Re: European Refugee Crisis

by Unique Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:59 pm

People saying you can't blame Islamic Terrorism on Islam is like saying drugs play no part in people becoming a drug addict.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:05 pm

That's not plain racism but I was expecting those words from you as a "westerner".

As I said, I don't blame ALL of the refugees. It is with 100% certainty that not every single refugee is a criminal or a hate driven person. BUT it is the simple most straightforward fact that if you open the front door to your house, a thief will be the first one to step in.

Now, if you open your borders to millions of refugees, it is pretty obvious that there will be lots of hateful people amongst the masses. You need to take notes that the people you are letting in are of completely different religion and culture. And mind you, they are not willing to go along with the basic rudiments of the country. Muslims and Christians simply do not go together.

I cannot blame all of the refugees and I don't. But when you welcome them in masses, you don't see which one is what, can't judge a book by its cover. That's why we have to consider all of them as a threat. It's not racism, it's realism and presence of mind, when it comes to foreign policy.

There's that quote: "Not every Muslim is a terrorist but every terrorist is a Muslim."

If a dog bites me, I don't trust EVERY single dog, no matter the breed... That's why I take every possible caution when I get close to a dog and not run up to it being opened to an attack.

That is Western refugee policy (and mass immigration policy in general) and it's plain wrong. I don't know the solution to this problem but it seems that Mr Putin does although the West doesn't listen to him because they view him as a threat for some reason while quite clearly he's the most intelligent leader in the world in the present day,

I tried to explain that as I was talking to a 3rd grader so I hope you can understand this time around.

by rincon Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:21 pm

Fully agree with the beginning of your post, but of course later you had to come with the blind hate.

Myesyats wrote:There's that quote: "Not every Muslim is a terrorist but every terrorist is a Muslim."

Why, why must you post something so easily refutable. Something so objectively false as this! 1 minute of thought or research proves this false.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:26 pm

That quote was supposed to illustrate the recent state of affairs (that is so commonly know to every average human being), and not the entire existence of mankind.

Please respond to my post because I believe you don't actually think that I think every terrorist in existence of makind has been of one specific religion.

That's just you trying to get away from the main issue and premise of my post.

by rincon Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:42 pm

Alright, like I said I agree with the premise that large immigration will bring some problems. Absolutely. I disagree with the fact that christians and muslims cannot coexist, and I disagree that you have to consider all of them threats. I also very strongly disagree that they are not willing to go along with the basic rudiments of the country, because most clearly do.

Your starting point is that they don't go together with christians, that they must all be considered threats, and that they don't want to follow some basics about their new country. That seems awfully discriminatory and simply counter productive.

If you think like this, then the only answer that follows must be to simply ban all muslims from your country; because you will never have any immigrants integrated and at peace if they are this unwelcome and seen as fundamentally unable to fit. That will just marginalize a population and aggravate the differences.

You say that you don't blame all the refugees but you sure blame all the muslims. The huge majority adapts very well, gets along just fine with christians, and are not threats. This can be seen by the fact that europe for a very long time has had plenty of muslims that have been living just fine.

So what is it then? you don't blame the refugees but you won't take them. You don't see how muslims could get along with the rest, but you are not racist.

I asked you in a previous post that you never answered, what about the Muslims that are born and raised in europe? what do we do with them? Deport them? to where? let them be when european muslims have been implicated with the recent terrorist attacks? ban the religion?

by zigra Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:42 pm

Myesyats wrote:That quote was supposed to illustrate the recent state of affairs (that is so commonly know to every average human being)

And still completely wrong.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:55 pm

rincon wrote:Alright, like I said I agree with the premise that large immigration will bring some problems. Absolutely. I disagree with the fact that christians and muslims cannot coexist, and I disagree that you have to consider all of them threats. I also very strongly disagree that they are not willing to go along with the basic rudiments of the country, because most clearly do.

Your starting point is that they don't go together with christians, that they must all be considered threats, and that they don't want to follow some basics about their new country. That seems awfully discriminatory and simply counter productive.

If you think like this, then the only answer that follows must be to simply ban all muslims from your country; because you will never have any immigrants integrated and at peace if they are this unwelcome and seen as fundamentally unable to fit. That will just marginalize a population and aggravate the differences.

You say that you don't blame all the refugees but you sure blame all the muslims. The huge majority adapts very well, gets along just fine with christians, and are not threats. This can be seen by the fact that europe for a very long time has had plenty of muslims that have been living just fine.

So what is it then? you don't blame the refugees but you won't take them. You don't see how muslims could get along with the rest, but you are not racist.

I asked you in a previous post that you never answered, what about the Muslims that are born and raised in europe? what do we do with them? Deport them? to where? let them be when european muslims have been implicated with the recent terrorist attacks? ban the religion?

If you were born and raised in Europe you are familiar with European culture, history and basic principles. In that case there is no doubt you can coexist with anybody in the enviroment.

The problem I think is a major issue is that a lot of Muslims that come have never had any experience with what the principles are here and what is worse they are not willing to accept or learn those principles.

And BTW it's not that I attack Muslims here but we are dealing with Muslims currently. All of what I say could refer to any other culture/religion such as Buddhist or whatever.

Why do you act like we are not facing a problem right now? Everything that's been happening recently is happening since refugees started flooding the continent. But the way you word your sentences it would seem like refugees or Islam is not a problem here.

The problem is not one or two Muslims migrating into an European country. The problem is that it's happening in MILLIONS.

As I said, I do not have a solution as to how we should deal with that but definitely the way to go is NOT opening your borders wide. It needs to be assured that the people coming are willing to cooperate. How did a sentenced criminal that has pledged loyalty to ISIS get past the German border? It's easy to say no. You don't have to welcome everyone.

Now, you say we can't view all refugees as a threat. Speaking from experience, after all the reports we have received of refugees carrying out attacks, I think I can consider them as threat (especially that the attacks have been carried out by people of different age- teenagers even).

I have examples from my own enviroment. A refugee family was welcomed by a priest 30km from where I live. I don't think they did any harm to the priest physically but they took everything he had and ran away. They would seem like a normal family; a mother, a father and three children. Poland welcomed very few refugees but they still managed to do harm.

I know we are in 2016 and there should be no differences between people. I believe that. But many people don't and it is evident looking at the news and every other day finding out about an attack carried out by people that had been offered help.

I don't consider myself racist (I suppose you Rincon see me like that). Just because I don't leave my front door open when I leave the house, it doesn't mean I'm racist. I'm willing to help but the borders/border guards around countries are there for a reason.

So ,essentialy, I think we should be helping but everything should be done with sense. Let's go back to medieval times for instance because it seems a lot of people still have a typical dark ages mentality running around with axes and attacking other people. In medieval times a Christian/Muslim cooperation was not a thing. And that is still the case with many people.

Finally, how is anything of this racist? I am afraid of refugees. They don't speak my language, they believe in a vastly different religion, they have completely different habits. I don't let people I don't trust into my house, to put it in a simple way. Merkel let such people into her house. Now she wants to ban the burqas or whatever it is called and intends to back out from open door policy. Does that make her racist?

I feel this post is a little bit chaotic but i hope i get my message across.

by Tomwin Lannister Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:02 pm

I will agree opening your borders so willingly to large numbers is *bleep* retarded.

Security threats are outright ignored for some notion of goodwill, surely if you're in charge of a country you should be putting your own peoples interests first by maybe not letting unchecked migrants in from all sorts of backgrounds.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:10 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:I will agree opening your borders so willingly to large numbers is *bleep* retarded.

Security threats are outright ignored for some notion of goodwill, surely if you're in charge of a country you should be putting your own peoples interests first by maybe not letting unchecked migrants in from all sorts of backgrounds.

That is what I exactly mean. They are victims of war but that doesn't mean they are innocent.

To be perfectly honest, I am disgusted by Western foreign policy. They seem to think that it shows how highly developed they are when they welcome everyone in. That's not how it works, it's incredibly stupid, and vicious people are taking advantage of that.

by rincon Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:22 pm

Opening or closing borders that's ok, thats a fair debate. I'm all for taking caution. I haven't said otherwise. Helping them or not, and everything in between you can argue. Its the judgement of innocent the people and the discrimination thats my problem.

Myesyats wrote:Finally, how is anything of this racist?

Myesyats wrote: And mind you, they are not willing to go along with the basic rudiments of the country. Muslims and Christians simply do not go together.

What *bleep* year is this? Where do you live that you don't see people of different backgrounds go together?

Guess what, being born in a country that's mostly islamic or christian doesn't make you an extremist of either side. Being muslim doesn't mean you are beheading people and crashing planes into buildings. Almost every muslim in the world is against this. Just like almost every christian is.

If my sentences and words imply that there is no problem maybe thats just a matter of writing style. Of course there is a problem, a huge one, I've said it before. There is clearly a problem whenever anyone is dying like this. But panicking and jumping the gun isn't helping anyone in the long run.

"I know we are in 2016 and there should be no differences between people. I believe that"

"Muslims and Christians simply do not go together"

Take a good long look at yourself if you don't see your words as discriminatory.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:40 pm

What is it about those two sentences you brought up that contradicts itself?

I believe that there should be no differences but there clearly are. Don't you read the news or do they only feed you sugar in Italy? Because you clearly don't understand the issue fully and try to colour me as a some kind of neo nazi.

There are not many Muslims in Poland but from what I have experienced and acknowleged most Poles who had contact with Muslims are of the opinion that the majority of them does not have a hostile attitude towards followers of other religions and that most are intolerant of customs and values other than their own.

I guess we are all racists. Thanks for saying that - it's news for me.

by rincon Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Nah not all, just you. Get out and see the world for what it.

Btw believe I fully understand the issue, not a lot sugar being fed around here. I don't currently live in Italy, I live in Belgium I'm sure you are aware of the events in burssels. I even work in a facility that was targeted earlier this year because of the nuclear reactors we have. They had to close all roads leading to our place and now there are a handful of soldiers and an armored vehicle always on patrol on site.

I just chose to limit the blame for the guilty and not everyone that lives in 2000km radius.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:53 pm

rincon wrote:I just chose to limit the blame for the guilty and not everyone that lives in 2000km radius.

Why? Because it would make you racist to call out a Muslim?

An example from a different issue. How is that calling a black person the 'n' word is racist but when a black person calls a white person, for instance, 'a white boy' then it's not considered racist?

I don't think your mindset is in the right place.

by rincon Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:02 pm

These metaphors are so far off the mark I'm not gonna address them.

On topic. Nothing about being a muslim makes you unfit to get along with christians, or anyone else with an open mind. Being born in Tunisia, Algeria, Syria or Iran doesn't mean you are a threat. Sharing faith with a terrorist doesn't make you guilty of anything.

If you are intolerant and full of hate then you will have problems with people, regardless of where you were born or what fairy tale you believe.

That is all. There are good muslims, and bad ones, and neutral, and everything in between. Because they are people, and that is true for everyone else.

by Winter is Coming Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:13 pm

Unique wrote:People saying you can't blame Islamic Terrorism on Islam is like saying drugs play no part in people becoming a drug addict.

by Nishankly Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:19 pm

What happens when you are denied asylum? How is that guy able to roam freely and murder and drive a truck? Surely not being allowed asylum means deportation right? Can people tell me what happens according to law?

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:29 pm

Basically what you are saying is that I can't criticise or judge people?

Maybe you will tell me now that I can't say Merry Christmas because it offends non-Christians? I will say shit about anyone and anything I want.

This is the issue right here. In 2016 you can't say anything because you're immediately a racist, a homophobe, you name it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV315xqbRK8

by DuringTheWar Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:36 pm

footyfan01 wrote:It is ironical that there is so much hue & cry about the loss of a Western life, a while life but no1 gives a shit when millions of innocent Iraqis are killed. I have full sympathy for these deaths & it is incredibly sad.

But there were many ISIS attacks in Africa, many stable decent countries in Africa & no1 gives a sh**. Now you have 1 guy driving a truck or so & all hell breaks lose.

Definition of nation: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.

People are animals with a social and cultural nature. So they identify with others who have things in common with them. Most are also not materialist, they don't just see other humans as biological matter but care more about abstract things we call values and customs.

People with different cultures can be so radically different even the basic linguistic framework (language) for describing their perception of reality varies greatly. Learning Latin is an amazing experience to see how different the way people thought was compared with my language.

If people just realised the world is like this and accepted it they would understand why all attempts to unite humans worldwide into a common global identity are doomed for failure. (Although 'elites' in major cities around the world do in fact share many things in common, like sociopathy and vanity, it does not extend beyond them)

Even if there was an alien invasion, Hollywood has it wrong imo, humanity would not unite, and if so, only temporarily.

by Unique Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:37 pm

Myesyats wrote:Basically what you are saying is that I can't criticise or judge people?

Maybe you will tell me now that I can't say Merry Christmas because it offends non-Christians? I will say shit about anyone and anything I want.

This is the issue right here. In 2016 you can't say anything because you're immediately a racist, a homophobe, you name it.

Spoiler:

them people are worst than animals. i mean if you saw a homeless dog in the street and gave him food water and a home he would wag his tail to say thanks in his own way. That's how they say thanks.

by Myesyats Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:57 pm

Unique, you are racist!

But wait... Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. That doesn't make you racist then, I guess... You called them out for primitive behaviour, for the fact that their primal instincts resounded in them... That simply makes you a sane and open minded person, I guess...

It seems reasonable that they're throwing rocks and causing panic though. They're entitled to do so according to the West... I guess... they are forever innocent, they get some sort of free pass on raping children, yeah, yeah that makes perfect sense... A country that allows that doesn't have a future, does it? Well, maybe I'm wrong... Or maybe, just maybe, I'm right? Not sure now... The Western media seem to portray these people as poor souls... Hmm... But then they go, sexually abuse little kids and even somehow get away with it sometimes... That's a really strange world in my humble opinion... But I'm the one who's insane here? Probably, yes. I don't think.

by M99 Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:24 pm

Myesyats wrote:An example from a different issue. How is that calling a black person the 'n' word is racist but when a black person calls a white person, for instance, 'a white boy' then it's not considered racist?

I don't think your mindset is in the right place.

Yeah because the word white boy was historically used as a racial slur against people that were not considered human and enslaved.

by Katy Perry Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:25 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:Definition of nation: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.

People are animals with a social and cultural nature. So they identify with others who have things in common with them. Most are also not materialist, they don't just see other humans as biological matter but care more about abstract things we call values and customs.

People with different cultures can be so radically different even the basic linguistic framework (language) for describing their perception of reality varies greatly. Learning Latin is an amazing experience to see how different the way people thought was compared with my language.

If people just realised the world is like this and accepted it they would understand why all attempts to unite humans worldwide into a common global identity are doomed for failure. (Although 'elites' in major cities around the world do in fact share many things in common, like sociopathy and vanity, it does not extend beyond them)

Even if there was an alien invasion, Hollywood has it wrong imo, humanity would not unite, and if so, only temporarily.

Countries are glorified territorial pissings, but unlike territorial pissings, the lines delimiting them are imaginary. And their history is only wars and such. Prove me wrong

by DuringTheWar Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:52 am

Katy Perry wrote:Countries are glorified territorial pissings, but unlike territorial pissings, the lines delimiting them are imaginary. And their history is only wars and such. Prove me wrong

I'm sure you aren't retarded enough to believe geography is the only variable differentiating nations.

The history of nations is not only wars, that doesn't need to be proven, it's axiomatic.

by Myesyats Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:17 am

M99 wrote:Yeah because the word white boy was historically used as a racial slur against people that were not considered human and enslaved.

Take any word you want and that statement still stands.

BTW the term 'negro' is not a slur in Latin America at all. Also, black people use it all the time when talking to each other.

Western media created such a picture of that issue that it seems like black people can't be racist towards white people... They are.

by rwo power Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:48 am

Myesyats wrote:If you were born and raised in Europe you are familiar with European culture, history and basic principles. In that case there is no doubt you can coexist with anybody in the enviroment.

So what do you make of two brothers from Kosovo who were just arrested as prime suspects in planning a terror attack on the CentrO in Oberhausen?

by Guest Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:27 pm

Myesyats wrote:
M99 wrote:Yeah because the word white boy was historically used as a racial slur against people that were not considered human and enslaved.
Take any word you want and that statement still stands.

BTW the term 'negro' is not a slur in Latin America at all. Also, black people use it all the time when talking to each other.

Western media created such a picture of that issue that it seems like black people can't be racist towards white people... They are.

How many black people do you guys really have in Poland? Laughing

Thats why other minorities, at the end of the day, have to stand up for Muslims. The racism won't stop with them. We are talking about ISIS attacks in Europe, and the topic automatically goes towards the black folks from a person in a nation where Sub Saharan African percentages are negligible. How many racist black folks are in Poland? Laughing

It sadly seems that the true issue is that a lot of Europeans, after centuries of running around to other places, don't want ANY non whites in their country. Doesnt matter if they don't worship the moon god(Majority of Black french and English,Spanish people), or if they have education achievements that surpass the normal populations(East Asians).

I feel like an honest discussion can begin when certain people just say they really want an ALL WHITE Europe. The truth would set them free Smile

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