2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sat May 04, 2013 11:39 pm

I dont know where these assumptions come from...he has said nothing but humble words about his ability.....because he got a mohawk and does step overs doesnt mean he thinks he has done it all.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by danyjr on Sat May 04, 2013 11:39 pm

@The Franchise wrote:I think setting sights on Bale is pretty risky. He plays very differently...long shots, long runs, and solo-ism.

On top of that, aside from when moving in a forward direction I dont think hes a top player. Going backwards (defending) and stationary (quick thinking, small spaces getting the ball under control and making the pass in 1 or 2 touches) I dont think he is real good at, too many miscontrol leading to turnovers for him or the reciever for my liking.

There, exactly why I think Neymar would flop too.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sat May 04, 2013 11:49 pm

Nothing wrong with solo-ism...we need some of it really...but its a problem when you add it to not having a close space game, actual dribbling (rather than running in straight lines) and tons of long shots all only available in large spaces.

Cant you see what happens to our forwards? Why we are so dependant on Messi?

Those spaces in between fullback and centerback are being closed, they realise that danger of the off ball runners. They are happier to let the wingers recieve the ball to feet and try in the 1 v 1...Alexis, Pedro and even Villa are not doing it in the 1 v 1.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by CBarca on Sun May 05, 2013 1:02 am

I think Bale is an amazing player and one of my favorites, he has a bright future ahead of him and if we got him I would say he's talented enough he could succeed. However, he could also flop.

But we shouldn't be interested. He's far too different-- and while I think we need some of that, Bale's not the one. He's far too expensive as well, and he's really just a huge risk.

If we're going to buy a top, top player, I'm ok with Neymar (although he has a lot to prove). But in my opinion, the perfect man...the best forward for us, is Suarez. I would love for Barca to try and get Suarez.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by danyjr on Sun May 05, 2013 1:47 am

Neymar's attitude is very much pass it to me and I'll do it by myself. He's not a team player, doesn't track back, his passing is average at best and he takes far too many touches before making a decision. He simply holds on to the ball for too long.

I agree that being selfish isn't all too bad. If anything, Barcelona need a player who doesn't instantly think "Where is Messi?" as soon as he receives the ball. One of the objectives for Barcelona should be shifting the focus more evenly to all attackers.

I want to reiterate people have been carried away too much by Neymar's dribbling. First, he is not the close dribbler everyone thinks he is. In Brazilian league he is often 1vs1 with a lot of space around him as opposed to Alexis/Pedro out wide with one player blocking the cut back and the other containing them. Other than that, Neymar's dribbling is mainly eye candy and lacks tactical means. Plenty of times I've watched him run himself into cul-de-sacs while he could have passed it to a free team mate in a much better position. Sure, when he runs at players with the ball it looks good but it doesn't yields into anything significant because he can't see a move or two ahead of what he plans to do.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Sun May 05, 2013 6:25 am

I agree with selling Adriano, injured too much. We can replace him as well.

Does anyone watch much French Ligue 1? I hear a lot of good things about Umtiti at Lyon who plays LB and CB, looks physically very strong, good with the ball and a solid defender. If he's not costing too much could he be a decent option? Particularly since I think we could get a decent price for Adri...

Would be happy with a new CB and an Abidal type player who can play 2 positions.

Filipe Luis I've been saying for like 5 years now lol, but doubt we'd go for an all out fullback. Though he is very, very good.

Also I'm interested to see what we do with Montoya considering his attitude has been questioned...
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 10:51 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:And can I also say, im not high on Reus at all. Hes a good player, but I dont see some special talent.

And Alex idea about Tello is a good one, but we clearly dont have that idea in mind, we as a club are obsessed with technical and tactical, physical is very much and after thought.

Its seen not only in the kind of players we produce, but the signings we make.

I think the Bayern game has shown quite clearly that the athletic part is very important.They were superior to us not just tactically but also athletically.We need a few super athletes in our team who are also good on the ball.

Never thought I would hear you say this. The ultimate purist I guess for the first time ever has shown signs of pragmatism.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Sun May 05, 2013 10:59 am

I don't think it damages a purist vision of football. Football is a sport, it requires athleticism. Its definitely part of the game. The purist knows this.

Its something I thought was exposed blatantly by Bayern as well.

One player I remember Alex really liked a few years ago was Thomas Mueller. I think he perfectly fits the player I'm talking about. He isn't a big oaf who plays hoofball which is what a lot of Barca fans have come to equate with players who have some height and muscles. He's a smart player, quick and technical, but very aggressive and very strong.

I think Bayern showed we need a few of those players. Not neanderthals like Chyggy, but some players who can diversify the qualities in our squad. Homogeneity of our squad is a huge problem right now.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 11:26 am

@The Franchise wrote:I think setting sights on Bale is pretty risky. He plays very differently...long shots, long runs, and solo-ism.

On top of that, aside from when moving in a forward direction I dont think hes a top player. Going backwards (defending) and stationary (quick thinking, small spaces getting the ball under control and making the pass in 1 or 2 touches) I dont think he is real good at, too many miscontrol leading to turnovers for him or the reciever for my liking.

So yeah, for me, I dont have the intrest.

THIS - agree with every word.

Neymar I am fine with but have just one major doubt. I have read before that he has a small bone structure due to which he may find it difficult playing the faster more physical European game. If we can work around that then I don't see any other major problems that cannot be fixed. If you think we can do this because we did it with Messi then that same comment that I read stated that Messi has a large bone structure and thus never faced this problem.

Or else let's go for alex's very dear Luis Suarez. Or maybe Sergio Aguero. Or Wayne Rooney. Or whoever else. After the Alexis Sanchez debacle I for one am not taking bets on which forward(s) will/won't work at Barca.

Although we should not buy a midfielder, just saying that while I have not watched too much of either player, from whatever I have seen of them, I would take Gundogan over Kroos.

Lastly in spite of his age I would take Thiago Silva over Hummels. The bigger concern is his injury proneness. Kocsielny is a good option. Mangala who I have not watched yet but from what I have read here seems the right kind of guy for us right now but as dani mentioned unfortunately we have the bad habit of chasing big names only.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 11:34 am

@The Franchise wrote:I dont know where these assumptions come from...he has said nothing but humble words about his ability.....because he got a mohawk and does step overs doesnt mean he thinks he has done it all.

Exactly. If anything he will be hungry to seize his chance in Europe and be recognized among the very best in the world. A few years later we could fear him going the Ronaldinho way but at the outset there shouldn't be such problems. Rarely if ever as far as I know has Neymar talked crap. Its Pele who has talked crap on his behalf but then any time Pele talks he basically talks crap and we shouldn't give much value to that.

Reading danyjr's last post, Neymar sounded like a young clone of Cristiano without the physical qualities. What are your thoughts?



Last edited by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 11:38 am

@The Franchise wrote:Nothing wrong with solo-ism...we need some of it really...but its a problem when you add it to not having a close space game, actual dribbling (rather than running in straight lines) and tons of long shots all only available in large spaces.

Cant you see what happens to our forwards? Why we are so dependant on Messi?

Those spaces in between fullback and centerback are being closed, they realise that danger of the off ball runners. They are happier to let the wingers recieve the ball to feet and try in the 1 v 1...Alexis, Pedro and even Villa are not doing it in the 1 v 1.

Very well said. Having a close space game is crucial. Otherwise a player, especially key player, is very likely to suffer in the present Barca and worse make the team suffer as well.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 11:43 am

@BarcaKizz wrote:I don't think it damages a purist vision of football. Football is a sport, it requires athleticism. Its definitely part of the game. The purist knows this.

Its something I thought was exposed blatantly by Bayern as well.

One player I remember Alex really liked a few years ago was Thomas Mueller. I think he perfectly fits the player I'm talking about. He isn't a big oaf who plays hoofball which is what a lot of Barca fans have come to equate with players who have some height and muscles. He's a smart player, quick and technical, but very aggressive and very strong.

I think Bayern showed we need a few of those players. Not neanderthals like Chyggy, but some players who can diversify the qualities in our squad. Homogeneity of our squad is a huge problem right now.

Fair enough kizz but to date I haven't heard alex talk about buying a player and elaborating on his athletic qualities. In fact I never even felt he gave athletic qualities much importance. Hence to me this seemed like a paradigm shift. Maybe I missed something somewhere though.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by futbol on Sun May 05, 2013 12:01 pm

60 million POUNDS for Bale is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. What would that make him? The second or third most expensive player of all time? Laughing

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by kabarca on Sun May 05, 2013 1:19 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@kabarca wrote:Our defense this season has been playing like little kids, we couldnt keep a clean sheet in any of the big games and conceded stupid goals on an almost weekly basis,so replacing our defense isn't really too much,Puyol is too old,Pique simple sucks and Alves will just have a different role where he is asked to defend less,Alba should be replaced with someone more defensive even though i like him a lot and he could take alves' role but from the left in the future.

Cavani is the kind of player who can perform many roles,he drops deeps mosty to chase down the ball and this is actualy something we need. I can easily see Cavani performing the role that Villa did against Milan but with more physicality..
So your solution is to replace our defense with one in which 3/4 people involved will have no idea how to play under our system? Also during the first half of the season everyone was talking about how Pique had found his best level again. Now he's back to being complete shit. Funny how that works.

As far as I'm concerned we can get Klose to play CF vs parked buses, and he would know he is only signed for that purpose. We don't need to spend 60m on a striker for that.

Actually you are right,buying 3 defenders in one summner might be littlle too much,maybe we should try Abidal again at LB for the rest of this season,if he performs well he is the solution to the balance between the flanks and buy 1 starting CB plus Marquinhos who would be rotation/future starter

Pique sometimes is WC but I am getting sick of his inconsistency,he needs to be more reliable, maybe he should be kept next season but if he has yet another inconsistent season then he should be shipped off.

I like the idea of buying a player such as close for the bench but we would still need two wide forwards,Neymar and Reus maybe(too expansive to buy both but we can raise funds by selling Fabregas,alexis,pedro,boja,etc)
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by kabarca on Sun May 05, 2013 1:24 pm

@The Franchise wrote:People waffling.

Pick 10 goals we let in at random, more than half wouldnt even be the fault of the back 4.

We dont defend as a unit, defence getting exposed to too much, thats why we let in goals...not the back 4.


I agree we pushh forwrd too much and the defense gets exposed too often but thats only 1 reason for conceding too many goals, the defenders still made a lot of mistakes and a better defense is something we certainly need
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by futbol on Sun May 05, 2013 5:03 pm

I can pick at least 20 goals out of the 65 conceded this season which were definitely the fault of the backline tbh. Just subtract Mascherano's own goals (Laughing), the huge amount of headers conceded after set pieces (Varane twice, Ramos, Bayern twice, Celtic twice) which are completely avoidable with a taller backline (this team never suffered so much at set pieces with Pique, Puyol, Abidal) and some Pique brainfarts like the one against Athletic Bilbao last week when Aduriz killed him and there you go. Then add Adriano who messed up the offside trap for Ronaldo's second goal in the 2-2 Camp Nou Clasico, Song's and Alves' mistakes against Sevilla, Alba's 2 own goals against Deportivo and Getafe, Mascherano misjudging the high ball in the Supercopa Clasico etc.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sun May 05, 2013 5:44 pm

@danyjr wrote:Neymar's attitude is very much pass it to me and I'll do it by myself. He's not a team player, doesn't track back, his passing is average at best and he takes far too many touches before making a decision. He simply holds on to the ball for too long.

I agree that being selfish isn't all too bad. If anything, Barcelona need a player who doesn't instantly think "Where is Messi?" as soon as he receives the ball. One of the objectives for Barcelona should be shifting the focus more evenly to all attackers.

I want to reiterate people have been carried away too much by Neymar's dribbling. First, he is not the close dribbler everyone thinks he is. In Brazilian league he is often 1vs1 with a lot of space around him as opposed to Alexis/Pedro out wide with one player blocking the cut back and the other containing them. Other than that, Neymar's dribbling is mainly eye candy and lacks tactical means. Plenty of times I've watched him run himself into cul-de-sacs while he could have passed it to a free team mate in a much better position. Sure, when he runs at players with the ball it looks good but it doesn't yields into anything significant because he can't see a move or two ahead of what he plans to do.

We been through this before, not bothered disagreeing with you again.

Thought you were talking about style, not quality...only reason I was willing to respond in the first place.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sun May 05, 2013 5:52 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I think setting sights on Bale is pretty risky. He plays very differently...long shots, long runs, and solo-ism.

On top of that, aside from when moving in a forward direction I dont think hes a top player. Going backwards (defending) and stationary (quick thinking, small spaces getting the ball under control and making the pass in 1 or 2 touches) I dont think he is real good at, too many miscontrol leading to turnovers for him or the reciever for my liking.

So yeah, for me, I dont have the intrest.

THIS - agree with every word.

Neymar I am fine with but have just one major doubt. I have read before that he has a small bone structure due to which he may find it difficult playing the faster more physical European game. If we can work around that then I don't see any other major problems that cannot be fixed. If you think we can do this because we did it with Messi then that same comment that I read stated that Messi has a large bone structure and thus never faced this problem.

Or else let's go for alex's very dear Luis Suarez. Or maybe Sergio Aguero. Or Wayne Rooney. Or whoever else. After the Alexis Sanchez debacle I for one am not taking bets on which forward(s) will/won't work at Barca.

Although we should not buy a midfielder, just saying that while I have not watched too much of either player, from whatever I have seen of them, I would take Gundogan over Kroos.

Lastly in spite of his age I would take Thiago Silva over Hummels. The bigger concern is his injury proneness. Kocsielny is a good option. Mangala who I have not watched yet but from what I have read here seems the right kind of guy for us right now but as dani mentioned unfortunately we have the bad habit of chasing big names only.


Bone structure? Bah. When I see Di Maria out there, it hardly looks a problem to me.

The speed of the European league..sure maybe..but that doesnt look a problem for Lucas at PSG.

Suarez is fantastic, I was with Alex those years ago in saying he should get him....something wrong with him mentally though, on the pitch he loses it.

Aguero..said many times, dont think hes very good when asked to play wider. Also plays for Man City and for me, is easily their best forward and perhaps player....going to cost more than we willing im sure.

Rooney? Dont think he is going anywhere.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sun May 05, 2013 5:53 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I dont know where these assumptions come from...he has said nothing but humble words about his ability.....because he got a mohawk and does step overs doesnt mean he thinks he has done it all.


Reading danyjr's last post, Neymar sounded like a young clone of Cristiano without the physical qualities. What are your thoughts?


Dont agree with him at all.

But the problem is no matter what Neymar does, in many peoples eyes he cannot win..I suspect danyjr with be one of them. Just look at Alex Song...he goes out of his way to criticise him, even when he barely does anything wrong.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sun May 05, 2013 5:57 pm

@kabarca wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:People waffling.

Pick 10 goals we let in at random, more than half wouldnt even be the fault of the back 4.

We dont defend as a unit, defence getting exposed to too much, thats why we let in goals...not the back 4.


I agree we pushh forwrd too much and the defense gets exposed too often but thats only 1 reason for conceding too many goals, the defenders still made a lot of mistakes and a better defense is something we certainly need
@kabarca wrote:

I agree we pushh forwrd too much and the defense gets exposed too often but thats only 1 reason for conceding too many goals, the defenders still made a lot of mistakes and a better defense is something we certainly need[/quote]

Yes, not saying it isnt. But as I said, put any 4 defenders in the world back there, we would still be a bad defensive team if we dont sort out defending as a unit.

Obviously we can all point out errors from our defenders, to repeat we need better defenders, but people thinking getting a new back 4 and sorting nothing else will help are in for a surprise.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 05, 2013 8:57 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I think setting sights on Bale is pretty risky. He plays very differently...long shots, long runs, and solo-ism.

On top of that, aside from when moving in a forward direction I dont think hes a top player. Going backwards (defending) and stationary (quick thinking, small spaces getting the ball under control and making the pass in 1 or 2 touches) I dont think he is real good at, too many miscontrol leading to turnovers for him or the reciever for my liking.

So yeah, for me, I dont have the intrest.

THIS - agree with every word.

Neymar I am fine with but have just one major doubt. I have read before that he has a small bone structure due to which he may find it difficult playing the faster more physical European game. If we can work around that then I don't see any other major problems that cannot be fixed. If you think we can do this because we did it with Messi then that same comment that I read stated that Messi has a large bone structure and thus never faced this problem.

Or else let's go for alex's very dear Luis Suarez. Or maybe Sergio Aguero. Or Wayne Rooney. Or whoever else. After the Alexis Sanchez debacle I for one am not taking bets on which forward(s) will/won't work at Barca.

Although we should not buy a midfielder, just saying that while I have not watched too much of either player, from whatever I have seen of them, I would take Gundogan over Kroos.

Lastly in spite of his age I would take Thiago Silva over Hummels. The bigger concern is his injury proneness. Kocsielny is a good option. Mangala who I have not watched yet but from what I have read here seems the right kind of guy for us right now but as dani mentioned unfortunately we have the bad habit of chasing big names only.


Bone structure? Bah. When I see Di Maria out there, it hardly looks a problem to me.

The speed of the European league..sure maybe..but that doesnt look a problem for Lucas at PSG.

Suarez is fantastic, I was with Alex those years ago in saying he should get him....something wrong with him mentally though, on the pitch he loses it.

Aguero..said many times, dont think hes very good when asked to play wider. Also plays for Man City and for me, is easily their best forward and perhaps player....going to cost more than we willing im sure.

Rooney? Dont think he is going anywhere.


Nice example of Di Maria.

As for Suarez, we will have to hire a psychiatrist to hammer into his head not to bite players on the field. More seriously what about him sets him apart from Sanchez so that we can say he will definitely succeed where Sanchez failed. Before we bought Sanchez I considered the two of them somewhat similar players.

Rooney was on the bench today as well. If a club really wants to sign him I say this is the right time to try.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by neuro11 on Mon May 06, 2013 6:59 am

I think the status of Rooney in Man U has changed after the arrival of RVP. I strongly believe a reasonable offer will encourage both him and team to be apart. Addition of rooney would be great as we know what he is capable of. Also he would be cheaper than Aguero and Suarez.
About suarez, i think he is a better version of Alexis. A better dribbler, better movement, strong and of course hardworking. The main difference with him and Alexis for me is, while alexis 90% of the time dare to dribble past the defender, suarez posses that threat. with suarez having ball, defenders are more concerned about getting dribbled while in the same situation with alexis, defenders know he would cross or minus to someone in 90% time.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Mon May 06, 2013 9:43 am

neuro, very nice comments. Not so sure about Rooney being cheaper though. One point you missed about Suarez is that he is a better shooter and finisher than Sanchez. Hard work and movement wise I don't see much difference. Better dribbler perhaps yes but at the time Sanchez was signing for us he was thought to be a wonderful dribbler in his own right. I didn't watch him for Udinese but he ended up as Serie A Player of the Season which means he must have been incredible. I watched him for Chile a few times and his slickness on the ball really impressed me. As for being daring, perhaps Suarez may do more, but I don't think Sanchez was a coward so to say before he joined us. It's this team that intimidated him I think. Could that happen to Suarez? Maybe not because he does seem mentally strong ( which is different from mentally sound Smile )
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Mon May 06, 2013 10:27 am

There are 2 issues with Suarez.

a) On the pitch he has a attitude problems Barca wouldn't stand for.
b) He's Liverpool's Messi. Probably the best player in the EPL this season. It would cost an arm and a leg to get him

Put the 2 together and the club probably wouldn't bother.

Rooney? I think he could be excellent for us, but yeah... not so sure he'd be cheap.

We are 95% going to get Neymar, so I think the 2nd forward is unlikely to be as big a name as that or the ones we are mentioning (Bale, Suarez, Rooney).

That would be a Galactico forwardline... and the wages would be astronomical.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Mon May 06, 2013 10:29 am

Indeed kizz that makes very good sense.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by CBarca on Mon May 06, 2013 5:09 pm

That wouldn't happen to Suarez, I can guarantee it.

Also, I love Rooney and wouldn't mind him at Barca at all, but where would he play? I can't think of anywhere suitable. Surely we can't force him out wide, and that's what we would have to do since Messi plays in the middle.

He CAN play out wide no doubt as a very talented player but what an incredible waste that would be and it would be another failure in the Barca "buy a player for one position and play him in another" saga.

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