep the philosopher got let Bayern get rid of Kroos because he had no plans of using him like a pivot.

Zidane is the rainbow unifying of all football philosophers

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:05 pm

@Doc wrote:But with all due respect Sport, Isco and Pobga can't/won't do what Gattuso did for Milan. I think someone here actually addressed it as well, Isco, for no lack of effort, simply doesn't have any real defensive qualities and Pobga, for all his talent, won't do that role.

Matuidi and Motta(?) can do that role because their skill set suits it. I just can't see the other accomplishing that meaningfully.

That's not what i'm saying though... i'm saying that Modric can play the role Pirlo played at Juve with Isco and Pogba on the sides. The only player changing roles here is Modric. Also pointing out that making the move to the deep role is not something that is very rare.  I gave the example of Pirlo being an advanced CM for many years before dropping low when he moved to Juve.  So i don't see any reason why Modric couldn't do it IF he was ok with the move.  He's certainly far more complete than Kroos.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:14 pm

So Kroos is out then in your opinion, sports?

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:15 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
That's not what i'm saying though... i'm saying that Modric can play the role Pirlo played at Juve with Isco and Pogba on the sides. The only player changing roles here is Modric. Also pointing out that making the move to the deep role is not something that is very rare.  I gave the example of Pirlo being an advanced CM for many years before dropping low when he moved to Juve.  So i don't see any reason why Modric couldn't do it IF he was ok with the move.  He's certainly far more complete than Kroos.


Another post full of holes, players of Pirlo's make up making a move to play in front of the defense is XETREMELY Rare, as matter of fact, i challenge you to find another that did so, played exclusively in that position, and won as much as Pirlo, i.e. league titles, CL, World cup.

Good luck finding another example


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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:18 pm

Good lord Nick... I'm just using an example of a player who played an advanced CM role at a WC level and then moved deep and still was incredible (Pirlo). He was someone that did it without a problem (and there are many others) since you seem to think it's such a huge transition. I'm talking about a player's role in the team shape and how it's not static... as long as it's on the same line, it's a doable transition. It gets a lot more complicated when you ask a player to move to a different line on the team. Not making any stylistic inferences since Modric is a far different player than Pirlo.

As far as someone who plays the deep role and greatly impacts the team attacking flow in a possession-based system... Motta is a good example. He starts low and moves up as the ball moves up with short passing. He sets the tone for PSG. Without Di Maria, he was a lot more involved in the playmaking for them. But now that Angel is there and you have Verratti, he's sitting lower.

I also mentioned that when Motta was out last year at PSG, Verratti dropped low and did pretty well. He lacks discipline so it's tough for him but he did ok. Rabiot was just far too inexperienced and Van Der Wiel was awful... so the combo of all those things was a defensive problem. We have far better players at Madrid than that.

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Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:26 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:So Kroos is out then in your opinion, sports?

Kroos is playing for his Madrid life imo...  he's too limited defensively to be effective low and he's untidy in small spaces to play really high.  He's at his best if he's covered with a DM and can get himself into positions where he can use his long shot and passing range.  But there isn't that role on Madrid so he has to find his area.  Last year, he was impressively good defensively... but that seems like an aberration now.  I hope he finds that form again because it would make things a lot simpler.

Assuming Kroos remains in current form and If James is sold in the summer, then i could see Kroos being moved back left and compete with Isco for that spot.  I just think we need to rethink the deep playing role in terms of who plays it.  Will we move someone internally there (like Modric) or will we buy someone?

My only point is that there's very little proven top talent in the deep playing role... so given that, it's a good spot to take a chance on since you don't have obvious alternatives.  My other point is that, stylistically, Zidane is influenced by and strives to emulate managers that emphasize technique and passing over everything else AND take big chances.  So it's my educated guess given all these factors that the deep playing role is the one spot where Zidane will likely experiment. There's no reason to take chances anywhere else since the players all fit the role (except Ronaldo but that's been discussed ad nausea).

Now i'm done lol.

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