Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

RealGunner wrote:No idea where Basildon is but it sounds like a made up name

This is where I live

Thurrock

It's like someone drunk is trying to say THE ROCK HAS COME BACK TO VOTE LEAVEEEE

About 20 mins away from where I live and a shithole


So anyway, I woke up and found the pound coins in my wallet have disintegrated. Was supposed to be doing grocery shopping today but now worried a tin of smart-price beans is going to cost me £30.

But it's okay because when I'm on my farm in Cornwall I can grow my own beans.

Remember this beauty ffs

Wyatt family brexit working class promo ffs

Made a sandwich just now, but I dropped it on the way to the living room

According to culinary experts on Sky Living, it's due to Brexit. their opinion is that my sandwich could have been saved if only we'd chosen to stay in the EU, but since we're out, I can never make another sandwich again

@Tomwin

BTW talking about referendums in Germany - I totally forgot that in Germany we cannot do any referendums like the UK Brexit thing, as in the Grundgesetz ("Basic Law", the constitution of Germany) there are only two types of a mandatory binding referendum on the federal level - for changing the constitution and for changing the state territories.

Yikes and I thought England had it bad in terms of democracy

Lex wrote:Made a sandwich just now, but I dropped it on the way to the living room

According to culinary experts on Sky Living, it's due to Brexit. their opinion is that my sandwich could have been saved if only we'd chosen to stay in the EU, but since we're out, I can never make another sandwich again

Can you even afford to put anything in the sandwich

@Lex

Germany consists of a couple of federal states, and within the federal states there are different laws on referendums concerning the states. So People do have a say, but just not on the federal stratum. That way Germany as country keeps one voice, even though the states could have different ideas on some things.

Oh by the way - wasn't much of the Brexit vote about getting rid of David Cameron?

Now I wonder about one thing - one big complaint from the Brexit side was that "We can vote out our government, but we can't vote out the EU big wigs".

So wouldn't have it been more sensible to actually vote out Cameron and his cronies without throwing all the toys out of the pram? I mean, couldn't you have done something like a "constructive vote of no confidence"?

@rwo

Didn't know that, strange one

@Tomwin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_vote_of_no_confidence

Anybody see this from Farage btw?

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/746218028195426305

Politicking 101: don't say part of your campaign was a mistake when people have voted because of that mistake.

And this guy is one of the most influential men in the country

Also:

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/746279848180592640

Good to know so many people thought hard about this vote.

ES wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClrZpHKWMAAB46h.jpg

I think this is a good point. To me, this referendum has a lot to do with nostalgia for a British identity and the older you are, the more of an issue with change you have. Not to say that not every vote should be equal, but certainly for huge long term decisions like this shouldn't the "elders" take into account what the people that will actually live with the decisions they make want?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

ES wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClrZpHKWMAAB46h.jpg

I think this is a good point. To me, this referendum has a lot to do with nostalgia for a British identity and the older you are, the more of an issue with change you have. Not to say that not every vote should be equal, but certainly for huge long term decisions like this shouldn't the "elders" take into account what the people that will actually live with the decisions they make want?

You actually just described a big problem of democracy.

People, in large numbers, who won't have to live with the choice they made decided for people who will.

BTW, I just read up on the tory party as I wondered why they are called "tories"... Here's what Wikipedia gives:

The word "Tory" derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí: outlaw, robber or brigand, from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit", since outlaws were "pursued men"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

ES wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClrZpHKWMAAB46h.jpg

I think this is a good point. To me, this referendum has a lot to do with nostalgia for a British identity and the older you are, the more of an issue with change you have. Not to say that not every vote should be equal, but certainly for huge long term decisions like this shouldn't the "elders" take into account what the people that will actually live with the decisions they make want?

They take into account what they think is better for the young. They take into account the interests of the dead, the living, and the not yet born, it is Burke's social contract for the ages and a foundation of British tradition. This of course requires viewing society in a certain way. Still, it seems somewhat more wholesome than the rampant narcissism in the millennial generation.

rwo power wrote:BTW, I just read up on the tory party as I wondered why they are called "tories"... Here's what Wikipedia gives:

The word "Tory" derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí: outlaw, robber or brigand, from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit", since outlaws were "pursued men"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory

The issue in the UK.... the US and many other elite western countries... is that, although there has been unprecedented wealth creation over the past 15-20 years, that wealth has landed in the pockets of the very few as opposed to the majority of people.  As a result, a significant portion of the population has been left behind and resent it.  In fact, their standard of living has eroded despite having to work harder than ever.  This leads to populist issues and candidates gaining traction and becoming viable political alternatives....  hence Brexit, Donald Trump, Sanders, Front National, etc.

They don't gain traction because the disgruntled masses will be better off as a result of supporting them... they gain traction because the DMs (disgruntled masses) feel as if anything is better than what they're currently experiencing.  Of course, they are wrong because things are likely to get worse as a result.  BUT, these countries are democracies and you will suffer the consequences of ignoring large portions of the population.

Only in democracies does every person get 1 vote regardless of influence... it's a system of checks and balances.

Now, politicians have to take into account the will of the people and adjust.

Betty La Fea wrote:You actually just described a big problem of democracy.

People, in large numbers, who won't have to live with the choice they made decided for people who will.

Well in 99% of elections that result won't last more than 4 years, this one is different though, and that is perhaps an argument against referendums

Jay29 wrote:Anybody see this from Farage btw?

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/746218028195426305


Politicking 101: don't say part of your campaign was a mistake when people have voted because of that mistake.

And this guy is one of the most influential men in the country

Also:

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/746279848180592640

Good to know so many people thought hard about this vote.

Thing is farage never said all that money would go to the nhs. The 350 million figure was on the vote leaves group bus. Not farages grassroots out campaign. Hes not even an mp

Jay29 wrote:Also:

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/746279848180592640

Good to know so many people thought hard about this vote.

reads like an Onion article

You dumb tits, Brits.

M99 wrote:

Unique wrote:

RealGunner wrote:


Imagine you are living on little money provided by the government so you can find an actual job but you can't because you are uneducated and spend most of your money on Alcohol and shit.

Your neighbour is a foreigner who works in a factory and earns more. He can afford most of the stuff you can't. Then you see 5-10 of those types of foreigners in your area. They have now opened shops and stuff because of the money they earned. While you still can't be bothered improving your own life

you start feeling contempt against them. Why are they living so happily and you aren't? you feel like they are stealing your job and your money because this is your country and it should be 'your right' to it and not theirs.


That is the immigration problem we have in poor areas of England.

But this is different to uncontrolled immigration which Tom mentioned.

yeah it's got nothing to do with schools being over crowded or a housing shortage has it. I mean people don't care about the nhs being run into the ground because it can't cope with the overload. No people are only worried about imagration because some polish dude owns a shop. What a load of bollox mate.

Are you offended because he described you?

I'm no more of a benefit scrounger than you are a terrorist mate. but hey. you never know

Jay29 wrote:

RealGunner wrote:No idea where Basildon is but it sounds like a made up name

This is where I live

Thurrock

It's like someone drunk is trying to say THE ROCK HAS COME BACK TO VOTE LEAVEEEE

About 20 mins away from where I live and a shithole


So anyway, I woke up and found the pound coins in my wallet have disintegrated. Was supposed to be doing grocery shopping today but now worried a tin of smart-price beans is going to cost me £30.

But it's okay because when I'm on my farm in Cornwall I can grow my own beans.

so your a Basildon lad. you live right across the drink from me.

DagenhamDave wrote:Thing is farage never said all that money would go to the nhs. The 350 million figure was on the vote leaves group bus. Not farages grassroots out campaign. Hes not even an mp

Even still, imagine waking up this morning, having voted Leave for the sake of increased NHS funding, only to find out you voted on a lie or half-truth? It doesn't matter now as the votes have been cast but for me the idea that such a huge, unprecedented decision has been made on the back of misinformation is concerning.

so your a Basildon lad. you live right across the drink from me.

Born and raised in Basildon to parents from Romford, though I can't say I identify much with Essex culture.

The biggest concern is how democracy can be so dangerous when left to a bunch of retards on either side of any vote who know literally nothing yet can change the world.

I rarely get political, but I hope the result of the EU referendum for those of us who are legitimately concerned about where government is leading humanity has taught us a few things about not only the UK and the EU, but the rest of the world because politics work the same everywhere else. Number one it has to put to rest the incredulous notion that people in power and of higher class are white supremacist/racists. This ideology that wealth, white supremacy and racism go hand-in-hand is severly untrue and a hand played by political parties to get the attention and support of the masses who are on the other side of the class and ethnic scale. Blind following and blind nationalism is a result of this. Resulting in political parties/leaders making promises that will rarely ever be eventuated. Just look at Nigel Farage, the leave campaign promised that money would go to the NHS but when asked today he said there are no plans in motion for this to happen. But most importantly, look at the relationship between remain/leave voters and education. Highly educated and multiethnic regions such as London, Manchester and Cardiff all voted to remain in the EU (I'll leave Scotland out because they had more varied reasons to vote remain). While Little England, the lesser educated and lesser culturally diverse regions overwhelmingly voted in favour of Britain to leave the EU. Could it ever be more obvious that level of education plays a more crucial role in the decisonmaking which creates power dynamics and wealth distribution across the population and this whole fracas leads to xenophobia and racism? This is how people like Farage and Donald Trump gets us. I hope the US and the rest of the world are paying heed.

Important to note that I'm not generalising here, Tom. But I'm talking about majorities.