Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

alexjanosik wrote:free
I cant see this move away from Cruyffism that you speak of.Could you please elaborate?

Well if you watched the ajax game, there was one team that was clearly following Cruyffism and it wasn't us.

We hoofed the ball from the back constantly (I read it was a record 38 times), we barely pressed or pressed awfully (we only recovered 5 balls in their field), we were counter attacking and disjointed with many players being more isolated than usually in attack, we still managed to have the most possession but marginally and vs a very poor team... etc.

Don't understand how you can say Ajax was playing more Cruyffist than us. They defended deeper, we had higher possession, higher short passing and less long balls. Obviously both teams had roughly the same philosophy but to say "they played cruyffist and we did not" is wrong in my opinion.

They are a worse team that's why we had more possession and they had to defend deep sometimes, but their style was clearly more cruyffist.

Hope the Rayo game was enough to make you open your mind. They had 55% of possession, better pass success and as much shots on goal than us.

We hadn't lost posession in an official game since Rijkaard.

About the style:

When asked about the debate about the style of the team Martino replied: "Annoyed? Not at all. When a team has achieved footballing excellence there will always be talk like this. Even more when the coach is not from the house nor Dutch."

"Best start to La Liga? What we want is to win it. It interests me much more to see how we end the year, although if we can keep winning then all for the better."

"We have perfection in terms of points but we are not close in the perfection of our style of play and it is evident that we have many more things to improve."

"For Barcelona possession is always important. It was the same case for Newell's. But we also have to look at the characteristics of the rivals, analyze previous matches and see if the same coach is still there."

"We analyzed some numbers and calculated that against the same rivals last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%.

"Last year Barca also had low possession only achieving 55% against Rayo and they had the second highest possession of the tournament. The rivals also play ball and their smaller pitch favors their pressing."

"There is a lot of talk of the long passes and the other day I mentioned a precedent in Rafa Marquez, but I also forgot to mention Ronald Koeman, that 23 years ago was here at the 91/92 season [the CL winning season]. There is nothing we did that did not already exist at Barcelona."

"It's not the case that all our long balls were through balls, some were also aimed directly at teammates. At Koeman's time, Giuly received more through balls but Ronaldinho was in the other wing who could play more with his feet. Any of our wingers can do both. With their quality, it matters little of the pass is of 5 meters or 25."

About Rotations:

"We will have to analyze how we reach April and March. We intend to reach the end of the competition with all players available. When the stakes are high, we will prioritize more need than amount of minutes played."

"The center-back is a position where traditionally I don't rotate as much because that part of the team gives you safety and allows you to attack with ease. It is also good that neither Javier nor Gerard have played much for their national teams."

Will Pedro be rotated? "It's very hard to rotate a player that just scored a hat-trick but it can happen."

About Nerman

"[Rotation] is something we are monitoring because after being in the bench for the first three games he is now actually the 2nd player with most amount of minutes after Victor Valdes in terms of minutes played for Barca and the national team. "

"Sometimes the press makes judgements on whether a player is adapting or not by the amount of goals they score, but Neymar has adapted not only to chance creation but also tracks back. I am very happy with his work and I keep in mind that he has had a tough pre-season due to the Confederations Cup, by a controversial entry to the team and by the trips with the national team. We are very satisfied with what Neymar is offering."

His knowledge of the club is amusing and sounds like he's been watching Barcelona for a long time. Here's hoping he brings Barcelona some success otherwise I feel he'll be criticised to death because of his tactical modifications.

I think a key point he mentions is that this is a team in transition ("there's still a lot of work to do"). The team is going from point A to point B and inevitably in this intermediate step it's not going to look as good as either the starting or finishing product. The value of his tactical changes will only be able to be appreciated or dismissed in the big games.

I like how Tata speaks, he is plain and very rational. Never thought I see a such plain and understandable argentine.

However, he should really start giving minutes to Bartra and I don't think he should try to convince us that he is playing the same style, when it clearly is not.

I don't think he once tried to convince anyone the style hasn't changed.
all he said is people are making a big deal of possession and his response was
"last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%."

and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

What he says is fair, but at what point should I mention none of our defenders pass the ball like Marquez or Koeman?

Also, it wasnt just the defenders going for long balls. Its starts with Valdes, he was kicking long very often.

I dont think anyone would say that going for a long pass is wrong if you cant play (because of the pressing) short, but we didnt even try to play short. Valdes was going for long quick kicks very often, clearly an instruction.

Come to think about it, lately when I watch the games with my father he keeps bringing up how surprised he is that even our Goalkeeper can manage to pass the ball so accurate when going long, mind you he doesn't watch too much football so I ignored it but I do recall one of our goals coming from Valdes quickly passing it long to Neymar then passing it to Messi.

Donuts wrote:I don't think he once tried to convince anyone the style hasn't changed.
all he said is people are making a big deal of possession and his response was
"last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%."

and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

How do you know if Bartra has a future at Barça or not if you haven't watched him? Are you a psychic?

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:I don't think he once tried to convince anyone the style hasn't changed.
all he said is people are making a big deal of possession and his response was
"last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%."

and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

How do you know if Bartra has a future at Barça or not if you haven't watched him? Are you a psychic?

Because none of the past three coaches seem to give him time of day in the field unless forced to or final 5 minutes of a wasted match.
..but no assume I'm a psychic.

clearly something is going on behind the scenes for them to not give him time, he barely has any competition on a spot where everyone and their mothers have been criticism Barca for the longest time.

A positive thing I must say is that he as a rotating policy. Xavi isn't playing every match anymore

Donuts wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:I don't think he once tried to convince anyone the style hasn't changed.
all he said is people are making a big deal of possession and his response was
"last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%."

and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

How do you know if Bartra has a future at Barça or not if you haven't watched him? Are you a psychic?

Because none of the past three coaches seem to give him time of day in the field unless forced to or final 5 minutes of a wasted match.
..but no assume I'm a psychic.

clearly something is going on behind the scenes for them to not give him time, he barely has any competition on a spot where everyone and their mothers have been criticism Barca for the longest time.

well said, mate. completely agree....

Donuts wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:I don't think he once tried to convince anyone the style hasn't changed.
all he said is people are making a big deal of possession and his response was
"last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%."

and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

How do you know if Bartra has a future at Barça or not if you haven't watched him? Are you a psychic?

Because none of the past three coaches seem to give him time of day in the field unless forced to or final 5 minutes of a wasted match.
..but no assume I'm a psychic.

clearly something is going on behind the scenes for them to not give him time, he barely has any competition on a spot where everyone and their mothers have been criticism Barca for the longest time.

Your argumentation is very weak. It's called an authority argument, which is not really valid. Also, it's not precise because with Guardiola Bartra was 19 and playing with the B team. So it's basically only one coach who didn't trust him (Tito) and 8 games from another one (Tata).

On the other hand, people who have been following Bartra's trajectory know that he is better than what he has shown for us as he showed in Liga Adelante when he was chosen the best defender of the league with 20 years or in the Euro 21 this summer when he was the best CB of the winning team, better than his partner and rumored signing for us Iñigo Martinez.

I wasn't sure were to post this, so I'll post it here.

Former Barcelona coach Cesar Menotti has stressed that Gerardo Martino will not be planning a revolution at the Catalans, but will continue on the same path as former trainers Pep Guardiola and Tito Vilanova.

Much has been said about the Blaugrana's more direct approach since the arrival of Martino at the start of the season, but Menotti feels Barcelona have made little significant changes under the 50-year-old.

"Tata isn’t trying to introduce a revolution. It’s about building concentration back up, keeping the philosophy going and not reinventing the wheel," he told Cadena SER.

"I think it would be madness to attempt to change a work of art like the one that Guardiola put together, but certain things have to be rebuilt.

"What Barca need to do is simply be themselves again."

Menotti then went on to dismiss suggestions that the Catalans have become too predictable in recent years and therefore need to change their style of play.

"Talent isn’t predictable. Let’s not confuse things. I really don’t like this talk of Barca being predictable," he continued.

"When I go to see [Spanish composer and guitarist] Paco de Lucia, I know what I’m going to see; but innovation can also exist within what is supposedly predictable."

Donuts wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:I don't think he once tried to convince anyone the style hasn't changed.
all he said is people are making a big deal of possession and his response was
"last year we averaged 66% possession, this year 65.8%. I don't think the key is in those 0.2%."

and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

How do you know if Bartra has a future at Barça or not if you haven't watched him? Are you a psychic?

Because none of the past three coaches seem to give him time of day in the field unless forced to or final 5 minutes of a wasted match.
..but no assume I'm a psychic.

clearly something is going on behind the scenes for them to not give him time, he barely has any competition on a spot where everyone and their mothers have been criticism Barca for the longest time.

Don't you feel just a little bit foolish now?

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:

free_cat wrote:How do you know if Bartra has a future at Barça or not if you haven't watched him? Are you a psychic?

Because none of the past three coaches seem to give him time of day in the field unless forced to or final 5 minutes of a wasted match.
..but no assume I'm a psychic.

clearly something is going on behind the scenes for them to not give him time, he barely has any competition on a spot where everyone and their mothers have been criticism Barca for the longest time.

Don't you feel just a little bit foolish now?

I think everything I say flies over your head.
If Mascherano were not injured Bartra would still be warming up the bench, let alone you don't even know what would of happened if Alba was not injured, for all we know Adriano could of played CB over Bartra.
I am glad the kid is getting minutes but it's only due to other peoples injuries, I still stand by what I say that he will be eventually sold or rot in the bench like JDS.
once we buy a real centerback, that centerback and Pique will start all season long, and if we don't sell Mascherano, then Mascherano would be third option leaving Bartra fourth and unlikely to play.
Also I'm glad you think Almeria really put Bartra up to the test.. lol I mean it's not like they are not in relegation zone or anything.. oh wait.

What you said is that he isn't good enough for us because tito and Tata didn't play him. Which was a non argument. And he is proving to be good enough for us at least as a rotation guy.

no what I said was something is going behind the scenes because three of our coaches never played him, not that he isn't good enough, rumors say he doesn't listen well to instructions and that may be the reason.

Donuts wrote:
and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

And what rumours and from which sources exactly? you live in Mexico ffs!

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:
and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

And what rumours and from which sources exactly? you live in Mexico ffs!

I didn't know you had to be Catalan to read the internet, I should of known better then to actually having a conversation with you.

Donuts wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Donuts wrote:
and about Bartra, I honestly do not see him in barcelona's future.
he and one of Mascherano or Song will be sold and we will buy a new world class CB and wait for a new better young la masia product rise for the CB role.

And what rumours and from which sources exactly? you live in Mexico ffs!

I didn't know you had to be Catalan to read the internet, I should of known better then to actually having a conversation with you.

Ah, the internet! Reliable rumours then.

Crackovia

That's actually amazing

Awesome. Crackovia are so goooood