In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by titosantill on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:21 pm

i still maintain that, if we want a shift away from status-quo, new formations or players who should be in the lineup is what is to be suggested. i made this point millions of times and i'll say it again

'pellegrini, mourinho, ancelotti, rafa, zidane- all coaches with different styles; ancelotti in particular talked up playing with the ball when he arrived. none of those coaches has been able to shift the team from a counter attacking system. at one point do we go maybe it has to do with personnel'? the squad has largely been the same for ancelotti rafa and zidane....and mind you, ancelotti's bayern (i know its still early days) isn't playing the same way his madrid side was playing

do the math, try and eliminate the constants

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by titosantill on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:27 pm

@adit, who do you suggest we drop, what formation do you suggest we go for, and who do you suggest we replace the coach with if necessary? as we have all mentioned zidane is a new coach, he is not going to pluck some great system out of the sky. for things to change to something people may want, it seems reasonable to me to suggest the shape of the team and how it suits certain game plans....leopards can't change their spots.....different coaches have come and gone, still the same leopard. to me, that means something
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:27 pm

@titosantill wrote:lol del bosque, del bosque's no different, he's a good man-manager, will let the inmates run the asylum....sometimes that's what's needed. but when people talk up tactical nuances, structures and innovation with regards the playing style, i seriously doubt mr del bosque's the one you want. is it of any surprise that when spain's slow shift away from their normal style, due to old legs happened that del bosque couldn't restructure something different?

i like the guy, good coach, he knows how to get his players to get along, that's his biggest asset. was the perfect guy to take over from aragones, as he wasn't going to rock the boat. if you're looking for someone to lighten up the mood after in-house fighting, he's your bet. if you're looking for some tactical innovation (which many are looking for), i doubt he's the one.....not to mention he hates florentino with a passion, and rightly so. he has turned down offers to receive lifetime awards at madrid, what makes y'all think he wants to work with florentino full time?


Tito, I didn't for a minute think that Del Bosque would come back to coach, it was just Sports' denial of anything not French. Tell me any other coach that has a many trophies in his resume as Del Bosque. i agree his last few years are not something to brag about, but if you look at his entire coaching career (for that matter even his playing days), there isn't anyone better IMO.
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Adit on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:29 pm

I actually see similarities between Zidanes Madrid and Pellegrinies City. No game plan, lack of identity and barely dominates against good teams.

@vandeez , sorry for not addressing you. Last post I wrote my views.



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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by titosantill on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:35 pm

mourinho also had a great record before he joined us, and reasonable record against barcelona prior to his madrid years....it didn't help much. if you don't think del bosque will come back as coach, then why bring his name up as a potential candidate? scratch to be fair, it wasn't you that brought up del bosque's name initially. but i maintain my stance about him. a great resume to his name though. but as i've realized with madrid over the years, we have the tendency to make people (players and coaches) with great resumes look ordinary
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Adit on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:51 pm

@titosantill wrote:@adit, who do you suggest we drop, what formation do you suggest we go for, and who do you suggest we replace the coach with if necessary? as we have all mentioned zidane is a new coach, he is not going to pluck some great system out of the sky. for things to change to something people may want, it seems reasonable to me to suggest the shape of the team and how it suits certain game plans....leopards can't change their spots.....different coaches have come and gone, still the same leopard. to me, that means something

I really don't think there is anything wrong with our formation. We just like most big teams want to dominate the ball and for that 433 is a good formation for a 4 at back set up.

I believe we are badly coached. I fail to see what tactical advantage Zidane has brought to the team. This is the the same football some one like Pellegrini played with City, except we have our individual brilliance to bail us out. What we need is efficiency in possession and ability to bring the ball to dangerous situations even when we are pressed. The fact that we only starts playing in second halfs in all these games is related to our inability to cope with even slight pressure by the opponent. We are too close in possession or too far apart, camping in box for a cross when it should only be used in desperate situations. When you camp in the box opponent defenders also camp in the box effectively b killing any chance of any one on one chance creation.I could go on about this.

There are players who I think are hindering our potential and tactics however. Those are Ronaldo and Benzema. Very low workrate players and when paired that produces a devastating effect on our ball winning ability which inturn forces the rest of the team to play it safe defensively and gives no room for error. We can play with one of them but two is overkill. Not just that Ronaldo really is a box player which makes the LB the lone player in the left side who ended up , you guessed it crossing.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:22 pm

No need to panic after all we won the CL last year, haven't lost yet and Zidane is guardiola's heir

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:27 pm

I just want to address a few things.  

Points will be dropped, no team is perfect.  Look at Barcelona- they lost AT HOME against a newly promoted side. We drew against a very good defensive side who parked the bus.

I am not going to say we played well, but that game was by no means a guaranteed 3 points, regardless of manager.

Del Bosque is a great manager, maybe one of the best of all time, but you all have to realize he will never manage RM while Perez is in charge. And even if Perez wasn't in charge why would he come back to RM?  

And would that guarantee us success?  I don't think so.  He has not grown with the times in recent years.  Looking at the quality of teams he had in the last 2 major tournaments (Euro and WC) he was a disaster.  Knocked out in the round of 16 of the Euro and not even making it past the group stages in the WC.

Simone was also mentioned.  You have got to be mad if you think he would come to RM.  Same goes for Pep.

I think a lot of the people slinging critiques need to get some perspective.  We may not be playing the best football ever, but it is far from the worst and we just tied the all time win streak in La Liga, so overall the results have been positive.
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:35 pm

The problem is that the way we play football doesn't ensure consistency. We have lost the league 7 years out of the last 8 because of how we play football week to week. In the league that's what it comes down to, where in CL we can leverage all of our individuals talents in specific nights, high level of concentration across the board to win. So that's why we won the CL twice in the past 3 years, with our players in their primes making compromises to win a trophy. And if you look at how we won, with a late late equalizer and pks then you can conclude that there is a problem with how we play football. That's my conclusion at least, it doesn't diminish our greatness because we pull resources no other team can but that plus the league results highlights of problem. We saw it again tonight.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:48 pm

I really don't know what to make of this thread.

We need to keep in mind that that it was started by a youngster who obviously has not been watching futbol for long, judging by the op stating "in my history".

Seems to me the only ones really stating that Zidane is disastrous and should be replaced is Guest and Adit (and with Adit, I suspect a lot of it, is just to get under Sports' skin with the anti French thrusts in most of his posts).

Meanwhile the majority of us are saying we would like improved offensive tactics, but not at the expense of leaking goals.

Then there is the forever defense of the French approach by Sports and the poking fun of him by Nick and others, including myself.

Deez asked if anyone had constructive suggestions as to replacements and only Guest suggested a few notable coaches that he himself said would not be available.

- VDB (because he is retired and intends to stay retired, despises Flo and in his last few years showed he has lost it),
-Pep (he is on a new mission but even if he was available you would never get a Catalan coming to Madrid),
-Simone (from one Madrid team to another - you've got to be kidding)

Besides the only way these guys would make a difference is by changing a large number of current squad, which will not happen with Flo at the helm.

So bottom line, what we see is what we get, Zidane is doing well, with what he has and we can only hope he acts on some of the GL suggestions.


Last edited by futbol_bill on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Valkyrja on Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:04 pm

I'd like us to approach Thomas Tuchel, post-Z. Very good manager that got BVB back on track while playing good football.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:15 pm

Asides from being a legend which he leverages into good man management skills, Zidane proposes nothing and so we look like nothing. I don't think he is capable of it unless he somehow hires Gasset (Blanc assistant who got PSG TO play the way they did in the past 3 years).


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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by vanDEEZ on Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:29 pm

That could be it too.  I don't know much about the coaching staff around him, but especially since this is his first management position in a top league (and it's RM ffs), he may require some more experienced tactical coaches around him.

Not that this is a direct relation but I have been coaching for the past 6 years or so and even though it is youth football, the job is too big for 1 person. Having the right assistant coach has been everything to me and the team.

If Zidane doesn't have good support staff (which I don't know because I haven't looked into it) it could really hinder a coach's ability to communicate tactics and style.
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by sportsczy on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:23 pm

It's normal that teams feel invincible and can always turn on the sauce whenever they want to... that's why records usually stop against lesser teams.  Elite level football is being played by mostly egomaniacs and, surprise surprise, their egos catch up to them at times.

Zidane himself has said that the issue is that the team has won by simply turning it on in the second half.  That needs to get fixed.  The only way it really gets fixed is if you suffer a poor result.  Done.  I expect the team to start the next game with intensity.

Tactically, everything is great.  The issue we have is that the 100% intensity comes from our lesser known players and Castilla graduates...  So when we play with our veterans, they don't bring it as hard all the time.  It's normal.  The kids have more to prove and want to show their worth.

Add to this that Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema are all just coming off of injury and they all look really off form.  Ronaldo was just plain awful and Benz/Bale were very meh too.  You can't have that.  But what can you do... you have to play them so that they find form. It's just a shame that they've all been down together. At least Bale was fine until a couple of weeks back but then he got injured too.

Anyhow, lapses in concentration is pretty common for elite teams in the early season tbh.  As long as Zidane can keep them motivated enough that we are either on top of the table or right there come January, we'll be fine.  It's a problem when you fall behind 7-10 points come January though, which is the issue that Carlo and Rafa had.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by sportsczy on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:25 pm

@Bill... get off it ffs. You're just as bad with Spanish players so don't be such a hypocrite.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by jibers on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:31 pm

It's funny that very few people in this thread addressed @vanDeez question? Who can Madrid get at the moment that can convince the players and BBC to follow their ideas? Silence...you think CR and Benz will listen to Tuchels about pressing when Mourinho has already said Ronaldo never listened to his instructions? No manager at the moment that CAN come to MAdrid (simeone & Pep ruled out) can come to Madrid with the current players and impose their style. Saying Zidane should instil a positional game isn't magically going to happen either as he cannot coach that way. All talk and 0 feasible solutions.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:38 pm

@sportsczy wrote:@Bill... get off it ffs. You're just as bad with Spanish players so don't be such a hypocrite.


@Sports, hypocrite!!! I may be biased towards Spanish players (and coaches), but I have never been as defend at all costs as you do (and as you stated the other day never admit you are wrong even when you are), nor the complete sales job you do for every possible french player, nor do I make up the bulls*** stories that you continually do.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by sportsczy on Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:31 pm

You only get upset when those stories are slanted negatively towards Spanish players or interests. Just as biased about Spanish players as I am. You are being a complete hypocrite my man.

And as I've mentioned maybe a million times... posting and talking about rumors, conspiracies, etc. is one of the only reasons message boards such as this exist lol.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by sportsczy on Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:34 pm

@jibers.  There is no solution until there's turnover.   Real Madrid has always been a club run by the players.  So as long as the star players are in tune with the manager, it works.  If they're not, the manager gets killed.

Sooner or later the star players turn on a manager because a manager will inevitably make a decision in their disfavor... hence the manager turnover.  Zidane won't be immune either.  He has 2-3 more years max imo.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:19 pm

@jibers wrote:It's funny that very few people in this thread addressed @vanDeez question? Who can Madrid get at the moment that can convince the players and BBC to follow their ideas? Silence...you think CR and Benz will listen to Tuchels about pressing when Mourinho has already said Ronaldo never listened to his instructions? No manager at the moment that CAN come to MAdrid (simeone & Pep ruled out) can come to Madrid with the current players and impose their style. Saying Zidane should instil a positional game isn't magically going to happen either as he cannot coach that way. All talk and 0 feasible solutions.
in my opinion and he has flaws but Joachim low is the closest we could get to doing what most people want. Other than him Tuchel maybe

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by titosantill on Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:49 am

i said i didn't want to post on this anymore, please forgive me. but i noticed two things; people throwing simeone's name into the hat? i like simeone, i consider what he has done with atleti a great feat, great enough for me to put him ahead of any other manager today....only reason i don't do that is, i hate getting caught up in the "who's the best coach" talk for reasons i don't plan on addressing now

but back to simeone, people are calling for aesthetic football and simeone is the name we come up with? isn't that a bit of an oxymoron? he'll bring discipline for sure

but now back to the topic.....people are bringing up names of coaches, you guys realize we have a transfer ban right? the problem with this is, no top manager will come to a side like madrid and not request players who fit his agenda/ who he feels can help him win

madrid is the toughest job out there in club football as far as coaching is concerned. period. no top manager is going to come and say "i'll work with the side you have, it's fine". they'll want to bring in players to fill positions of concern to them....with a transfer ban, good luck to them in doing that. the only way any of them take a side as is, is if zidane is fired abruptly....and in summer they'll still want to try a hand in the market...which at the moment doesn't seem possible
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Adit on Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:36 pm

I admit it's the results that matter

Everything is OK camp gotta dig deeper for excuse this time.

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:37 pm

We are still CL champions, we play great winning football, calma

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:38 pm

Zi Matteo Proud

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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by Bankz on Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:04 am

Juande ramos and capellos madrid takes the cake tbh. Closely followed by zidanes madrid imo. Those madrid days with ramos Very Happy trust me, you guys don't want to even go back there. At least capello won the league and has a reputation
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:53 am

The season is over guys, let's go ahead and congratulate which ever team is in 1st place. Can't be us, we're the worst team ever.
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Re: In my history Zidane's Real Madrid is the worst footballing side I've seen

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