Qatar 2022 could cost £138bn

Lord Spencer wrote:So, this is my area of expertise. So here goes;

First, I am from the Middle East and have experience in political science and law to back me up here. I also come from a family of historians, economists, and sociologists. My mother is a psychiatrist. Hence, we all about cover up a large area in social sciences. I lived in Qatar, and frequently visited. Therefore, it is no big stretch to say that I know more than most of you. Unfortunately I cannot have the unbiased point of view of the outsider, but in truth, no point of view is free of bias.

Second, I am going to explain a number of concepts that are important in this discussion.

Sheikh: the meaning of the word differ from one interpretation into another. Here are the three major meaning.
1- Old man: a respectable term when addressing an older man, it also has a feminine version.
2- Islamic Cleric: the most widespread use of the word.
3- Signifying tribal purity: this is the tribal usage of word. Sheikhs are people who are Arab by race. To understand this, you need to understand the concept of racial Arabism.
a. There are three kinds of people.
b. Qahtani Arabs: these are the “original” Arabs and are called Sheikhs.
c. Mostarb Arab: meaning people whose ancestors are not “original” Arabs. i.e. Egyptians, Algerians, hell even the prophet himself is not considered as a pure Arab according to this concept.
d. Non-Arabs, and there are many sub categories in here that I will not mention.
In Qatar, the term is used to signify the pure lineage of the royal family. It is also a fact that all high officials in the countries are of “original” Arab lineage. Therefore, it is actually a correct statement when someone says that the Sheikhs are the ones pulling the strings. Because everyone who is in the decision making process is either a Sheikh, or is employed by one.

The Arabic and Islamic Identity: Muslims and Arabs have this general concept of a greater nation; one that encompasses the two above people. Therefore, it is the norm of Muslims and Arabs to be interested on the affairs of other nations in the Umma. Hence, people like Fadi and Zizzle are speaking not like Qatari’s but like first cousins. It is important to understand that being against Qatar does not signify envy, but rather care for the common welfare. Which brings us to the third concept:-

The Common Welfare: it is generally accepted between the nation that the Umma is to be cared for. Which is why the Arab/Muslim nations are hating on the gulf nations who are trying to distance themselves now that they are rich. It is from this principle that it becomes Qatar’s responsibility to help Somalia who are a part of the nation. This is not a binding contract, but a gentlemen’s agreement.

The Penis Competition in the Middle East: it is obvious that the ME countries are competing with each other in comparing their penises. Dubai built Burj Khalifa, Saudi Arabia wants to build the Mile Tower. And Qatar is hosting the WC. These three countries have been battling using this archaic model of overspending. Like all penis size competitions, things do not end well for all involved.

Upper-Tier Nations: nations that contribute to the general advancement of the human race. Doing so via, scientific advancement, technological production, and cultural progress, providing resources (raw, labor, machinery, educators, et). A country cannot consider itself an elite country unless it helps the advancement of the human race. This is a high-end concept that encloses history, philosophy and more.

That is it for concepts that are important in this debate.

Third, analyzing Qatar. Here is my bare bones analysis; Qatar is a little insignificant country that added/adds nothing to this world except that it found plenty of oil and gas in their territory.

That might sound bitter, but it is the reality. What does Qatar produce, in any level that is of any value to the world? Considering their economy, I would expect them to be tackling Korea in the production department. I would not criticize them harshly if they were using their money wisely. But all is happening is money wasted through corruption, or money wasted on penis projects like the WC. The project makes no sense whatsoever. It has no economical benefits; it has little cultural benefits since Qatar is bending their own culture to accommodate the WC. I would take the country more seriously if they have been actively improving their economic and industrial department. Qatar is like the stupid rich kid with the infinite pocket; yes the kid is popular and everything, but he is still stupid and is only popular because of his money.

There are hundred of better investments Qatar can make to better serve their country. The thing is, Qatar, like all the gulf countries, is not big on long-term thinking. To be blunt, the gulf no longer gives a rat’s ass about the “nation” or the common welfare. Nor do they particularly care about leaving a print on history. Of course, that all arises from the penis mentality of the rulers who were not chosen by the people.

This will be Qatar’s page in an encyclopedia 150 years later (unless they change their ways). It was a rich country that once hosted the WC. The End.

And as for Qatari people, there were a couple of uprising over the years that have been violently usurped. Of course, you would not know about this since the royal family owns the damn media.

And as a cherry on top, it would do Qatar who area responsible for 15% of Al-Qaeda’s funding according to wikileaks a world of good to stop doing so. And stop supporting dictators like the ones in Bahrain.

Fourth, 138 Billion Dollars. Do you understand the colossal stupidity needed to decide to spend such a sum on a penis spectacle? That is basically what it is. Qatar showing the world their huge but sterile dick.

You cannot support that. Here is a list of what a smarter country would do with that money:
1- Create a *bleep* industry.
2- Improve education.
3- Create industrial relationships with new markets.
4- Plan and begin a sustainable gas-free economical model.
5- Many other more intelligent things.

In summary, I might come off a little harsh on Qatar, but as an expert on ME affairs I can tell you that the path the Gulf countries are heading into historical obscurity. And as a middle easterner and as a guy who genuinely loves Qatari people (not their imbecile government) I really fear that happening. The WC was just another brain fart the imbeciles at government thought off to show their massive Gas filled vaults (you thought I was going to say penis, didn’t you).

michael1 wrote:and to think that the world cup couldve come to australia where everything is basically good to go with just touch ups needed not to mention my dream coming true, and that whole 138 billion dollars qatar is gonna spend couldve gone to like charity or something.

we so deserved the world up comin to aus.

stupid qatar and there oil bribe money

Crimson wrote:

michael1 wrote:and to think that the world cup couldve come to australia where everything is basically good to go with just touch ups needed not to mention my dream coming true, and that whole 138 billion dollars qatar is gonna spend couldve gone to like charity or something.

we so deserved the world up comin to aus.

stupid qatar and there oil bribe money

fixr

Zealous wrote:

highburied wrote:138 B is just wrong!

The richest individual in the world has around 60 B and if you ask him to spend all that money to host a WC, he would KILL YOU. Do you know why? Because its his own money and he earned it.

So, who are these people spending 138 B for football events?

Do they own the money? I dont think so.

A country =/= A person LOL

Zealous wrote:Wow some of you kids need a reality check. It's obvious most of this is stemming from jealousy/contempt. Some of you can't bring it about yourselves to admit that Qatar put in a fantastic f*cking world cup bid. If I were FIFA and I had to choose between Qatar and any of the other countries I'd pick Qatar because they are investing a lot into this. (I personally feel it's excessive but you don't see me ragging on them.)

And while Lord Spencer's post was well constructed I don't agree with some of it. (Him listing his credentials was a nice touch but I don't think it was needed). Personally it's obvious he has a different beef with Qatar than the world cup thing. I suggest you take that to the off topic thread.

LS rips on about how Qatar should be building an economy but it escapes him that making Qatar a tourist destination is pretty much the goal behind all this. (Notice how they also have a world wide airline as well as a multinational Banking branches). While you throw your stereotypes around Qatar and the UAE for example are literally trying to create an alternate economy out of nothing. Qatar is just trying to play the hand it's been dealt.

And it's not like they have a large population either. They barely scratch the one million mark and only a percentage of them are actually able bodied (Old people, kids etc.).

Again a lot of hate being thrown around for little to no reason other than sour grapes. (I personally feel some other posters are biased in a different way but I won't say because I could be wrong). Taking the morale high ground when in reality you don't give two shits about these things normally is very hypocritical IMO. It's obvious WHY you're hating on Qatar and it's not because they are spending money (An excessive amount I agree but they can do what they want with their money, who am I to judge.)

Anyway that's the last post from me in this thread. Don't bother replying.

michael1 wrote:

Zealous wrote:Wow some of you kids need a reality check. It's obvious most of this is stemming from jealousy/contempt. Some of you can't bring it about yourselves to admit that Qatar put in a fantastic f*cking world cup bid. If I were FIFA and I had to choose between Qatar and any of the other countries I'd pick Qatar because they are investing a lot into this. (I personally feel it's excessive but you don't see me ragging on them.)

And while Lord Spencer's post was well constructed I don't agree with some of it. (Him listing his credentials was a nice touch but I don't think it was needed). Personally it's obvious he has a different beef with Qatar than the world cup thing. I suggest you take that to the off topic thread.

LS rips on about how Qatar should be building an economy but it escapes him that making Qatar a tourist destination is pretty much the goal behind all this. (Notice how they also have a world wide airline as well as a multinational Banking branches). While you throw your stereotypes around Qatar and the UAE for example are literally trying to create an alternate economy out of nothing. Qatar is just trying to play the hand it's been dealt.

And it's not like they have a large population either. They barely scratch the one million mark and only a percentage of them are actually able bodied (Old people, kids etc.).

Again a lot of hate being thrown around for little to no reason other than sour grapes. (I personally feel some other posters are biased in a different way but I won't say because I could be wrong). Taking the morale high ground when in reality you don't give two shits about these things normally is very hypocritical IMO. It's obvious WHY you're hating on Qatar and it's not because they are spending money (An excessive amount I agree but they can do what they want with their money, who am I to judge.)

Anyway that's the last post from me in this thread. Don't bother replying.

i dont hate the fact there hosting it cause they got lots of money around or cause im jealous.

the reason im not happy about it is because they didnt deserve it, they have no stadiums what so ever,its not like the sport is growing in there country, they got it simply because they bribed the officials and thats fact.

australia deserved to be hosting the 2022 world cup and anyone who doesnt agree is nuts.

we have the stadiums, the transport and appealing country to come for the traveling fans around the world to come to and football is gorwing in our country and hosting the world cup wouldve done the sport a world of good here.

whats are the traveling fans in qatar gonna do in between matches? nothing theyll be stuck in the hotel rooms due to the ridiculous heat, not to mention rumours of them moving the world cup so it coincised with qatars winter.

if they deserved it fair enough but they dont not even one bit, they got cause they got money nothing more nothing less.

i mean what are they gonna do with all those state of the art stadiums when the world cup is over ?

atleast australia wouldve put all the upgraded stadiums to use with all the sports australia plays.

people can say im jealous or watever australia deserved it !!!

7amood11 wrote:

Really, Qatar's bid was the best and was very well constructed, and I'm saying this without bias. If I had to rank the bids I'd put it like this: Qatar, USA, Australia.

Stuck in their hotel rooms? I don't think you know much about Qatar man. A World Cup in the Middle-East would do football in the region a world of good.

After the World Cup, some of Qatar's stadiums will be transported to developing nations (how awesome is that), others will be converted to malls.

che wrote:
cool story bro

without bias i'd rank them australia, usa, qatar because australia already has the stadiums, infrastructure and most of all massive potential for growth of football and doesn't exploit borderline slave labour

che wrote:
yes, if by region you mean the gulf countries which are already super rich, i personally couldn't give a shit if they improve their tourism to get even more money... if by "the region" you mean all arab countries like iraq or saudi arabia then that's a big fat no

che wrote:how nice of them to give the developing countries football stadiums instead of, say, running water or hospitals

Seppuku wrote:Qatar miss-using their own peoples money???

Congratulations on joining the developed world.

Next stop. Start an international economic crises.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:I have one question, most of the people who participated in the debate here seem to be from the region. When I was previously there I got a feeling that middle easterners from non-gcc countries were very opposed to arabs from the gcc countries. I remember many would talk badly about them even when they were working for them or in their countries (they dont deserve their money, they dont deserve to spend their money, etc). In this debate is the pro-qatar camp from the gcc and the anti-qatar camp from the other middle eastern countries?

Lord Spencer wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:I have one question, most of the people who participated in the debate here seem to be from the region. When I was previously there I got a feeling that middle easterners from non-gcc countries were very opposed to arabs from the gcc countries. I remember many would talk badly about them even when they were working for them or in their countries (they dont deserve their money, they dont deserve to spend their money, etc). In this debate is the pro-qatar camp from the gcc and the anti-qatar camp from the other middle eastern countries?

I don't know about the other posters, but I am from the GCC. But I can't say I belong there. Although I have the Saudi Nationality and my mother is Saudi, my father is from Iraq. I also have many connection throughout the ME and Gulf Countries, many are divided but most don't give a crap about the WC being in Qatar. And I explained earlier that it is not an Anti-Qatar campaign, we would love for Qatar every good. Wasting 138 billions on a WC is not good. I wouldn't give a frak if Qatar uses that money to improve their education, health system, industry, cultural influence, infrastructure, etc. All things that would give you their spending's worth. The WC will not give you back what you spent. These penis projects are never financially sound.

Burj Khalifa in Dubai is a sound example, who owns it. NOT Dubai. Abu Dhabi and some Iranian merchant bought the thing off Dubai who were nearly bankrupt and could not complete it.

I hope I am proved wrong on this whole thing, and that Qatar proves 138 billion on a WC to be a sound investment. But I don't see that happening.


On this Non-GCC Arabs hating GCC Arabs. It exists both ways. (I am not making any stereotypes here, just a quick history lesson) It relates to the Common Welfare concept and the "Greater Nation" concept as well. It is also a historical conflict between Tribal Bedouins (the GCC, Jordan) and the City people (other Arab countries). It is historically bizarre that all the wealth is within the control of the Tribals. Anyway, it is common ambition that each individual country works for the Common Welfare of the Arab League. Since the GCC failed at doing so now that they are rich, they are hated. Unfortunately hating the government spreads to hating the people. Other reasons include the support Mubarak/Asad had from the GCC. The Wahabi Islam spreading from Saudi Arabia. The fact that nearly 70% of Al-Qaeda's funding comes from the GCC. But again, this is not hat in its most oure form. But more like hating your annoying little brother.

Thank you

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:I have one question, most of the people who participated in the debate here seem to be from the region. When I was previously there I got a feeling that middle easterners from non-gcc countries were very opposed to arabs from the gcc countries. I remember many would talk badly about them even when they were working for them or in their countries (they dont deserve their money, they dont deserve to spend their money, etc). In this debate is the pro-qatar camp from the gcc and the anti-qatar camp from the other middle eastern countries?

I don't know about the other posters, but I am from the GCC. But I can't say I belong there. Although I have the Saudi Nationality and my mother is Saudi, my father is from Iraq. I also have many connection throughout the ME and Gulf Countries, many are divided but most don't give a crap about the WC being in Qatar. And I explained earlier that it is not an Anti-Qatar campaign, we would love for Qatar every good. Wasting 138 billions on a WC is not good. I wouldn't give a frak if Qatar uses that money to improve their education, health system, industry, cultural influence, infrastructure, etc. All things that would give you their spending's worth. The WC will not give you back what you spent. These penis projects are never financially sound.

Burj Khalifa in Dubai is a sound example, who owns it. NOT Dubai. Abu Dhabi and some Iranian merchant bought the thing off Dubai who were nearly bankrupt and could not complete it.

I hope I am proved wrong on this whole thing, and that Qatar proves 138 billion on a WC to be a sound investment. But I don't see that happening.


On this Non-GCC Arabs hating GCC Arabs. It exists both ways. (I am not making any stereotypes here, just a quick history lesson) It relates to the Common Welfare concept and the "Greater Nation" concept as well. It is also a historical conflict between Tribal Bedouins (the GCC, Jordan) and the City people (other Arab countries). It is historically bizarre that all the wealth is within the control of the Tribals. Anyway, it is common ambition that each individual country works for the Common Welfare of the Arab League. Since the GCC failed at doing so now that they are rich, they are hated. Unfortunately hating the government spreads to hating the people. Other reasons include the support Mubarak/Asad had from the GCC. The Wahabi Islam spreading from Saudi Arabia. The fact that nearly 70% of Al-Qaeda's funding comes from the GCC. But again, this is not hat in its most oure form. But more like hating your annoying little brother.

Thank you

Well actually the bulk of the money will be used to create a tourism infrastructure in the country for both foreigners and the people, this just gives the country the opportunity to the country to showcase its achievements at the end of the line. The country along with the UAE aims to create an area similar to hongkong and shanghai, gateways to larger markets with world class infrastructure and a port/air system that would capitalize on the location of GCC countries.

Ive studied baathism and nasserism while I was in college and their moves to say the arab oil is for all the arabs is a farce, its a chauvinistic idea that rests upon xenophobia and class warfare. The fact is to be truthful the only countries which are ethnically arab are the gcc, jordan, parts of iraq, parts of syria, the WB and libya. All the other arabic speaking people are originally from other ethnicities such as egyptians, kurds, syriacs, berbers and so on. These other ethnicities seem to be fixated on hating hating the arabs, persians (in the case of iraq) and israel (in the case of syria and egypt). These concepts of borderless nations and sharing of wealth and resources sicken me to be honest and I am someone from a country which these movements had a great impact on.

The only people I really have respect for in the region from my work as a consultant there are the GCC countries and the turks to be honest.