StrugRock Special: Real Madrid vs Lyon - Match Discussion

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:50 pm

@sportsczy wrote:The controversy has already started to rear its head in France and the press is just waiting for Benz to be benched against Lyon... it's not really Benz that's the issue; it's the fact that he has a lot of pressure in France. And just to reiterate, there's no way in the world you bench a guy that's scored 3 hat tricks in the last 4 games... you have to ride that. So it's a tough situation.

Also, Gameiro has 8 goals already in Ligue 1 too and Benz cannot rest on his laurels. If he falls out of form, his starting spot will be in danger.... and it should. For strikers, it is really important to be sharp.

Lots riding for him this year personally and with the Euro looming. He can't be passive.

The press is freaking stupid, and frankly, they know they are going to sell bunch of papers off that kind of story.

I think Mou reminded again to his players not to pay attention to the press, because when they arent playing they know why.

He actually precised that Benzema was only on the bench just in case, and he was not gong to risk him because he isnt 100%.

Any journalist with brain would know that there is near 0% for Benzema to start tomorrow, but they do not care, rationality do not sell, drama does.

What Blanc need is to start playing benzema either on the left in a 433 or behind the CF, because frankly, he is looked too much as a savior for them and if he is touched or injured, they sound like it's the end of the world. freaking pathetic.

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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:51 pm

@sportsczy wrote:The controversy has already started to rear its head in France and the press is just waiting for Benz to be benched against Lyon... it's not really Benz that's the issue; it's the fact that he has a lot of pressure in France. And just to reiterate, there's no way in the world you bench a guy that's scored 3 hat tricks in the last 4 games... you have to ride that. So it's a tough situation.

Also, Gameiro has 8 goals already in Ligue 1 too and Benz cannot rest on his laurels. If he falls out of form, his starting spot will be in danger.... and it should. For strikers, it is really important to be sharp.

Lots riding for him this year personally and with the Euro looming. He can't be passive.

I feel sorry for Benz TBH. Not because I think he's going to be benched permanently , he has far too much quality for that but we've played Lyon 4 possibly 6 times since he's come and not a single time has he gotten the chance to start.

On topic

Benz>Ozil on the right
Ozil>Kaka at Cam

Kaka is only starting because we have no other strikers.'

I don't mind Kaka starting in front of Ozil though , cuz he looks pretty tired..............


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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:54 pm

@Giovanni10 wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:The controversy has already started to rear its head in France and the press is just waiting for Benz to be benched against Lyon... it's not really Benz that's the issue; it's the fact that he has a lot of pressure in France. And just to reiterate, there's no way in the world you bench a guy that's scored 3 hat tricks in the last 4 games... you have to ride that. So it's a tough situation.

Also, Gameiro has 8 goals already in Ligue 1 too and Benz cannot rest on his laurels. If he falls out of form, his starting spot will be in danger.... and it should. For strikers, it is really important to be sharp.

Lots riding for him this year personally and with the Euro looming. He can't be passive.

Quite right, but this is a similar situation for Higuain as well. Its not as if Argentina are lacking in the striking talent department either. Ok Milito and Tevez are out of it for the moment but then there is still Messi, Lavezzi, Aguero, Higuain. How many slots will be made available for forwards under the new manager? I feel that even though Higuain may end up on the bench for the majority of this year again- that should not affect his Argentina chances- he is still a world class player.

I think Pipita is in a different situation. He has less pressure than benzema does with France, because of Messi for example. Benzema is looked at, as the single most talented player in France, and he has to shoulder all the pressure from that.

He is the only player of his kind currently vying for a place in the NT, he has virtually no competition in my opinion. people just want Pipa to do well and bring the goalscoring to argentina with him.

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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:54 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's after last game that i understood how delusional people are starting to get with kaka.

He played a fairly poor game against betis, but on a single action he scored, and his performance turned into a class one.

You can make the argument, and i will respect it, that scoring is the most important. However, it mainly applies for a CF. Higuain can have a piss poor game but if he bangs 3 on 3 chances, no one will care. For a midfielder, it simply doesnt cut, it's not enough, and the impact on the game has to be greater.

I am happy he is looking better, and i can see how his big game mentality will play when we get far in CL, but there is a lot of hype going on at the moment. Fairly agrees with Czy about Benzema, and Higuain.

EXACTLY!

Glad some other people are seeing it

Ozil needs to move back to being more central and either Benzema or Di Maria needs to play for Kaka. Khedira in for Lass and bam awesomeness

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Post by Giovanni10 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:The controversy has already started to rear its head in France and the press is just waiting for Benz to be benched against Lyon... it's not really Benz that's the issue; it's the fact that he has a lot of pressure in France. And just to reiterate, there's no way in the world you bench a guy that's scored 3 hat tricks in the last 4 games... you have to ride that. So it's a tough situation.

Also, Gameiro has 8 goals already in Ligue 1 too and Benz cannot rest on his laurels. If he falls out of form, his starting spot will be in danger.... and it should. For strikers, it is really important to be sharp.

Lots riding for him this year personally and with the Euro looming. He can't be passive.

The press is freaking stupid, and frankly, they know they are going to sell bunch of papers off that kind of story.

I think Mou reminded again to his players not to pay attention to the press, because when they arent playing they know why.

He actually precised that Benzema was only on the bench just in case, and he was not gong to risk him because he isnt 100%.

Any journalist with brain would know that there is near 0% for Benzema to start tomorrow, but they do not care, rationality do not sell, drama does.

What Blanc need is to start playing benzema either on the left in a 433 or behind the CF, because frankly, he is looked too much as a savior for them and if he is touched or injured, they sound like it's the end of the world. freaking pathetic.

Left of the front 3 in a 4-3-3. Yes, if replacing Malouda. No, if replacing Ribery
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Post by Giovanni10 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:02 pm

@Crimson wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's after last game that i understood how delusional people are starting to get with kaka.

He played a fairly poor game against betis, but on a single action he scored, and his performance turned into a class one.

You can make the argument, and i will respect it, that scoring is the most important. However, it mainly applies for a CF. Higuain can have a piss poor game but if he bangs 3 on 3 chances, no one will care. For a midfielder, it simply doesnt cut, it's not enough, and the impact on the game has to be greater.

I am happy he is looking better, and i can see how his big game mentality will play when we get far in CL, but there is a lot of hype going on at the moment. Fairly agrees with Czy about Benzema, and Higuain.

EXACTLY!

Glad some other people are seeing it

Ozil needs to move back to being more central and either Benzema or Di Maria needs to play for Kaka. Khedira in for Lass and bam awesomeness

I think you are all being over critical of the "affect" Kaka is having on Ozil's game. I thought the team struggled in the first half against Betis, but Betis have been a form side so no surprises there. In the second half, the attacking play was good- really don't see any problems in the mixer including Ronaldo, Hig, Ozil and Kaka.

Stating the obvious here, but I do agree with the dropping of Lass. He is just trying to hard to win Mou over and its actually counter-productive compared to his actual game which is quite solid. Right now he has the whole headless chicken "Look at me daddy, I can do everything!" which he ff-ing can't so he should just defend and simple pass! aargh :facepalm:
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Post by Margera on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:02 pm

Saetablanca wrote:

If you switch Cristiano and Benz, youve got the perfect team right there. But we cant really play Pipita and Benz together without strikers on the bench, unless we try and use Callejon in a 9 position. I think that might be a once in a while option to have on the bench.

Yes I already adressed that with my post. Wink

Also Kaka has been playing alright(not great) but as said before he avoids contact like the plague and will not be able to handle Lyon and their physicality.

After seeing Özil playing for German team in his natural position like a *bleep* boss, we should be looking to ride on that and use him as the AM, just like we are doing with Higuain.
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Post by Ganso on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:02 pm

@Adit wrote:not only that,kaka is hindering ozils great perfomance by displacing him to wing where ozil is 1/4 as effective as a AM.


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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:04 pm

He can play on the right for France ans be just as good. They have only one sure goal scoring source in their team when Benzema usually plays, and it's him.

They have no right winger or inside right that i rate, i think Remy can do it, but he aint that good.

If they play Ribery-Gameiro/Gomis-Benzema, they will be much better, and the benzema dependence will go down greatly.

i dont really care if Nasri finds a spot in the team, but that's how i think their attack should look. i close that parenthesis here, since it's off topic

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:06 pm

Ozil looked mighty fine with Germany during the week playing AM, coming deep to playmake and all, but looked a bit out of his depth when he was asked to play with kaka, and i noticed some gap on the right, none was creating width, and Arbeloa had to come up.

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Post by Margera on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:08 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Ozil looked mighty fine with Germany during the week playing AM, coming deep to playmake and all, but looked a bit out of his depth when he was asked to play with kaka, and i noticed some gap on the right, none was creating width, and Arbeloa had to come up.

This 1000 times, Özil should be played as the AM.

Also I agree with the people saying we should start both Benz and Higuain at the same time, I would prefer Benzema on the wing since right now Higuain is pretty much unstoppable as CF.
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Post by Giovanni10 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:15 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Ozil looked mighty fine with Germany during the week playing AM, coming deep to playmake and all, but looked a bit out of his depth when he was asked to play with kaka, and i noticed some gap on the right, none was creating width, and Arbeloa had to come up.

It's like the right side of the pitch has a contagious disease or something. They all want to operate middle-left. If Ronaldo could just bugger off to the right wing and stay there it would fix the problem. Ronaldo has great athletic, dribbling and shooting ability, BUT his passing technique is just too poor to have a free role to go wherever he wants.

Maybe its the fullbacks hmm ...maybe Marcelo is so cool that everyone just wants to hang out with him on the left side of the pitch.. whereas on the right you would be chilling predominantly with Lass and Robocop- decidedly less cool. :coffee:
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Post by Zealous on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:19 pm

Kaka has quality at his feet but he'll only really contribute with an assist or goal, not really so much in over all play. In that sense he is closer to an SS than a midfielder.

I'd start Benzema, Ozil, Higuain and Ronaldo, with Kaka and Di Maria as subs.

Kaka and Di Maria can give you a lot in the way of impact off the bench, (dribble, assist, goal) at least that's my view on this issue.

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Post by StrugaRock on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:21 pm

I'd like a formation same as the weekend match but only Khedira in for Lass.

Also Kaka should start for now, he is high on confidence so we don't want to ruin that now do we? Also Di Maria get's on my nerves sometimes.

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Post by LeVersacci on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:26 pm

-----Higuain
CR7-Özil-Benzema
Alonso-Khedira


If only :/
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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:36 pm

Just like Mou, Blanc wants 2 high level CFs on his squad in case one gets injured. Right now, it's Gameiro and Benz. He won't move either to a wing and play them together.

Alos, Blanc likes speed on the outside and prefers to have 2 of Ribery, Remy and Menez out there.

The biggest issue for Benz is that Blanc made a statement last year and reiterated it just last week... only those that are starters at their club will be truly considered for starting jobs at France NT, especially in the Euro. So Malouda is out as a starter for sure. Gameiro, if he scores over 30 goals, will push the CF spot (i think he's get over 30 as he's at 10 overall right now).

Benz just can't get comfortable and he knows that. Although Domenech was a lunatic, he told Benz that he was left off the team because he was a bench player at Madrid. I don't think Benz will take the same risk again. Probably has 1 WC and 2 Euros in him at his prime years... can't afford to take chances on any.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:51 pm

Lol, even if Benzema is on the bench with Real, he will start with france, simply because, his talent level is unmatched. it;s a bit of an exaggeration, but in the short term it's not really relevant for benzema, he has a cushion. It's a problem for guys like Menez, Matuidi, lass etc...

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Post by Doc on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:03 pm

Once Higuain can bury some ghosts, I'll be fine.

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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:09 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Lol, even if Benzema is on the bench with Real, he will start with france, simply because, his talent level is unmatched. it;s a bit of an exaggeration, but in the short term it's not really relevant for benzema, he has a cushion. It's a problem for guys like Menez, Matuidi, lass etc...

Not true Nick. Blanc even said last year in late November that, although Benz is playing well at the moment for NT, he needs to play a lot more at club to solidify his position. He kept harping on it over and over through the end of the year. Benz was lucky last year that there really wasn't anyone behind him at the CF spot in France. Gameiro is going to be there this year for sure. Remy may also make a push.

With Ribery back at full form, Nasri starting to develop and Menez/Remy both playing well, Blanc will not take a risk on a rusty player in competition unless there's a huge gap like last year. There's no such thing as a safe position on NT teams with that much talent.

Imagine if Martin puts in 20 assists this year and forces himself into the AM role and Gameiro gets over 30 goals... that would push Nasri on the wing opposite Ribery, as long as Nasri is starting at club (no reason he won't since he's playing very well with City). Do you really think that Blanc is going to start Benzema if he rarely plays at Madrid? Impossible. And this is not an unlikely scenario.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:18 pm

How did this go from Real Madrid vs Lyon to Benzema's rather interesting situation for RM and NT?

Anywho Sport will gourcuff play against us come the match? I hope so lol.

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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:22 pm

They have no choice but to play Gourcuff if they want to play a AM/CM. Their starting CM/AM, Grenier, is injured. They could go with the ultra-defensive Kallstrom/Gonalons/Fofana trio.

Because Gourcuff just played his 1st game of the season, i doubt he starts though.

Madrid should expect highly defensive tactics by Lyon. There will be very little room.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:27 pm

U think Lyon can hurt us atm? I think not or rather especially not with Gourcuff playing. Gomis a concern though.

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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:31 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:U think Lyon can hurt us atm? I think not or rather especially not with Gourcuff playing. Gomis a concern though.

Bastos is the best player on the team right now offensively. Great form. Gomis is playing great too. Gonalons/Kone > Toulalan/Cris. Only issue is the Lisandro injury. Briand is a poor replacement and Lacazette is too young.

But defensively, they are more solid and they have Lloris. They will play the counter game.

I don't think they're dangerous in terms of being able to beat us. But i think they'll be difficult to score on... always makes for tighter games and, thus, the chance of being surprised.

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Post by alexander mahone on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:20 pm

@Giovanni10 wrote:
It's like the right side of the pitch has a contagious disease or something. They all want to operate middle-left.

Unlike againts Espanyol, I thought they operated enough from the right againts Betis, especially in the second half. Arbeola came up made a lot of things worked.
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Post by alexander mahone on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:25 pm

@Giovanni10 wrote: As far as current form goes, IMO Kaka's overall play is actually better than Ozil at the moment.

I disagree, their overall play since playing together imo:
Rayo: Ozil > Kaka
Ajax: Ozil > Kaka
Espanyol: Kaka > Ozil
Betis: Ozil > Kaka
Even though played out of his preferred position, except againts Espanyol Ozil was always being involved more & also creating more than Kaka.
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Post by alexander mahone on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:32 pm

Since Lass out, Khedira is almost surely will start, unless Jose want to start Coentrao instead there.
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