Dortmund are everything what football used to be

Mr Nick09 wrote:why put so much emphasis on how much their team cost tho? does it matter?

Yes! It shows efficiency in their operations.

kiranr wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:why put so much emphasis on how much their team cost tho? does it matter?

Yes! It shows efficiency in their operations.

efficiency in what? is that a new verb?

Mr Nick09 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:why put so much emphasis on how much their team cost tho? does it matter?

Yes! It shows efficiency in their operations.

efficiency in what? is that a new verb?

You don't think efficiency is important? It is probably not as important as the final result, but it gives clubs higher earning power and better scope of overall improvement without putting strain on their resources.

I hope they can keep their management who is doing a brilliant job currently.

Mr Nick09 wrote:why put so much emphasis on how much their team cost tho? does it matter?

Yes, because some teams have spent hundreds of millions on their players, yet Dortmund are now doing far better than all of them with a 40m team. That's an incredible achievement.

BarcaLearning wrote:Not sure where I should ask, so Ill put it here.

Im wondering does Dortmund have a youth system like Barca where they constantly develop good young players on a high level? Or do they mostly buy as well? Thanks.

Half and half. They got a great youth academy (Götze, Reus) and also got great scouts, they tend to buy young talent on the cheap early in their careers, like Bender, Hummels, Gündogan, Kagawa, Lewandowski and Kuba.

Their academy is nowhere near as impressive as the one in Munich or Stuttgart though, Dortmund buy more players in their late teens than they develop from really early on.

For me they are the true fantasy package this season. I really respect a club who has built their team like they have and don't spend enormous amounts of money for a single player. Dortmund are an example to follow for all. A club which has built it's side through good and clever management.

Massive respect for Dortmund, they are a joy to watch and credit should go to Jurgen Klopp.

Mr Nick09 wrote:why put so much emphasis on how much their team cost tho? does it matter?

Cause its important. If Villa and liverpool were efficient they would be in the champions league contesting for trophies. Yet one is fighting not to get relegated.

Zlatan wrote:For me they are the true fantasy package this season. I really respect a club who has built their team like they have and don't spend enormous amounts of money for a single player. Dortmund are an example to follow for all. A club which has built it's side through good and clever management.

They may well be but considering they are likely going to lose their best players this summer it shows it is not all positive

@ viva stpauli: is the Munich or Stuttgart academy really that good! Can you name some players from these academies in recent years!

7amood11 wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:why put so much emphasis on how much their team cost tho? does it matter?

Yes, because some teams have spent hundreds of millions on their players, yet Dortmund are now doing far better than all of them with a 40m team. That's an incredible achievement.

That and also it shows everyone that you don't need to spend 100s of millions to be successful.

They are an example to every club that wants to go from mid table to a trophy winning team that you can do so without spending obscene amounts.

Apart from the obvious brilliant achievement its the example it sets.

Ajax 2.0 and we all know how it went for Ajax. At least, Kluvert and co only left when they already won CL, not before/after semi final. Not that often you could produce a golden generation be it from youth academy or scouting. With their wage bill, I imagine more will soon follow Gotze and Lewa; that's the 1st thing they need to work on imo.

Udinese also has amazing scout network and they could barely held to it, hovering around upper table.

Twoism wrote:Ajax 2.0 and we all know how it went for Ajax. At least, Kluvert and co only left when they already won CL, not before/after semi final. Not that often you could produce a golden generation be it from youth academy or scouting. With their wage bill, I imagine more will soon follow Gotze and Lewa; that's the 1st thing they need to work on imo.

Udinese also has amazing scout network and they could barely held to it, hovering around upper table.

Ajax never got this amount of money to replace those players, also Dortmund's income is far greater.

I fail to see how the situations are even close to being a comparison.

The only comparison is players are leaving ( only one so far btw) but they are in a much stronger position to build and strengthen than Ajax ever was.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Twoism wrote:Ajax 2.0 and we all know how it went for Ajax. At least, Kluvert and co only left when they already won CL, not before/after semi final. Not that often you could produce a golden generation be it from youth academy or scouting. With their wage bill, I imagine more will soon follow Gotze and Lewa; that's the 1st thing they need to work on imo.

Udinese also has amazing scout network and they could barely held to it, hovering around upper table.

Ajax never got this amount of money to replace those players, also Dortmund's income is far greater.

I fail to see how the situations are even close to being a comparison.

The only comparison is players are leaving ( only one so far btw) but they are in a much stronger position to build and strengthen than Ajax ever was.

Yes, Ajax didn't have as much money as Dortmund but they do share the same model, don't they? Which is using youth promotion and buying cheap. Unless Dortmund upper management changes their view and start spending, I see it as similar situation. What Dortmund could do better than Ajax is to hold on their star players and sustain their successful run longer.
We all saw how Arsenal quality dropped bit by bit, year after year due to improper replacement. Like I said, it's not that often one could find 16 years old Fabregas or a 2nd coming Viera/ RVP to take charge.

They need to act like a big club soon to be a big club, 1st to improve their players contract to its proper numbers, being hard ass on transfer market.

Tbf when Dormund sold Sahin, Kagawa etc etc they would usually spend that money on the replacement.

A huge chunk of Sahin's sale went on Gundogan and practically all of Kagawa went on Reus.

Its not like they are afraid of spending money they get on a replacement.

I agree with that they have similar models.... there are some key differences though.

Dortmund are not as reliant on their youth system as Ajax were and they are not as strict with their buying policy either.

I don't expect Dortmund to be in the final 4 every season, but i don't expect Dortmund to disappear off the radar like Ajax did either.

The key is that Dortmund keep getting these prices for their top players, if you keep buying someone for next to nothing and selling him for 30m+ ( lets be honest Gotze isn't their only player who could command such a fee) you are likely to be consistently successful even if you lose a top player often.

Arsenal is different, because they sold their players and paid off their debts with it instead of using it to strengthen and when they did they bought vastly inferior players.

In addition to what GLS said there are some other variables to think:

1. German League is much stronger than Dutch League (in their hey-days) so there is an added incentive for a young player to play and stay with Dortmund. A player can enjoy (in addition to the chance to develop further) decent sponsorship money with Dortmund.

2. The commercial revenue of Dortmund is healthy (while Ajax depended on player & ticket sales) and they can offer better pay if they want to keep a player.

3. Ajax fell because of board-room fighting and not just for selling their key players.

4. There is a much bigger global pool of players than what Ajax had.

Dortmund will fall only if their management hires H&J.

How amazing it is for Dortmund to reach the final ? It's honestly like a fairytale story despite Dortmund being this good. I mean, they weren't even in the CL or much talked about few years ago. As an Arsenal fan, I'd say we have seen the final once in 13 years. Madrid haven't been in the final in 11 years either.

It is a fantastic achievement for Dortmund. If they win it, then that's a story to tell for years to come.

Agree 100% and to do it in the way they have to, using either academy lads or very cheap players and moulding them into superstars is what everyone inspires to do.

They are living the dream.

Dortmund was close to Bankrott in 2005 and close to relegation in 07/08, it's amazing what Watzke, Zorc and Klopp have done with the club since then. Even if Dortmund lose the final it's still an amazing season.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Agree 100% and to do it in the way they have to, using either academy lads or very cheap players and moulding them into superstars is what everyone inspires to do.

They are living the dream.

Can someone tell me whats the youth system setup like at a German club like Dortmund? Is it comparable to the Spainish clubs?