Carlo Ancelotti questions Benítez's sacking: "Is it really always the manager's fault at Real Madrid?"

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Post by guest7 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:56 am

I do not question Benitez sacking - it was well deserved. The team looked demotivated and not interested at all, tactically we were not up to par and the team didn't look connected or fluid at all.

But it has to be said that the team is lacking technical players, dribblers, real creative geniuses.

Zidane is doing the right things and he is fit for the job IMO. (judging by social media so far the team looks really excited etc.) And he is creative himself, adding new aspects to our game and maybe got that magic touch that will bring it to us.

Barca was great because of Messi. Now they're even better with Neymar, Messi, Suarez. We should have gotten Suarez when he was available IMO.

Just an idea in my head I really like the idea of Zlatan, CR and Bale. Great shooters and all three are great headers etc. Just an idea I like.

Also all that BS about Ronaldo needs to stop he is clearly our best player and it's amazingly frustrating to read the BS spread about him. Just shows the average intelligence on this board...
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Post by Claudio84 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:40 pm

He's not aiming at the Players, he's aiming at Florentino and the board.

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Post by guest7 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:55 pm

The president influence on how good we play is really limited.

It really isn't his fault if we lose. All he does is control our squad/transfers. I doubt he is aiming at Florentino.

The manager also picks his own transfers.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:12 pm

Sports answered this well in another thread. If you take a look at Florentino's sack history over his second stint at the club, only one wasn't legit.

1. Pelle had to go, especially when his replacement was a treble-winning coach.

2. Mou had to go in his third year because he lost everybody and the atmosphere was irreversibly toxic.

3. Rafa had to go, and I think I don't even have to explain why.

4. The only one whose sacking didn't make sense was Carlo, not because he didn't deserve to be sacked but because there was nobody better available to replace him with.

Carlo is a gentleman and rarely ever does he speak his mind publicly - and even when he does, he makes sure to keep it vague and open to many interpretations. The criticism was meant at Florentino, that's clear. But you could read between the lines here and conclude that he wasn't criticizing his ruthless sacking approach so much as his tactically nonsensical signings.

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Post by Perucho21 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:21 pm

Zlatan CR and Bale in the same team?

Shoot me now

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:26 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:Sports answered this well in another thread. If you take a look at Florentino's sack history over his second stint at the club, only one wasn't legit.

1. Pelle had to go, especially when his replacement was a treble-winning coach.

2. Mou had to go in his third year because he lost everybody and the atmosphere was irreversibly toxic.

3. Rafa had to go, and I think I don't even have to explain why.

4. The only one whose sacking didn't make sense was Carlo, not because he didn't deserve to be sacked but because there was nobody better available to replace him with.

Carlo is a gentleman and rarely ever does he speak his mind publicly - and even when he does, he makes sure to keep it vague and open to many interpretations. The criticism was meant at Florentino, that's clear. But you could read between the lines here and conclude that he wasn't criticizing his ruthless sacking approach so much as his tactically nonsensical signings.


This love for Carlo is over the top. He ran 12 players into the ground for 2 consecutive seasons missing the liga and Cl in last season all because he refused to use his squad. There is accountability in these top jobs and he had to go. The fact that his replacement wasn't up to the job is irrelevant to Carlo's dismissal.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:56 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:This love for Carlo is over the top. He ran 12 players into the ground for 2 consecutive seasons missing the liga and Cl in last season all because he refused to use his squad. There is accountability in these top jobs and he had to go. The fact that his replacement wasn't up to the job is irrelevant to Carlo's dismissal.

I agree with everything you said except for the part in bold which you unintentionally, slightly paraphrased. I didn't say Carlo didn't deserve to be sacked. I said you shouldn't sack him when there's nobody better available. What's the point of firing someone when you know their replacement won't do a better job or even be able to match them?

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:43 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:This love for Carlo is over the top. He ran 12 players into the ground for 2 consecutive seasons missing the liga and Cl in last season all because he refused to use his squad. There is accountability in these top jobs and he had to go. The fact that his replacement wasn't up to the job is irrelevant to Carlo's dismissal.

I agree with everything you said except for the part in bold which you unintentionally, slightly paraphrased. I didn't say Carlo didn't deserve to be sacked. I said you shouldn't sack him when there's nobody better available. What's the point of firing someone when you know their replacement won't do a better job or even be able to match them?

Thumbs up

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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:45 pm

bill is right no matter who predicted what, carlo sacking was earned, what if rafa had us playing great? what then?

rafa overall project might have failed, but he did some good with benz and bale, finally proving that cr carrying madrid is a hoax, now everybody without a doubt have to acknowledge it, something carlo wouldn't have done, so that a lone makes sacking carlo worth it.

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:52 pm

That's ridiculous Chad...  as an executive, you assess the quality of a manager based on what he has done, both long term and short term.  Under no circumstances, and i mean NONE, could you reasonably expect Rafa to do a better job than Carlo. You only take action if taking such action has a better probability of leading to success than maintaining the status quo.

In fact, firing Carlo to hire Rafa is gross negligence to me by Flo.


Last edited by sportsczy on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:52 pm

You guys are basically saying there isn't a coach out there that can be as good or better than Carlo. I highly doubt that. Just because Perez didn't select the right one doesn't make Carlo's sacking wrong.

When a CEO of a large company doesn't meet his accountabilities, he (or she) is let go and then the search is on. They don't select the replacement before the sacking.


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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:53 pm

Sports, you more than most should understand about corporate accountabilities.
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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:54 pm

The next one that should be sacked is Perez!
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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:54 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:You guys are basically saying there is coach out there that can be as good or better than Carlo. I highly doubt that. Just because Perez didn't select the right one doesn't make Carlo's sacking wrong.

When a CEO of a large company doesn't meet his accountabilities, he (or she) is let go and then the search is on. They don't select the replacement before the sacking.

That's false Bill. Only the reckless companies fire a CEO if they don't feel that the alternate plan will lead to improvement... you never fire someone just to fire them. You figure out why the objectives weren't met and then you look at whether it's likely that, under different leadership, such objectives would have been met.

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:57 pm

That's why i thought Klopp was the replacement and i was happy about that... he was the one manager out there that was a justifiable and viable alternative to Carlo.  But Rafa?  Come on now.  That was a pure emotional hire with absolutely no data to back it up.

Even Flo said at the time "I think it would be nice for Madrid to have a Spanish manager again."  What kind of ridiculous logic is that?

Zidane is a gamble too.... but at least there weren't better alternatives to him available right now AND the locker room dysfunction had forced Rafa's firing. There were mitigating circumstances here that forced the timing.

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:07 pm

Still back to saying there aren't other managers out there. It's like saying a corporation wouldn't let the CEO who didn't meet accountabilities out of fear there weren't viable alternatives available in the marketplace!!

It doesn't take a rocket scentist to figure out why Carlo didn't meet his accountabilities. There is a reason a coach is given a full squad. His choice of not using it, two years in a row is his downfall.
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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:08 pm

@sportsczy wrote:That's ridiculous Chad...  as an executive, you assess the quality of a manager based on what he has done, both long term and short term.  Under no circumstances, and i mean NONE, could you reasonably expect Rafa to do a better job than Carlo. You only take action if taking such action has a better probability of leading to success than maintaining the status quo.

In fact, firing Carlo to hire Rafa is gross negligence to me by Flo.


sorry but that makes no sense, look at luis enrique nobody thought he would lead barca towards a treble, especially after the start they had, now he is manager of the year, would you fire carlo and hire enrique before his barca job?

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Post by titosantill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:17 pm

for me its not about "the best coach" but the best fit. its easier for me to pick out the best coach in something like basketball, because the manager has a strong influence in calling plays, compared to football, where coaches problems can be masked by the right players

for madrid, at the time, mourinho was a good fit because the players needed a kick up the ass losing to the likes of lyon in the second round. same with capello, he was a good fit at the time cos we lacked discipline. rafa was a foolish move and didn't fit any category at all. on all levels, discipline, charisma, player-relations, his just concluded season, he was the exact opposite of what the club wanted/needed. the only thing he had going for him was he is from madrid :facepalm: i don't know if klopp was the right fit either.

i really like klopp, but he seems like a "build from the ground up" kind of guy. so too simeone, and i really respect that. any half decent manager can coach certain top sides, but building with little resources i respect. it doesn't mean they would be the right fit at madrid, where players aren't looking for a cult of personality, but someone who can stare the boat just right.

i agree, based on rafa's previous work it was absolute insanity that we made such a move
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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:23 pm

nobody knew that for sure at the time, regardless of track record my point still stands, nobody knows what gonna happen until it does, its easy to say this and that about rafa after the fact, but if flo wants to give him a chance so be it.

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:30 pm

You guys are trying to figure out Flo's thought process! This is the same guy that dictates transfer policy based on marketability. The same guy that bought Bale, Beckham, and wouldn't pay Makelele becuase he was just defense! He never has been phrased for his selection thought process, his analysis or due diligence.

He clearly blew it, but again that has nothing to do with Carlo being sacked.

I am of the opinion (and by the way, i'm not the only socio with this view) that this club will not be winning anything until both Ronaldo AND Perez are gone.
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Post by titosantill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:31 pm

carlo's sacking was reckless...he deserved to be sacked, but it was reckless. when you have top players saying publicly "this guy should stay", you can't just ignore that. and if you do, you'd have to make sure u're bringing in someone with the right personality. its moves like these that cause friction between director and personnel. i don't think rafa making any player better justifies his rubbish, especially when its only 2 players out of a 22 man squad, and 2 players who would start under any coach regardless. its not about the best coach, but the best fit. ancelotti deserved at least a year, and if he messed up sack him......but don't replace him with a clown

true nobody knows what's going to happen, it doesn't mean you get yourself involved in unnecessary risk. a janitor could work his way up and somehow get to a high position in a company and hit a profit. doesn't mean we all go out and start getting janitors to cut the budgets. rafa was never going to cut it...just look at the basis on why he was hired; if benitez was from anywhere besides madrid, florentino won't have hired him....just think about that. its not about him being worse or better than carlo, he wasn't a good fit. he'd be perfect at a smaller club
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Post by titosantill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:35 pm

@futbol_bill, cristiano going is realistic. the biggest problem with florentino however is, we've not even heard one voice that can be a potential candidate publicly disagree with him. that tells me there may not be potential suitors for the role. i hear calderon bash him, but calderon's a crook, lol calderon's the kind of guy that will take the club out of the members hands and sell it to some guy in qatar or china. my thing is, we don't know any potential suitors. if we did and they spoke up i'd be perfectly fine with that. as it stands, we are stuck with florentino, we must understand that
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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:42 pm

@chad4401 wrote:bill is right no matter who predicted what, carlo sacking was earned, what if rafa had us playing great? what then?

rafa overall project might have failed, but he did some good with benz and bale, finally proving that cr carrying madrid is a hoax, now everybody without a doubt have to acknowledge it, something carlo wouldn't have done, so that a lone makes sacking carlo worth it.


they did good, but the worst start of a season we've had in 6 years came at the same time CR's form dropped. Benz and Bale did sth wrong I guess.

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:44 pm

You haven't heard of Eugenio Martinez Bravo and Plataforma Blanca? Perez has change the presidential eligibility rules, but there is opposition to him and it is mounting. I would go as far to say that if he had persisted with Rafa, he would have been gone next summer. Those that have been saying that if Zidane doesn't make it, it will be the end of Perez are not that far off of reality.
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Post by titosantill on Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:04 pm

@futbol_bill, i heard of bravo when he wanted to run the last time. and he backed down. that tells me he wasn't ready; at least not from a financial standpoint. and that was less than five years ago, i doubt he's ready now. as much as we may not like it, the financial aspects are crucial to running a club such as this. i agree with you, zidane messing up will definitely spell the end of florentino...but i would still like to know that its someone reasonable taking the reigns, and someone who at least is fiscally responsibe. the devil i know is better than the angel i don't.
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