Winter Transfer rumors

Page 6 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:26 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:So Kroos is out then in your opinion, sports?

Kroos is playing for his Madrid life imo...  he's too limited defensively to be effective low and he's untidy in small spaces to play really high.  He's at his best if he's covered with a DM and can get himself into positions where he can use his long shot and passing range.  But there isn't that role on Madrid so he has to find his area.  Last year, he was impressively good defensively... but that seems like an aberration now.  I hope he finds that form again because it would make things a lot simpler.

Assuming Kroos remains in current form and If James is sold in the summer, then i could see Kroos being moved back left and compete with Isco for that spot.  I just think we need to rethink the deep playing role in terms of who plays it.  Will we move someone internally there (like Modric) or will we buy someone?

My only point is that there's very little proven top talent in the deep playing role... so given that, it's a good spot to take a chance on since you don't have obvious alternatives.  My other point is that, stylistically, Zidane is influenced by and strives to emulate managers that emphasize technique and passing over everything else AND take big chances.  So it's my educated guess given all these factors that the deep playing role is the one spot where Zidane will likely experiment. There's no reason to take chances anywhere else since the players all fit the role (except Ronaldo but that's been discussed ad nausea).

Now i'm done lol.

sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Posts : 14869
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:30 pm

Hey you are using the example of a singular legendary player in footy, if it's not as rare as you said, where is another example?

Motta is a deep midfielder through and through, terrible example. find me another "Pirlo" in footy lol. Verratti is a terrible example, stop mentioning it

You arguments is not so different than what Supermag was saying about Ramos playing as DM, but hey you guys are "speculating" no?

I personally cant wait to see who Zidane will "choose" to be his Busquets, if he makes any choice that is... or maybe he can coach James into that role, who knows what the heir or Pep and Bielsa can do

_________________


Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 23571
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:33 pm

Sorry if this is a stupid question... but has Zidane even a contract past this season?

Or is he still a caretaker manager so far?

_________________
avatar
Hapless_Hans
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Bayern Munich
Posts : 19205
Join date : 2013-09-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by StrugaRock on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:36 pm

just a caretaker, he hasn't signed a contract in his presentation day, which in our case we get to see him sign(pictures and videos and sh!t)

_________________
avatar
StrugaRock
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 1252
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:42 pm

Ok Nick... let's go down the list of guys who played multiple CM positions very well.  I'll stay with contemporary names so it's not obscure:
-  Toure
-  Essien
-  Pirlo
-  Gerard
-  Verratti
-  Moutinho
-  Juninho
-  Fabregas (started out as DM with Arsenal)
-  Ramsey
-  Wilshere
-  Ballack
-  Marchisio
-  Zidane
-  Vieira

I mean i could go on and on tbh.  This is just off the top of my head.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14869
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:47 pm

you  describe players of Modric and Pirlo make up, making the move from an attacking position to a single pivot role, you tried going for verratti it didnt work, and then you draw up a list with Essien, Fabregas and Juninho? when is it that in their freaking lives they ever played as single pivot in front of the defense? gerrard rofl

Personally, i dont think you understand what a single pivot means to Pep. that's just my opinion, otherwise you would have never even uttered the name of Modric as a suggestion to play that role for someone you claim is Pep reborn, and then justified it using ideas drawn outta of an Italian playbook, with players like Pogba or Isco who in no way fit the original design as pointed above by Doc.

just my 2 cents


Last edited by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________


Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 23571
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:00 am

Fabregas was a DM when he started at Arsenal and Juninho dropped into the deep playing role late in his Lyon career....  i won't comment further lol.  And i never said that Zizou intended to follow the exact paths of Pep, Bielsa or anyone else.  But he is inspired by them so you can reasonably expect that his stylistic base will emulate aspects of what those guys did/are doing.  I just don't see how that's an unreasonable assumption but you're obviously entitled to your opinion because that's all this is really... opinion.

Your ideas of football are completely different than mine... starting with your original thought that Rafa was a great tactician when we hired him.  I don't really try to call you out because why would i do that.  It's all about expressing thoughts and opinions and, really, there's no right or wrong answer.  But when you start calling others out Nick, then i will call you out.  So i suggest you cut this utterly bs line of conversation pretty short.  

That's just my 2 cents.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14869
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:12 am

And btw, Pirlo never ever played a single line in front of the defense.  He was always flanked by two other players who actually did most of the defensive work.  He was more of a space taker and an immediate outlet in that role so he could get the team to transition to the attack quickly.  Once Juve took possession, then he settled into the midfield general role.

What are you talking about exactly Laughing? Forget it. Don't answer. I really don't care at this point.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14869
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:27 am

Saying that Juninho dropped deep later in his career, lmao, Juninho has always been a deep midfielder, but that's not the point the point is in all the seasons that they won, the guys playing in front of the defense were the likes of Foe, Mamadou Diarra, Toulalan... but who cares about historical accuracy right And fabregas the DM, some rich stuff, leading Arsenal. Was so good and so committed in that role that he started playing behind the striker shortly after... Hans said something about the will of the players, you keep forgetting that...

well, we are on a discussion board right, you express an idea, i say it's BS and you argue why not and i argue why yes. Feel free to call me out on anything, i dont really mind. And yes, Benitez is a great tactician, how is that even up for debate? Being a manager is not about tactics though, since i can pretty much already tell in which direction you would have taken your argument in an argument like that lol

@sportsczy wrote:And btw, Pirlo never ever played a single line in front of the defense.  He was always flanked by two other players who actually did most of the defensive work.  He was more of a space taker and an immediate outlet in that role so he could get the team to transition to the attack quickly.  Once Juve took possession, then he settled into the midfield general role.

What are you talking about exactly Laughing?  Forget it.  Don't answer.  I really don't care at this point.
This is classic back-pedalling, adjust what you said so it sounds better. No player in the history of football ever played on a single line with no help lol, you are not inventing the light bulb here.

Yet, it is factually and accurately true that Pirlo positioned himself infront of the defense and was the start of everything his team initiated. Positions matter in football, and one guy at the wrong place can kill your team. Your argument was to say Modric could do the same surrounded by Pogba-Isco and i said it's BS. I still say it's BS.

What i found shocking was you saying that Zidane is trying to "emulate" Pep and Bielsa, so create a team around the same principles they did, and then suggest he will apply an italian recipe in midfield like Carlo did with Pirlo... Boy you reached. Not even Carlo in Madrid did that, and that says a lot lol.

_________________


Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 23571
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Doc on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:32 am

@sportsczy wrote:
@Doc wrote:But with all due respect Sport, Isco and Pobga can't/won't do what Gattuso did for Milan. I think someone here actually addressed it as well, Isco, for no lack of effort, simply doesn't have any real defensive qualities and Pobga, for all his talent, won't do that role.

Matuidi and Motta(?) can do that role because their skill set suits it. I just can't see the other accomplishing that meaningfully.

That's not what i'm saying though... i'm saying that Modric can play the role Pirlo played at Juve with Isco and Pogba on the sides.  The only player changing roles here is Modric.  Also pointing out that making the move to the deep role is not something that is very rare.  I gave the example of Pirlo being an advanced CM for many years before dropping low when he moved to Juve.  So i don't see any reason why Modric couldn't do it IF he was ok with the move.  He's certainly far more complete than Kroos.

Ooooooooh, Pirlo at Juventus. Hmm, let's assume Modric can do that (which I would like think he can to some degree), it still leaves me with the same issue though, well, for the least half of an issue.

Maybe one can convince Paul to be more defensively, you know, be an actual central midfielder but Isco simply cannot do either Paul's, Marchisio's or Vidal's role (assuming it was anyone of them that played at the "sides", you'll know better). If we still had Di Maria, then yes, I would have probably have some sort of agreement but Isco really isn't a defensive player of any sort.


Last edited by Doc on Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
avatar
Doc
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 8896
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:18 am

It's not the best example. Juve played a 352 so it really won't look anything close to a system based on 3 strikers like we have (or 3 forwards). Besides, Vidal couldn't defend... he just fouled a lot. His biggest attribute was his bulldog attitude and great scoring ability. Pogba did a lot more defending with Vidal there actually.

Do you think Modric would be worse at it than Kroos though? That's my thinking. Kroos is what he is with this strengths and limitations back there. I don't see anyone in the transfer market that can fill the role. Pep converted Lahm and all the other good ones are snatched up by the other elite teams. So instead of having a specialty player back there, i think we'll go with 3 CMs that are expected to do a bit of everything and cover each other. It gives us a lot more options.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14869
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by S on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:47 am

@sportsczy wrote:Besides, Vidal couldn't defend... he just fouled a lot. His biggest attribute was his bulldog attitude and great scoring ability. Pogba did a lot more defending with Vidal there actually.

Sorry to butt in but that is just plain wrong.

Pogba is nowhere near the level of Vidal defensively,infact Allegri still gets frustrated with Pogba because he does silly dribbles in dangerous areas and loses possession.He was doing a lot more of this previously.

Just because Vidal had a bad last yr with Juventus,you cant erase the performances and the defensive shifts he put in previous seasons.In his 1st yr at Juventus,he had the highest tackle rate in Europe and that is when we only had Serie A to play with.

Pogba is an attacking minded midfielder.Just because you want him at Madrid,no need to exaggerate stuff lol.

One thing though,his passing has improved by a lot.He's kind of become a through ball specialist off late.

_________________

S
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 21318
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:19 am

I meant his last year...  Vidal was the best overall CM behind only Xavi, Iniesta and Pirlo the year before his last one imo.  But in his last season, he was really poor and it forced Pogba to do a lot more running than previously... also due to Pirlo just really being non-existent defensively (he didn't even get in the way anymore).

I also thought that Pogba was far more a CM and far less an attacking mid with both Pirlo and Vidal going strong... he was asked to play a lot simpler. Only when those two started fade did Pogba dribble, shoot and attack so much. Seems it was by necessity and it stuck. Making him a 10 was a massive mistake however. He is not that.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14869
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by chad4401 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:45 am

@S wrote:
Pogba is an attacking minded midfielder.Just because you want him at Madrid,no need to exaggerate stuff lol.

yup and he plan to come up with more reasons why pogba> every midfielder that ever existed.

_________________
avatar
chad4401
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 4045
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by S on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:22 am

@sportsczy wrote:I meant his last year...  Vidal was the best overall CM behind only Xavi, Iniesta and Pirlo the year before his last one imo.  But in his last season, he was really poor and it forced Pogba to do a lot more running than previously... also due to Pirlo just really being non-existent defensively (he didn't even get in the way anymore).

I also thought that Pogba was far more a CM and far less an attacking mid with both Pirlo and Vidal going strong... he was asked to play a lot simpler.  Only when those two started fade did Pogba dribble, shoot and attack so much.  Seems it was by necessity and it stuck.  Making him a 10 was a massive mistake however.  He is not that.


I would agree he's improved defensively but he still makes the same mistakes.He is still the weakest midfielder in the team from a defensive point of view.

Pogba's best phase last season came when Pirlo was injured and Marchisio slotted in place of him in the regista role.Its pretty much the same this season.When Marchisio was out,he was trying to do everything by himself and he failed massively.

Now that he has Marchisio covering him,he's able to express himself freely and be more imposing.

Now i wont give expertise on how or if a Pogba-Modric-Isco midfield would work because honestly,i thought Alonso-Modric-Di Maria would be a bit light defensively back then too,but it worked fine.

_________________

S
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 21318
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by StrugaRock on Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:23 am

Modric at that role sounds good and interesting, but considering that Pogba and Isco will cover him, and on the wings you've got players like Bale, Ronaldo, James, Jese, I think is a no go. True that Pirlo had a great time playing as a DM without being a DM, but he had a monster in Gattuso to cover him(and not forgetting those God like defenders) and in Juve days he had a work horse in Vidal. None of Isco, Kroos, or even Pogba could do that.... yet.

_________________
avatar
StrugaRock
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 1252
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Doc on Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:23 pm

And don't forget the very much overlooked Ambrosini.

_________________
avatar
Doc
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 8896
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: Winter Transfer rumors

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 6 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum