GAME OF THRONES - PART 7 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

Ramsay has never shown to be a warrior though nor a fighter. Why do you think he backed out of a 1 on 1 lol? He knew he would get wrecked.

There are over 20-30 people in Westeros who can beat him

Jon Snow was raised as if he were one of Ned's own kids and was given the weapons training of a young Lord. Ramsey was treated like a bastard and not given any of these benefits. It would have been stupid of him to accept.

Again Ramsey is only really proficient with a bow and arrow. He is not castle raised and doesn't have the close range weapons expertise of Jon.

Jesus that was a great episode.

Only gripe with the episode is Rickon running in a straight line...why....why..... , all these Starks seem to be really dim

He is smart enough to avoid a fight not to win it


He has never had a 1 on 1 fight before. He couldn't actually do anything against Jon. Plus remember how shocked Ramsay was after losing the battle so he knew it was not worth fighting anyways.

Jon is a top 3 fighter in Westeros. Ramsay won't make top 30

RealGunner wrote:Ramsay has never shown to be a warrior though nor a fighter. Why do you think he backed out of a 1 on 1 lol? He knew he would get wrecked.

There are over 20-30 people in Westeros who can beat him

I wouldn'T be too sure about it. He didn't go in 1on1 because that's basically 50/50 unless it's like the Mountain against Sansa; he had the superior army and made the smart call.

But remember when Theon Greyjoy was almost freed by his sister? Ramsay went all blood-crazy then, half-naked and with sword and axe in hand had no qualms about going into the thick of battle. I'm pretty sure he would've had a decent chance in a fight. He just fancied his chances in a military engagement more.

Edit: Also the one 1on1 Jon has properly had before was against that knife-wielding former Nights Watchmen who was in the uprising at Craster's keep, and he needed some random Craster's wife to save him.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Jon Snow was raised as if he were one of Ned's own kids and was given the weapons training of a young Lord. Ramsey was treated like a bastard and not given any of these benefits. It would have been stupid of him to accept.

Has that actually been established though?
I assumed Ramsey was pretty much castle rased as well, and had mostly the same training as Jon did, though maybe with some emotional abuse thrown in for good measure.

VivaStPauli wrote:
Has that actually been established though?
I assumed Ramsey was pretty much castle rased as well, and had mostly the same training as Jon did, though maybe with some emotional abuse thrown in for good measure.

It is in the books at least. From the ASOIAF Wiki: Ramsay, though savage in battle, was never officially taught at arms. His tutor in martial prowess was Reek, his serving man, who had never received any sword training himself. Ramsay's swordsmanship style is vicious and highly aggressive, wielding his sword as if it were a butcher's cleaver.

Basically he gets by on account of aggresiveness and strength, but wouldn't stand a chance against someone with real martial training.

Your answer lies in the meeting held between the two the day before the battle:

Jon: Thousands of men don't need to die, only one of us. Let's end this the old you: you (Ramsey) against me.

Ramsey: I keep hearing stories about you, bastard. The way people in the North talk about you, you're the greatest swordsman who ever walked. Maybe you are that good, maybe not. I don't know if I'd beat you, but I know that my army will beat yours. I have 6 thousand men, you have, what? Half that? Not even?

Jon: yeah you have the numbers. Will your men fight for you when they hear you wouldn't fight for them?

As you can see here Ramsey chickened out. He may be a smart person, but he's also a coward. He knew perfectly well that he wouldn't stand a chance against Jon.

He's a great fighter as long as those he's fighting are in chains. He's a sadistic sick, deeply disturbed person, but he's also a fantastic military strategist.

One on one against Jon, he'd get murdered.

Jon even from the books, ain't the best swordsman. At least up to where the books are at. Obviously the frakking Valyrian steel blade helps out a bit, but he's gotten beat up or overwhelmed by quite a few characters. I am very sure he'd beat Ramsey, though... Ramsey's a big bully and not exactly the type of in-your-face warrior. Which is why his weapon of choice is the bow. And he never dismounts. I don't think he's ever been in a battle where he's been against the odds. I know this doesn't say anything about his fighting prowess, but a bastard's a bastard in the GoT universe (apart from Jon, duh). He's not a natural warrior, just a natural sadistic shitstain.

Good episode. Great battle scenes really bring you into account of what a battle should be... confusing, bloody, muddy and with a thousand things happening at once. Awesome shots, especially that one shot with Jon just murdering randomly and stumbling into what may be friend or foes. The anti-arrow forcefield was hilarious indeed, but it was great just letting him lose out some of that Stark tightassedness.

F*** you, Sansa. Seriously, f*** you. Stubborn and proud like your stupid mother. F*** you. She demands to be considered during the war council, "knows nothing about war", but hides the fact she has a f***ing cavalry company under her command? How about you spill the beans and the whole battle strategy is reprogrammed with that big assed reserve in place? It would have ended the battle with minimum loses. You have wildings and a f***ing giant Lord fighting thousands of Kms from their homes, so you can get your castle back and you just decide to hide that and show up whenever its convenient? How about if the forcefield weren't there and Jon dies? What then?

I know it was probably for dramatic effect, but all these flanking cavalry charges right in the nick of time are getting on my nerves. And stupid Sansa.

All cool apart from that. Loved the Mereen banter and the dragon pornfest. They are indeed beautiful in their new renderings.

Sansa was completely wrong to hide it... but with hindsight we know that Jon would have fallen into the trap and ruined their plan even if they had cavalry. So the way it played out proved her right.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sansa was completely wrong to hide it... but with hindsight we know that Jon would have fallen into the trap and ruined their plan even if they had cavalry. So the way it played out proved her right.

But telling Jon would have strengthened her point!

"Jon, don't be a hothead, Ramsey's a crazy bastard and he will probably use Rickon to rile you out. HOLD THE LINE. I have the Arryn's cavalry lined up to flank them once they are engaged with you! HOLD THE LINE."

Instead, we got a sissy fit about how much she knows Ramsey and that he's crazy. Are we just gonna let Rickon die? Blank stare from her... WTF?

Without hindsight, we don't know how Jon would have reacted if he knew that information! He could have screwed the plan up and charged all the same... but then we'd call Jon an idiot, not Sansa a bitch for withholding some very valuable  information which could have saved lives, lives needed to retake the North and lives needed to fight the WW.

Sansa: If Ramsey wins, I'm not going back their alive. Do you understand me.

Jon: I won't ever let him touch you again. I'll protect you. I promise.

Sansa: No-one can protect me. No-one can protect anyone...


Ugh...he's trying his hardest. Shut up...

Is Jon Snow really a top 5 swordsman in Westeros now? What about...ummm...how about...err....crap...is everyone dead?

nichabr wrote:
Only gripe with the episode is Rickon running in a straight line...why....why..... , all these Starks seem to be really dim

Funny enough even though I'm always complaining, I have to defend this one.
It's not a gun.
People who know their stuff say the bow he was using wouldn't be precise enough over a distance like that to allow Ramsay a certain hit on target, he would just aim for an area.. thus serpentining wouldn't do any good, just slow you down.

They didnt even give Rickon 1 frickin dialogue since his return. dat plan to make him completely alien and unattached to the viewers and Stark loyalists so that they could kill him off meekly.
I fukin hate D&D right now.
That genius Sapochnik saved their asses this time. And its been like that for a while now. Overrated poses.

Would you really have wanted scenes of Ramsay torturing a small boy?

They could have included a small convo between him and Osha. Them saying something. anything. I mean its not like they were some pleb side characters like the Sand snakes. Osha and Rickon were very much part of the game in the 1st 3 seasons. Even a 1-2 minute sequence involving them in the prison cells talking would have made sense and it would have given us some level of satisfaction.  And they could have followed it with that Osha-Ramsay scene.

Blue Barrett wrote:I wondered why he didn't shoot Jon first instead of Wun Wun. Jon was vulnerable to any arrow at that point, before he quickly picked up a shield.

Thats how Ramsay's is. I liked that part actually. Wun Wun was going down bit by bit. Jon was having a nice parting moment with him. Ramsay was standing waiting and watching this whole development. And as soon as Jon is about to touch Wun, Ramsay sensed the window and sent the final shot to kill the giant.
That one sequence basically explains everything about Ramsay. For him its all a game. He loves torturing and inflicting psychological damage on his foes. Killing them slowly.
He could have killed Jon at that instant. But he chose to once again deflate Jon's morale by taking Wun Wun's life instead. Thats the way he likes to play the game lol. So no surprises there imo, what he did was exactly in line with his character..

As predicted.

"[Ghost] was in there in spades originally, but it's also an incredibly time consuming and expensive character to bring to life," "Ultimately we had to choose between Wun-Wun and the direwolf, so the dog bit the dust."
-Sapochnik

Just seen another one